£27,000 a year?

£27k is a very good starting salary, what is the average pay after 5 years?
£32k is the top band 5 pay

My girlfriend is band 7 and can prescribe drugs and is on £41k.

I've never even been to uni and I'm on over 50k in tech, it's messed up.

Nurse pay has been improved but not in line with where it should be sat at - they've had below inflation pay "rises" for ages the difference with this starting salary and other graduate roles is after a couple of years you would be in a "full" role as a grad having learned the ropes. The only way to do that in nursing is to enter management or a specialism. If you just want to be a nurse and help people on the front line you don't have a lot of options.

For reference a graduate area manager for Aldi earns 44k
 
* Please find the "Agenda for change" pay-scale currently governing Clinical and non-clinical practitioners pay:


Just to set the record straight:

Newly qualified Nurses and associated clinical practitioners have a Preceptorship when they start work. This means effectively they have a mentor to ease the transition from Graduate to Independent Nurse. The issue here is that the time- line and assessment of the preceptor depends upon availability of staff in the clinical area. Make no mistake - a newly qualified Nurse is making life-changing decisions from day one. They dont have an experienced practitioner following them around for 8 hours. Working with a patient at any level means you are professionally responsible for their care - from dispensing medication to completing structured "obs".

Usually a Nurse is expected to work shifts across 24/7 365 days a year. So-called "enhancements" dont reflect the work nurses do and dont cover extra costs of things like child-care, travel, cost of uniforms, etc. For example: a Mental Health nurse may be expected to work 21:30 - 07:30 nights for 4 nights - with "breaks" spent covering other staff - particularly "bank" staff - who dont know the clinical area, the patients or all the procedures. As a qualified Nurse you frequently have to rely on Bank staff to "baby-sit" rather than be pro-active in patient care. This is a scandal - but real cuts in wages and expenditure on the health service and putting profits into private pockets by selling the NHS Services to private companies - means there are huge staff shortages. It costs up to twice as much to use agency staff to fill the gaps as a permanent staff member. Private agencies know they are sitting pretty and make thousands [£££] a week out of the NHS.

Its not unusual for Band 5 nurses to end up running shifts and covering multiple clinical areas. A Band 5 can expect an increase of £40 a week after up to 4 years experience! A Band 6 is typically a Community Psychiatric Nurse [for example] working alone in the community - the eyes and ears of the NHS in peoples private environments - dispensing medication, making mental health assessments and MDT care-plans. Make a mistake and you have to account for it. Typically - a CPN can carry over 40 cases + other staff case-loads during absence and sickness. The patients shouldnt have to be concerned about staff issues, but the effect on their care is impacted: time can be limited. Face-to-face interaction can be replaced by a phone - call and the service becomes reactive - anyone tried contacting clinicians on the phone recently?

Because someones life and welfare is in your hands - the stress increases and you often end up working over to ensure the patients records are accurate and contemporaneous. Messages for Doctors and others involved in the patient care have to be recorded - so a request for a consultation and review of medication for a patient has to be passed on and reports - back to the MDT and other clinicians cant wait or left until the next shift. Meanwhile - there may be an "emergency" or urgent call from a patient, their families, friends - if they need someone to attend. There is often no-one else who is around to do the job. So its off out - sometimes taking hours out of the shift - whilst appointments are waiting......its no surprise that staff experience "burn-out".

In recent years there has been a trickle of experienced nurses, which has turned into a flood - leaving the service - taking with them that experience and knowledge. Leaving younger inexperienced staff to carry the baby. Some times, experienced staff will register on the bank and chose when and where they want to work. But contracts with agencies arent worth the paper they`re written on. Many go into other clinical areas. This has been going on for a good 20 years.

The abolition of the bursary was a ludicrous decision. Who seriously wants to come out of University with a Degree in Nursing, owing up to £27,000 in fees - having done three years of placements [which includes shifts] and usually working in between to pay living costs, including child care. Many qualified nurses with families now use foodbanks and support from Universal Credit to survive. Its a scandal.

The advent of Brexit and the Government`s attack on foreign workers has meant thousands of Doctors, Nurses and clinical practitoners leaving the health service and going abroad. The Government brought in the policy of foreign health service workers having to pay for NHS care in some instances - even though they worked for the service!

Millions goes into private contractors and services, from top to bottom of the service. The NHS has become a privatised entity. Some of us kept shouting about what was happening - but no one was listening. It maybe too late to reverse the privatisation - unless people get off their backsides and fight back.



* https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/wo...enda-change-pay-rates/agenda-change-pay-rates

Agenda for change - pay rates​


The following is a guide only to NHS Terms and Conditions of Service (Agenda for Change) pay rates from April 2022.
This pay system covers all staff except doctors, dentists and very senior managers. Each of the nine pay bands has a number of pay points. Staff will normally progress to the next pay point annually until they reach the top of the pay band. In addition to basic pay, there is also extra pay for staff who work in high cost areas such as around London.

