£27,000 a year?

I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it does seem odd that someone earning at least 27k has to use food banks. Regardless of how important or stressful their job is.
 
RedAsABeetroot said:
The problem is that it is a loan. What's the point in lending a load of money knowing you will never get it back? We should be massively reducing student loans and spending the money on something useful like paying to train nurses. There is no need for the high numbers of students we have now.
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We can afford to lend money to students who wish to do a subject of their choice AND pay to train nurses - it's not a binary choice.
 
Rofesleg said:
I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it does seem odd that someone earning at least 27k has to use food banks. Regardless of how important or stressful their job is.
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A single person with children could definitely need food banks in present times. Mortagage payments could have easily risen £250/month and energy bills risen £50/month. As well as petrol costs and general grocery costs rising. Someone who was making ends meet 18 months ago, could be in serious trouble right now.

Especially if they had existing debt already
 
As an intensive care doctor - the level of complexity of care that nurses are now required to be involved in is incredible.

50% of ICU nurses are expected to have an additional qualification specifically in critical care. They get paid no extra for getting this - it only results in increased pay if they apply for higher band jobs, which are falsely limited to save money.

I really think we should be looking to increase nursing pay significantly- let's make it an aspirational job that people from all backgrounds want to go into.

And let's expand their numbers as well. Increased nursing numbers and experienced nursing staff improve hospital outcomes. This is a fact. It should be a massive area of investment for this country.

Make permanent jobs really attractive and it would reduce very high agency costs. And bed days in hospital.

I really don't think there would be a better area for the country to invest in.
 
Matt said:
Not doubting you but I've never heard this before - can you elaborate
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It was quoted on Politics Live many times over the last week or so. I think it comes down to having an effective health service. If you have a happy and healthy population they are more productive in the economy. It also as an organisation provides income for other businesses supplying them, wages for NHS staff, rents on buildings, purchases of drugs/equipment etc etc
 
My daughter was fortunate that she stayed at home while going to Teesside univercity, she left uni with no debt

She went in to nursing as an adult nurse & then progressed to an emergency nurse practitioner, precribing drugs etc & now doing her masters towards grade 8
She was fortunate that she remained at home throughout her 1st years after enroling as a nurse
I'm aware others are not so fortunate, even parking fees at James Cook will play a big part of their monthly pay

A special skill that should be recognised to the lower scale/grades of nursing
 
Ravshoutsatbeck said:
As an intensive care doctor - the level of complexity of care that nurses are now required to be involved in is incredible.

50% of ICU nurses are expected to have an additional qualification specifically in critical care. They get paid no extra for getting this - it only results in increased pay if they apply for higher band jobs, which are falsely limited to save money.

I really think we should be looking to increase nursing pay significantly- let's make it an aspirational job that people from all backgrounds want to go into.

And let's expand their numbers as well. Increased nursing numbers and experienced nursing staff improve hospital outcomes. This is a fact. It should be a massive area of investment for this country.

Make permanent jobs really attractive and it would reduce very high agency costs. And bed days in hospital.

I really don't think there would be a better area for the country to invest in.
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There definitely seems to be a huge difference in nursing roles that are all covered by the same pay scale. I have tried to find this out in the past in my role but I can never get a straight answer; is there a significant difference in workloads between nurses in different departments? I know at our Trust we have nurses on wards, in A&E, in theatres, outpatient departments and community based. What do nurses in OP do? Whenever I have been to hospital myself for an OP appointment there seems to be a lot of nurses in the department that aren't seeing patients (patients are usually there to see a Dr, Specialist Nurse or Therapist) but there are loads of nurses. On a ward I see what they do, same in theatre and A&E. Is OP nursing seen as easier than the others? Are they over-staffed there or are there other things they are doing that I am not seeing? When the pandemic kicked off and appointments went virtual the nurses didn't seem to have a role anymore so what are they needed for during a face to face appointment that they aren't needed for virtually? I'm not talking about nurse-led clinics but clinics led by another professional where nurses are there in a support capacity.
 
