Aitor - I'd not do it again..

festa5 said:
More caps for England, becoming a key player for Liverpool. Possibly getting a move to an even bigger club (at the time) and winning more trophies?

I think ability-wise he was good enough. Obviously just my opinion. If you don't think he was that good, that's fair enough.
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Quite the contrary, I'm a big fan of Downing. I was just curious as i thought he made the most of his talents. With England i thought he exceeded what he could achieve due to the national bias against him as an unglamorous player despite being the obvious solution to the left sided problem.
 
I loved him for ages but the walkout prior to Charlton and the football we played in the Premier League, coupled with some of the things he said and did as that top-flight season progressed, made me really start to dislike him. As has been said really well already, he was an all-or-nothing character seemingly capable of extreme behaviours.

I would say he was exactly what we needed at the time he arrived. Some of the players signed under Mowbray who went on to become the core of the team under Karanka clearly benefited from his coaching methods and became Premier League players. Grant, Friend, Ayala, Gibson, Clayton, Adomah… they were second-tier players who consistently overperformed for us. The rest of the team he inherited were either shirking their responsibilities or just not good enough and needed to be shipped out. He did a great job of building a very good squad in his first two years.

That team he built in 2014/15 was the best one I’d seen in years, since peak McClaren, and only Carrick’s Boro of last season has been anywhere near it - or better than it - since then.

I’m glad we appointed him, his place in our history is assured. Hopefully he feels like he could come back to watch games and feel welcomed. He had to go when he did, actually he should’ve gone before then IMO, but overall his tenure goes down as a big success.
 
Humpty said:
Quite the contrary, I'm a big fan of Downing. I was just curious as i thought he made the most of his talents. With England i thought he exceeded what he could achieve due to the national bias against him as an unglamorous player despite being the obvious solution to the left sided problem.
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Whilst with us, there's probably some truth to that. To get as many caps as he did while playing for us shows how talented he was.

If he'd been a hit at Liverpool though, he wouldn't have still been an unglamorous player would he? Probably an element of (bad) luck involved too, they were a bit of a mess when he was there. But even so, I think someone of a slightly different mentality wouldn't have let that stop them from shining.

IMO he was talented enough to play for a title winning side. There's an element of luck to that, of course there is. But he was never really sought after by the top sides, despite his ability and stats that showed he was one of the most creative players in the league year after year.

Far less gifted players have achieved more.
 
FishofContemplation said:
I look forward to the day when we once again have a manager dreadful enough to get us into the premier league instead of all these brilliant ones who have done sod all. Carrick might be dreadful enough do you think? Fingers crossed.
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I loved Karanka's time here.. at one point I thought we would lose him to the likes of Real Madrid.. I was gutted when he left and thought he would fly with Nottingham Forrest.. surprised when he was linked to the Birmingham job and again thought they would go to the top. When he took the Granada job I thought he would end up as Watford's next manager.. Maccabi Tel Aviv another strange one. Talk of naughty steps and strops seem to follow him round and from that I deduce that he may not be the best man manager. Highly rated as a number two, I genuinely wish him the best success. Karanka's ere was the closest I've felt to the Robson days.. that early excitement and big results. Carrick is very much of a new era.. the excitement is there and we have seen some great results. Early days.. but I think we can do it.

As for brilliant managers that have done sod all.. Mowbray and Warnock.. each saving the club and bringing love and positivity back. Mowbray's tough could still be felt in the premier league with Friend, Ayala and Leadbitter.. Uncle Warnock with Fry, Jones and Coburn
 
newyddion said:
I think Karanka made the mistake of not backing Downing and treating him like dog dirt.
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Lets not look at Downing's return through rose tinted specs. He was absolute dogshyte for most of his return spell.

You can count on the fingers of one hand how many games he took a hold off or changed the course of a game. For me it was a perfect opportunity for him, to have a Merson type affect on the team, but it just didnt materialise.
 
Billy69_uk said:
Lets not look at Downing's return through rose tinted specs. He was absolute dogshyte for most of his return spell.

You can count on the fingers of one hand how many games he took a hold off or changed the course of a game. For me it was a perfect opportunity for him, to have a Merson type affect on the team, but it just didnt materialise.
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Downing was perfect in that role behind the striker, in the hole, he was probably at the peak of his career in that role at West Ham.. the promotion season he came in.. was played left midfield.. I think Karanka played him at left back at one point just to prove a point.. he came on as a sub (that might have been in the prem)

He was played mostly on the left anyway.. and in the prem and even on the right when we went back down.

Imagine buying Chuba Akpom and just sticking him on the wing.. idiotic.
 
Billy69_uk said:
Lets not look at Downing's return through rose tinted specs. He was absolute dogshyte for most of his return spell.