Band 1 (Please note that following the 2018 pay deal, band 1 closed to new entrants from 1 December 2018).
£20,270
Examples of roles at band 1 - domestic support worker, housekeeping assistant, driver and nursery assistant.

Band 2
< 2 years' experience £20,270
2+ years £21,318

Examples of roles at band 2 - domestic support worker, housekeeping assistant, driver, nursery assistant, domestic team leader, security officer, secretary/typist and healthcare assistant.

Band 3
<2 years' experience £21,730
2+ years £23,177

Examples of roles at band 3- emergency care assistant, trainee clinical coder, estates officer and occupational therapy support worker.

Band 4
< 3 years' experience £23,949
3+ years £26,282

Examples of roles at band 4 - assistant practitioner, audio visual technician, pharmacy technician, dental nurse and theatre support worker.

Band 5
<2 years' experience £27,055
2-4 years £29,180
4+ years £32,934

Examples of roles at band 5 (includes many newly qualified clinical professionals) - operating department practitioner (ODP), podiatrist, learning disability nurse, therapeutic radiographer and ICT test analyst

Band 6
<2 years' experience £33,706
2-5 years £35,572
5+ years £40,588

Examples of roles at band 6 - school nurse, experienced paramedic, health records manager, clinical psychology trainee and biomedical scientist.

Band 7
<2 years' experience £41,659
2-5 years £43,806
5+ years £47,672

Examples of roles at band 7 - communications manager, estates manager, high intensity therapist and advanced speech and language therapist.

Band 8a
< 5 years' experience £48,526
5+ years £54,619

Examples of roles at band 8a - consultant prosthetist/orthotist, dental laboratory manager, project and programme management, modern matron (nursing) and nurse consultant (mental health nursing).

Band 8b
< 5 years' experience £56,164
5+ years £65,262

Examples of roles at band 8b - strategic management, head of education and training, clinical physiology service manager and head orthoptist.

Band 8c
<5 years' experience £67,064
5+ years £77,274

Examples of roles at band 8c - head of human resources, consultant clinical scientist (molecular genetics/cytogenetics) and consultant paramedic.

Band 8d
<5 years' experience £79,592
5+ years £91,787

Examples of roles at band 8d include consultant psychologist (8c-8d), estates manager, chief nurse and chief finance manager.

Band 9
<5 years' experience £95,135
5+ years £109,475

Examples of roles at band 9 include podiatric consultant (surgery), chief finance manager and director of estates and facilities.


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I'm trying to recruit software developers - there are graduates (who perform poorly in interviews and technical tests) with a years experience achieving £50k+, this is because there is demand for developers and people are willing to pay

It's a shame that this doesn't seem to apply to jobs like nurses. It is a real shame it has come to this, but I have to say I can't blame them one bit for striking
 
I'm trying to recruit software developers - there are graduates (who perform poorly in interviews and technical tests) with a years experience achieving £50k+, this is because there is demand for developers and people are willing to pay

It's a shame that this doesn't seem to apply to jobs like nurses. It is a real shame it has come to this, but I have to say I can't blame them one bit for striking
They can go private and many are, better pay and benefits but comes with less job security and many times moving away from nhs pension. But a good deal of my girlfriends team have recently left for a £20k+ payrise, mostly women in their 50's so lot of experience to lose.
 
Its amazing that the starting salary for a university trained nurse is just above the threshold for paying back their student loan at 6.3%. Now isn’t that a coincidence.
6.3% is the interest that accrues. Payment is 9% but you only pay on the amount above the threshold. Starting on £27k Vs a threshold of £27.2k means there are no repayments at first. After the first increment to £29.2k there would be repayments of 9% of £2k (29.2-27.2) which would be £180 per year or £15 per month.

It's rubbish they have such high debt, it's rubbish that anyone does, but the repayments aren't significant at that level.
 
Plus the Government is lowering the wage you start paying back your student dent to £25,000 from £27,295 so that will hit nurses hard.

Once over you would train to be a nurse, do your degree and get £6,000 per year bursary for doing so. You left the process debt free. Then the Tories got hold of it - now you end up in uptown £80,000 debt (which you pay interest on)!!

The Tories in 2015 thought that reducing the student bursary would ENCOURAGE more nurses into the NHS - it has done the opposite surprisingly. These crippling debts are causing nurses to use food banks and even give up the career altogether.

Yet again it is the Tories who have wrecked nursing in the NHS - I fully support them in their strike.
BSc Nursing in UK is a 3-year program, offered in over 50 universities in the country. The average cost of pursuing a BSc Nursing in UK ranges between 16,000-30,000 GBP
Which university are you going to??? £80'000 😂
 
6.3% is the interest that accrues. Payment is 9% but you only pay on the amount above the threshold. Starting on £27k Vs a threshold of £27.2k means there are no repayments at first. After the first increment to £29.2k there would be repayments of 9% of £2k (29.2-27.2) which would be £180 per year or £15 per month.

