Aitor - I'd not do it again..

I think by "wouldn't do it again" is really "not in the same way.." put himself under that much pressure to achieve.. not, not manage Boro again.. just be less intense..
 
BobUpnDown said:
I think by "wouldn't do it again" is really "not in the same way.." put himself under that much pressure to achieve.. not, not manage Boro again.. just be less intense..
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I get that. I still think it’s odd.

“I only had one managerial success in my career, and I’d risk everything by doing it all totally differently”.

As above, Boro was his perfect storm. By and large, I don’t think he was really cut out for management overall. It’s about the lows as well as the highs and he really struggled with the lows.

I AM thankful for a couple of good years under him though. There’s been little else since the UEFA Cup runs to celebrate to that level.
 
iamborome said:
I think it was a mistake Gibbo bringing back Stewey Downing, as it undermined Karanka's authority. It’s like Downling is doing the club a big favour by stepping down from the PL to help his hometown club and he has Gibbo on his side.
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karanka ballsedup the prem season it was some of the worst i’ve seen, signing players like valdez, espinosa, barragan to name a few i mean the latter couldn’t take a throw in properly, and this spanish contingent caused a dressing room divide which aitor had no control over
 
Downing gave some interesting insights into Karanka's personality when he appeared on the 'Under the Cosh' podcast. He mentioned that Karanka had kept a notebook, and had written down every time a player had *****d him off inside the notebook. That suggests to me that he may have been suffering from a mental illness during his time here, as it almost suggests that he must have believed the players were against him.

I think he probably did have an issue with Gibson signing Downing and held it against Downing. He also appeared reluctant to start Rhodes (another Gibson signing).

There are always two sides to a story however, and I have often wondered whether Downing was as innocent as he'd made himself out to be. It wouldn't surprise me if Karnaka was giving Downing a hard time, and Downing chose to retaliate by turning others against Karanka. I suppose we will never know the full truth, but I'd love for Karanka to appear on a podcast one day and give his perspective.
 
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parmoboy said:
Downing gave some interesting insights into Karanka's personality when he appeared on the 'Under the Cosh' podcast. He mentioned that Karanka had kept a notebook, and had written down every time a player had *****d him off inside the notebook. That suggests to me that he may have been suffering from a mental illness during his time here, as it almost suggests that he must have believed the players were against him.

I think he probably did have an issue with Gibson signing Downing and held it against Downing. He also appeared reluctant to start Rhodes (another Gibson signing).

There are always two sides to a story however, and I have often wondered whether Downing was as innocent as he'd made himself out to be. It wouldn't surprise me if Karnaka was giving Downing a hard time, and Downing chose to retaliate by turning others against Karanka. I suppose we will never know the full truth, but I'd love for Karanka to appear on a podcast one day and give his perspective.
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I agree, it would be good to hear the other side. But Downing’s view of him is pretty similar to Hignett’s and they didn’t overlap (as well as a handful of others).
 
atypical_boro said:
I agree, it would be good to hear the other side. But Downing’s view of him is pretty similar to Hignett’s and they didn’t overlap (as well as a handful of others).
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Yeah true. At the same time, I went to a speakers event at the Riverside a few years ago, Downing and Leadbitter were the guests.

When asked about Karanka, Leadbitter said "You're not going to hear me criticise Aitor, he was a top class coach and doesn't get the credit he deserves".

He said he preferred mangers like Karanka and Keane, who had intense personalities, whereas Downing mentioned he preferred manager's who would put an arm around you and make you feel special. He spoke highly of Big Sam and Martin O'Neill in particular.
 
parmoboy said:
Yeah true. At the same time, I went to a speakers event at the Riverside a few years ago, Downing and Leadbitter were the guests.

When asked about Karanka, Leadbitter said "You're not going to hear me criticise Aitor, he was a top class coach and doesn't get the credit he deserves".

He said he preferred mangers like Karanka and Keane, who had intense personalities, whereas Downing mentioned he preferred manager's who would put an arm around you and make you feel special. He spoke highly of Big Sam and Martin O'Neill in particular.
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Players like Leadbitter and Friend are a dream for managers like Aitor.

But, it has to be said, there’s probably a reason why Downing achieved 30 England caps and played almost all of his career in the PL, and they didn’t.
 
atypical_boro said:
Players like Leadbitter and Friend are a dream for managers like Aitor.

But, it has to be said, there’s probably a reason why Downing achieved 30 England caps and played almost all of his career in the PL, and they didn’t.
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I guess in Downing's defence, he never seemed to have any fallings out with other mangers he played under.

He admitted himself during the podcast that he's a placid lad and I can understand why he probably didn't like Karanka's style, but it may also have been that Karanka was trying to bully Downing.

I just can't help but wonder whether Downing chose to retaliate by turning others against Karanka. Having conversations with players behind the manager's back "He's a complete nobhead, you'll never guess what he said to me the other day".

You then end up with a scenario where players who had respected the manger the season before begin to form a different opinion of him, and Karanka may have sensed this, hence him eventually turning on the dressing room.
 
He lost his way.

I don't think his man management started off badly. The team spirit in the play-off final season was as good as I've ever seen. It was for most of the promotion campaign too.

I do think the pressure ultimately got to him and it affected his handling of the players.

As alluded to by others he also had a core of players who really responded to his management style. Gibson, Friend, Clayton, Leadbitter. Ayala until he started taking Februaries off. Nsue.

He also seemed to do well with a few players who've had issues elsewhere like Bamford and Tomlin.