You can count on the fingers of one hand how many games he took a hold off or changed the course of a game. For me it was a perfect opportunity for him, to have a Merson type affect on the team, but it just didnt materialise.
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He was never in the same class as Merson, caps or not. He was great for us in his first spell, he had more movement and speed than his second spell, he moved to a new role at Villa which suited him, not so good at Liverpool and returned to form at West Ham. Rather disappointing in the main on his return, we were expecting the Downing from early in his career to return and he was no longer that player. He was playing amongst the poorest set of team mates in his career, which didn't help him.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
He was never in the same class as Merson, caps or not. He was great for us in his first spell, he had more movement and speed than his second spell, he moved to a new role at Villa which suited him, not so good at Liverpool and returned to form at West Ham. Rather disappointing in the main on his return, we were expecting the Downing from early in his career to return and he was no longer that player. He was playing amongst the poorest set of team mates in his career, which didn't help him.
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I have never questioned Downing's talent, what I did question at the time was his work rate, his commitment and his spirit or resilience.

All of these things, in my eyes, meant his good or even very good career didn't progress to a great career like it should/could have. Missed opportunites.
 
I'd like to see Karanka doing well..

Robbie Keane is his successor at Maccabi Tel Aviv.. currently 12 wins from 16 compared with Karanka's 12 wins from 23
Birmingham Karanka had 19 losses in 38 games, Pep Clotet made it to 47 games, Garry Monk made it to 59

Where does he go next?

Huddersfield? Coventry, Norwich? Watford?

Do we see him in the SPL? Aberdeen or Hibs? Do we see him go Dutch? Ajax look like they could do with a hand.

Do we see him go Dutch with McClaren.. team up with him at Man Utd.. might be the dream team they've been looking for..
 
newyddion said:
I'd like to see Karanka doing well..

Robbie Keane is his successor at Maccabi Tel Aviv.. currently 12 wins from 16 compared with Karanka's 12 wins from 23
Birmingham Karanka had 19 losses in 38 games, Pep Clotet made it to 47 games, Garry Monk made it to 59

Where does he go next?

Huddersfield? Coventry, Norwich? Watford?

Do we see him in the SPL? Aberdeen or Hibs? Do we see him go Dutch? Ajax look like they could do with a hand.

Do we see him go Dutch with McClaren.. team up with him at Man Utd.. might be the dream team they've been looking for..
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He doesn't. He's had his chance, and a very good one at the Boro. He failed pretty sharpish and has done so wherever he's been since.
 
newyddion said:
I mean we've had past manager who are good at what they do..

Manager: Southgate
Assistant: Karanka
Coach: McClaren
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That's right, there's a lot more besides but Karanka hasn't done a thing since, despite having plenty of chances.

To be fair he should have been bulleted from the Riverside before he was. It was clear from the onset of the Premier League season that we were going down.
 
Karankas football made us hard to beat, turned in some decent displays but at times bloody awful to watch.
Some good players to watch with Leadbitter, Tomlin, Bamford,Adomah, it was just I felt he could have taken the handbrake off at times and let us play.

But his style was effective, he was a very controversial manager to say the least when you look back. Despite me saying that his football wasnt great at times it was a lot better to watch than Strachan Monk, Pulis, Warnock.
 
atypical_boro said:
Players like Leadbitter and Friend are a dream for managers like Aitor.

But, it has to be said, there’s probably a reason why Downing achieved 30 England caps and played almost all of his career in the PL, and they didn’t.
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Downing got 30 England caps because his talent was in a different stratosphere to Leadbitter and Friend. That doesn't mean he had a better mentality that either of those two though. I actually think Downing could have got far more out of his career, I'm not sure the other two could have.

Neither Leadbitter or Friend had played any higher than the Championship for the majority of their careers but both were highly professional and extremely driven. I think Karanka came at the perfect time for players like that, his tough approach and attention to detail took them onto another level.

With Downing it was the opposite, he came here with a big reputation and I wonder if he expected to come here and be treated like a superstar. I think him and Karanka both came into each others lives at the worst possible time as they obviously clashed.

Karanka isn't blameless and he ultimately made a mess of his time here but I think there's probably another side to the Downing story.
 
Uwefuchs said:
Downing got 30 England caps because his talent was in a different stratosphere to Leadbitter and Friend. That doesn't mean he had a better mentality that either of those two though. I actually think Downing could have got far more out of his career, I'm not sure the other two could have.

Neither Leadbitter or Friend had played any higher than the Championship for the majority of their careers but both were highly professional and extremely driven. I think Karanka came at the perfect time for players like that, his tough approach and attention to detail took them onto another level.

With Downing it was the opposite, he came here with a big reputation and I wonder if he expected to come here and be treated like a superstar. I think him and Karanka both came into each others lives at the worst possible time as they obviously clashed.

Karanka isn't blameless and he ultimately made a mess of his time here but I think there's probably another side to the Downing story.
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Fully agree with all of that.
 
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