It's rubbish they have such high debt, it's rubbish that anyone does, but the repayments aren't significant at that level.
Try having that hanging over your head.
Its no incentive if you want to progress - particularly when there are 40,000 nurse jobs unfilled and up to 100,000 vacancies across the NHS and Anciliaries. The NHS in no longer a National Health Service: its is being cherry picked by global "health-care" corporations [particularly American] who also sponsor British Members of Parliament. Try looking at how many Tory and Labour Cabinet and front - benchers are sponsored by private health-care (?!) companies. Its frightening.
 
This is what a fully qualified nurse with a degree gets paid when they start the profession in England.

No wonder they have just voted to strike. For comparison, the annualized salary for someone on minimum wage is £22,600.

Dont forget they have to pay £150 registration yearly (an absolute travesty) and many have to pay the ridiculous car park fees at work as well.
 
BSc Nursing in UK is a 3-year program, offered in over 50 universities in the country. The average cost of pursuing a BSc Nursing in UK ranges between 16,000-30,000 GBP
Which university are you going to??? £80'000 😂

It was an article from The Nursing Standard: https://rcni.com/nursing-standard/n...s-reveal-high-cost-of-training-england-178511

I did say 'up to £80k in debt' but auto correct changed it to 'uptown' but I think you got what I meant. There are also an example of a student nurse racking up £70k of debt.

I am pleased you find it all funny though - bearing in mind we used to pay nurses to train 7 years ago and now we just laden them with debt.

It's alright for them to use food banks though - we gave them a clap during covid... :rolleyes:
 
BSc Nursing in UK is a 3-year program, offered in over 50 universities in the country. The average cost of pursuing a BSc Nursing in UK ranges between 16,000-30,000 GBP
Which university are you going to??? £80'000 😂
9k each year for a degree plus extra for masters, plus maintenance loan for living expenses which will be close to 30k for a 3/4 year degree. Could very easily be close to that figure
 
It’s a disgracefully low amount for such an important, demanding, and stressful job - anyone trying to defend it is an idiot or an MP. No wonder NHS staff are leaving in their droves
 
BSc Nursing in UK is a 3-year program, offered in over 50 universities in the country. The average cost of pursuing a BSc Nursing in UK ranges between 16,000-30,000 GBP
Which university are you going to??? £80'000 😂
9,500 in fees X3
9500 maintenance X3

That's a minimum, not including other debts incited because 9k is not enough to live off. 80k is a reasonable guess to the debt of a student leaving uni. Especially working class students who can't rely on the bank of mum and dad.

16k? Minimum fee charged for full time uni is 9,500 a year. Your figures are shockingly low mate.
 
Even if there were no tuition fees the maintenance loan on its own would be high enough that a nurses salary will never pay it off. Whether you write off £15k of maintenance loan at 65 or £60k of maintenance plus tuition is identical. It's called a student loan but it's really a graduate tax. It isn't a debt really. The high interest rate means nobody really pays it off.

It's a horrible system and just means this generation unfairly pays more tax than previous generations.
 
£27k isn't bad for a graduate salary on day 1. It's actually above the average. The problem with nurses salary isn't really the starting salary. The fact that progression doesn't go much further for the majority is an issue but the biggest issue is the responsibility, pressure and workload that they have to do for that salary. If they got the same salary but there was double the staff so workload was reasonable I think the salary would be acceptable, particularly the starting salary.
I don't think it's a remotely acceptable wage. I am a nurse due to start my first position. It's not the same as a new graduate, it's being qualified for a profession. Think about all the other professionals that start on so much more. It's also not a living wage with the way things are. I don't have children but if me and wife did then it would be a struggle (she's also a band 5 on the nhs). The pay scale is all relative to the funding of the nhs, which is terrible. Being qualified as a nurse certainly demands better pay. The decisions we make over very important factors alone would justify this. The environment in which we work is exhausting due to demands and lack of staffing and resources, make this even worse. Nurses are choosing to go private for the better pay, and therfore the private sector is better staffed allowing for better efficency and quality care. If the government paid better for nurses we'd have recruitment that meets the demands, and wards would be better staffed so on so forth. I worked as an aspiriant nurse during the pandemic which was at a band 4 wage (20k). Imagine having the responsibilities of a nurse whilst being unqualified, during covid, 20k is nowt. 27k is equally nothing
 
as a single parent without a pot to p!ss in I'd love to be on 27k a year. the nurses fully deserve it btw, and probably more.
Exactly this. It puts off people from doing the job. You fancy getting between 60-80K in further debt to get a job in 4 years time, paying less than 30K?
 
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