He was probably a bit lucky we had most of those personalities at the club, because clearly his style wasn't for everyone.
 
I think he was a great manager who was learning.
His big mistake was his Premier League prep and recruitment. That season was always going to be difficult but the players he brought in were substandard and gave us no chance - whilst also dismantling the positives of the promotion team.

From listening the the Downing podcast, he sounded like he didn’t have the mentality to make the most of his talents, although be still had a great career. I don’t seem to remember him doing much on his second stint, which is a pity as he was outstanding when he first broke through.

Karanka had us playing as well as anytime I’ve seen the Boro, from the mid 80s onwards. He would fall out with players, normally Adomah, and needed to work on his personal touch, but given the culture he created and the results on the pitch, he was doing something right.

Quite sad the way his career has ended up. I expected more.
 
atypical_boro said:
In fairness the article is very clickbaity, but the quote “I wouldn’t do it again” is a strange one even in the context, because without having said that I don’t know if it would have worked out the same way, and he’d have got the Teesside public believing. And it was the only managerial success of his career, so surprising to say he’d have done it differently.

Anyway, I almost wish we’d never bothered going up either. 2016/2017 was harrowing to watch.
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Only 2017 was harrowing. 2016 we held our own and we’re on course for safety

From memory Xmas period we were playing okay, United had to come from behind to beat us and then Burnley beat us cos of a valdes howler. Think unravelled in the January when the pressure ramped up
 
parmoboy said:
Downing gave some interesting insights into Karanka's personality when he appeared on the 'Under the Cosh' podcast. He mentioned that Karanka had kept a notebook, and had written down every time a player had *****d him off inside the notebook. That suggests to me that he may have been suffering from a mental illness during his time here, as it almost suggests that he must have believed the players were against him.

I think he probably did have an issue with Gibson signing Downing and held it against Downing. He also appeared reluctant to start Rhodes (another Gibson signing).

There are always two sides to a story however, and I have often wondered whether Downing was as innocent as he'd made himself out to be. It wouldn't surprise me if Karnaka was giving Downing a hard time, and Downing chose to retaliate by turning others against Karanka. I suppose we will never know the full truth, but I'd love for Karanka to appear on a podcast one day and give his perspective.
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How does it suggest he was suffering with a mental illness?
 
ForssAwakens said:
Only 2017 was harrowing. 2016 we held our own and we’re on course for safety

From memory Xmas period we were playing okay, United had to come from behind to beat us and then Burnley beat us cos of a valdes howler. Think unravelled in the January when the pressure ramped up
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At the halfway point of the season, we were on 18 points from 19 games.
That 19th game was the defeat to Manchester United on the 31st of December.

Not an amazing tally, but very similar to plenty of newly promoted teams.

The 4 points in the next 8 games, and his reaction to that, are where the wheels started to come off.

But even then, he was sacked on 22 points from 27 games.
Thomas Frank and Brentford were on 24 points at the same point in their first season, and I don't think many people would question whether he could hack it in the division at that point.
Obviously 2 points better off, but that's just one result difference, that brain-dead 94th minute penalty give away from De Roon against Leicester would make that up.

I think it was Karanka's reaction to the pressure that ultimately ended things, attacking the fans after the West Ham game was a big warning sign.
 
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Cat’s Lives said:
From listening the the Downing podcast, he sounded like he didn’t have the mentality to make the most of his talents, although be still had a great career. I don’t seem to remember him doing much on his second stint, which is a pity as he was outstanding when he first broke through.
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Yeah I'd agree with that.

Downing was incredibly talented. Technically as good as anyone we've had, including the big foreign signings.

Just slightly lacking that drive and self belief the truly top players have. He should've been demanding the ball and looking to absolutely boss games at this level with everything going through him. But I don't think it was his nature. Happier being just one of the team.

Still had a very good career, but always a feeling he never quite made the most of his talent.
 
parmoboy said:
Downing gave some interesting insights into Karanka's personality when he appeared on the 'Under the Cosh' podcast. He mentioned that Karanka had kept a notebook, and had written down every time a player had *****d him off inside the notebook. That suggests to me that he may have been suffering from a mental illness during his time here, as it almost suggests that he must have believed the players were against him.

I think he probably did have an issue with Gibson signing Downing and held it against Downing. He also appeared reluctant to start Rhodes (another Gibson signing).

There are always two sides to a story however, and I have often wondered whether Downing was as innocent as he'd made himself out to be. It wouldn't surprise me if Karnaka was giving Downing a hard time, and Downing chose to retaliate by turning others against Karanka. I suppose we will never know the full truth, but I'd love for Karanka to appear on a podcast one day and give his perspective.
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Oh come on - Downing read the notebook? Just not believable

In fact, I suspect Downing would have trouble reading anything esp as Spanish isn’t his first language.

It’s been said before - Downing was untouchable at the football club.
Awful position for any manager (let alone a new one) when players (there were more than one) play on that.
That relationship with Karanka was toxic.
 
ForssAwakens said:
Only 2017 was harrowing. 2016 we held our own and we’re on course for safety

From memory Xmas period we were playing okay, United had to come from behind to beat us and then Burnley beat us cos of a valdes howler. Think unravelled in the January when the pressure ramped up
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Yes, you’re right. 2014-2016 calendar years were all pretty good (except the Charlton fiasco).
 
Alzi said:
Would his tactics still work now?

They probably would with the correct personnel but I do much prefer Carricks brand of football.
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Eight years is a long time. Fans at almost no club would accept Karanka’s version of Mourinho-ball now.
 
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