Aitor - I'd not do it again..

[parmoboy]

Oh come on - Downing read the notebook? Just not believable

In fact, I suspect Downing would have trouble reading anything esp as Spanish isn’t his first language.

It’s been said before - Downing was untouchable at the football club.
Awful position for any manager (let alone a new one) when players (there were more than one) play on that.
That relationship with Karanka was toxic.

Downing mentioned that he'd gotten the notebook out during the meeting which led to Karanka walking out, and started reading out instances where a Boro player had ***ed him off.

I'm assuming Karanka must have told them that he'd kept a note of every time a player had ***ed him off.

Regarding Downing being untouchable, I'm not so sure. He was very bitter about the way he was treated by the club in the end and for all we know Gibson may have spoken to senior players, who may have told him that they believed Downing was just as culpable for the breakdown in their relationship as Karanka was. Maybe it was Gibson inflicting a bit of revenge. Downing's Dad fell out with Gibson over it.

 

[Cardiffdaffs]

In fairness the article is very clickbaity, but the quote “I wouldn’t do it again” is a strange one even in the context, because without having said that I don’t know if it would have worked out the same way, and he’d have got the Teesside public believing. And it was the only managerial success of his career, so surprising to say he’d have done it differently.

Anyway, I almost wish we’d never bothered going up either. 2016/2017 was harrowing to watch.

2016/17 was one of the worst seasons watching Boro. Ill prepared and steadily deteriorated from a reasonable start to absolutely wretched. Karanka lost me at Charlton and I never had any likeness for him after that.

 

[SuperStu]

I just can't help but wonder whether Downing chose to retaliate by turning others against Karanka. Having conversations with players behind the manager's back "He's a complete nobhead, you'll never guess what he said to me the other day".

I don't think its quite fair to term that "turning others against Karanka". If AK was being sh*tty towards Downing, he shouldn't have to keep that a secret for Karankas sake.

If someone at my work was being bullied I'd want them to speak to me/others about it, as their colleagues. I've been a union rep for the last 11 years. You can't have a culture where the bullied are covering for the bullies.

 

[18MFC76]

Karanka seemed to struggle with the man management side for me. He would be fine with the likes of Friend and Leadbitter who were naturally very driven however as a manager you have to manage a large squad of players with all different personalities. Carrick seems to be brilliant at that side of management and you can see the respect every player has for him. Even the players not getting much game time.

 

[parmoboy]

How does it suggest he was suffering with a mental illness?

Possibly not a mental illness but certainly a paranoid and insecure mind.

Would you ever consider keeping a notebook and noting down every time a work colleague had ***ed you off, so that you could present it to them at some point?

Gives you the impression that he felt it was himself against the world.

 

[spanishman]

His dad died of cancer in September 2017. I am not sure how long he was suffering with cancer.

If his dad had it for a while then Aitor was having to manage the team while coping with the stress of that issue.

 

[festa5]

Downing mentioned that he'd gotten the notebook out during the meeting which led to Karanka walking out, and started reading out instances where a Boro player had ***ed him off.

I'm assuming Karanka must have told them that he'd kept a note of every time a player had ***ed him off.

Regarding Downing being untouchable, I'm not so sure. He was very bitter about the way he was treated by the club in the end and for all we know Gibson may have spoken to senior players, who may have told him that they believed Downing was just as culpable for the breakdown in their relationship as Karanka was. Maybe it was Gibson inflicting a bit of revenge. Downing's Dad fell out with Gibson over it.

Neither side came out particularly well in that and yet neither side really did much wrong.

It was a stupid clause to have inserted anyway, but presumably was needed at the time to get the deal over the line.

I can understand the club not wanting to trigger it. Downing was on stupid money and his performances didn't warrant it. The club were well within their rights not triggering it by not playing him. Would've been a waste of money.

But I can also see why Downing was aggrieved. He'll have signed it thinking if he was still here and getting in the side (which he was) then he'd completed his side of the bargain and was due the money. He was well within his rights to dig his heels in and refuse to negate the clause.

Shame they couldn't have reached a compromise without it coming to a head mind.

 

[parmoboy]

I don't think its quite fair to term that "turning others against Karanka". If AK was being sh*tty towards Downing, he shouldn't have to keep that a secret for Karankas sake.

If someone at my work was being bullied I'd want them to speak to me/others about it, as their colleagues. I've been a union rep for the last 11 years. You can't have a culture where the bullied are covering for the bullies.

True but he also could have gone to Gibson before it had gotten out of hand, or maybe he did.

 

[FishofContemplation]

I think Karanka made the mistake of not backing Downing and treating him like dog dirt.