MolteniArcore said:
I'm not sure a nurses salary is comparable with the starting salary of a graduate. A graduate might be entering the job market with little experience of the role they are entering. A nurse has basically done a working apprenticeship and has already spent many months doing the same job.

A graduate would not be expected to start work on Day 1 and hit the ground running making life or death decisions - opening themselves up to all sorts of consequences if they get a call wrong. I am not sure the same could be said for other graduates.

Plus the starting points are different: A nurse has gone from £6k a year to £0 per year and £60k debt. That's a bit difference but for the same starting money.
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On my pgce I was effectively in schools doing on the job training . My first placement had me in a school where expelled kids went in London . So sorry , I’m not buying the fact they worked in a hospital beforehand as justification they deserve a better salary

I was a physics teacher too , and without stroking my own ego too much I was told regularly I was good at my job . If these nurses don’t like the conditions they knowingly walked into , then they need to look for roles in different sectors
 
Boroboyyo said:
On my pgce I was effectively in schools doing on the job training . My first placement had me in a school where expelled kids went in London . So sorry , I’m not buying the fact they worked in a hospital beforehand as justification they deserve a better salary

I was a physics teacher too , and without stroking my own ego too much I was told regularly I was good at my job . If these nurses don’t like the conditions they knowingly walked into , then they need to look for roles in different sectors
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🙄🙄
 
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Boroboyyo said:
On my pgce I was effectively in schools doing on the job training . My first placement had me in a school where expelled kids went in London . So sorry , I’m not buying the fact they worked in a hospital beforehand as justification they deserve a better salary

I was a physics teacher too , and without stroking my own ego too much I was told regularly I was good at my job . If these nurses don’t like the conditions they knowingly walked into , then they need to look for roles in different sectors
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You`d be happy waiting longer for out-patients appointments, waits in ambulances outside A&E, closure of NHS Hospitals and leave people to suffer then?
Unless you can afford private treatment, attitudes like yours mean "I dont care".
 
Nano said:
There definitely seems to be a huge difference in nursing roles that are all covered by the same pay scale. I have tried to find this out in the past in my role but I can never get a straight answer; is there a significant difference in workloads between nurses in different departments? I know at our Trust we have nurses on wards, in A&E, in theatres, outpatient departments and community based. What do nurses in OP do? Whenever I have been to hospital myself for an OP appointment there seems to be a lot of nurses in the department that aren't seeing patients (patients are usually there to see a Dr, Specialist Nurse or Therapist) but there are loads of nurses. On a ward I see what they do, same in theatre and A&E. Is OP nursing seen as easier than the others? Are they over-staffed there or are there other things they are doing that I am not seeing? When the pandemic kicked off and appointments went virtual the nurses didn't seem to have a role anymore so what are they needed for during a face to face appointment that they aren't needed for virtually? I'm not talking about nurse-led clinics but clinics led by another professional where nurses are there in a support capacity.
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Nursing roles are massively varied but pay for all non medical health professionals are on the same agenda for change contracts so there is often not a lot of granular recognition of different roles.

A registered nurse is a band 5 without a specialist management role. This will be the majority of nurses in all locations.

Band 6 nurses start to have management responsibilities.

Band 7 nurses are senior ward managers

Band 8 Matrons/departmental managers.

The clinic nurses will generally have an organisational role in clinics, often checking weight, sometimes taking bloods. Chaperoning/assisting in examinations/procedures. I think it is easier than ward nursing, but they do not get the out of hours enhancements - most nurses feel they could not cope on a clinic nurse wage without a second household income.
 
Boroboyyo said:
On my pgce I was effectively in schools doing on the job training . My first placement had me in a school where expelled kids went in London . So sorry , I’m not buying the fact they worked in a hospital beforehand as justification they deserve a better salary

I was a physics teacher too , and without stroking my own ego too much I was told regularly I was good at my job . If these nurses don’t like the conditions they knowingly walked into , then they need to look for roles in different sectors
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I wouldnt expect someone with cancer or neurological health issues to arrange an appointment with a teacher. I would expect to see a fully qualified trained experienced specialist clinical practitioner. Im glad you enjoyed teaching physics. You use the past tense "was". So what do you do now? Why dont you teach any more?
 
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