I liked the way Karanka set up the team.. how he built on Tony Mowbray’s squad and some of the great moments we had in 2014/15 season.. however.. he was a dreadful man manager. Naughty steps and strops..

Never again as head coach I can more than believe. a strict professional number two

I look forward to the day when we once again have a manager dreadful enough to get us into the premier league instead of all these brilliant ones who have done sod all. Carrick might be dreadful enough do you think? Fingers crossed.

 

[parmoboy]

Neither side came out particularly well in that and yet neither side really did much wrong.

It was a stupid clause to have inserted anyway, but presumably was needed at the time to get the deal over the line.

I can understand the club not wanting to trigger it. Downing was on stupid money and his performances didn't warrant it. The club were well within their rights not triggering it by not playing him. Would've been a waste of money.

But I can also see why Downing was aggrieved. He'll have signed it thinking if he was still here and getting in the side (which he was) then he'd completed his side of the bargain and was due the money. He was well within his rights to dig his heels in and refuse to negate the clause.

Shame they couldn't have reached a compromise without it coming to a head mind.

The reason Downing felt aggrieved was because the club had promised him they'd give him a new deal if he agreed to sign a waiver, which cancelled the clause. Downing agreed to this and Gibson went back on his word.

 

[r00fie1]

The Charlton fiasco summed Karanka up for me: he stormed off a few days before and left the players in turmoil. It showed on the pitch in a dreadful display - possibly the worse since any under Strachan. Then he "came back" and I dont recall him apologising. Thats not the sign of a man with balls, prepared to fight his corner and put the club before himself. Never thought much of the bloke.

 

[Alzi]

Eight years is a long time. Fans at almost no club would accept Karanka’s version of Mourinho-ball now.

We were ruthless once we went a goal up but it was very frustrating when we went a goal down as no plan B. I wonder what our record is link under Karanka re. points from a losing position, can't imagine it's great.

 

[Alzi]

The Charlton fiasco summed Karanka up for me: he stormed off a few days before and left the players in turmoil. It showed on the pitch in a dreadful display - possibly the worse since any under Strachan. Then he "came back" and I dont recall him apologising. Thats not the sign of a man with balls, prepared to fight his corner and put the club before himself. Never thought much of the bloke.

Did Gibbo not lock him out of the training ground?

We went on a brilliant run when he did reappear mind.

 

[Alan_Breck]

This thread regarding the Karanka era and the Boro journey, to and from promotion to the Premier League, has been a really good read.

#UTB

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

The club made a very strong commitment to me. I felt they were backing me even though I had no experience as a head coach. I remember after the fifth game, the owner called me and I thought, ‘This is as far as my first coaching experience goes’. But that day I understood what Steve Gibson is as a person and as a manager. He said, ‘You think I’m going to fire you? You don’t believe that yourself. We brought you in to get you to the Premiership and we’re going to get you there’. I ended up having dinner with his family that day, which multiplied my commitment to the club even more.”

Except when the club and Steve Gibson needed him, he walked out…

A strange manager, brilliant at times. Not done it anywhere else though. He was indulged here. I think he found his perfect storm at Boro. His method of management was clearly not sustainable. Certainly a marmite character.

Perfectly put.

 

[Humpty]

Yeah I'd agree with that.

Downing was incredibly talented. Technically as good as anyone we've had, including the big foreign signings.

Just slightly lacking that drive and self belief the truly top players have. He should've been demanding the ball and looking to absolutely boss games at this level with everything going through him. But I don't think it was his nature. Happier being just one of the team.

Still had a very good career, but always a feeling he never quite made the most of his talent.

As a matter of interest, what do you think he could've achieved given what he actually did achieve?

 

[r00fie1]

Did Gibbo not lock him out of the training ground?

We went on a brilliant run when he did reappear mind.

I dont know the details, but the result and the effect on the team that day was obvious.
Niethere Manager, nor Chairman, should have let the situation get to that state. Can anyone imagine Michael Carrick allowing any issues to get to that level?

 

[festa5]

As a matter of interest, what do you think he could've achieved given what he actually did achieve?

More caps for England, becoming a key player for Liverpool. Possibly getting a move to an even bigger club (at the time) and winning more trophies?

I think ability-wise he was good enough. Obviously just my opinion. If you don't think he was that good, that's fair enough.

 

[Humpty]

Fo

Neither side came out particularly well in that and yet neither side really did much wrong.

It was a stupid clause to have inserted anyway, but presumably was needed at the time to get the deal over the line.

I can understand the club not wanting to trigger it. Downing was on stupid money and his performances didn't warrant it. The club were well within their rights not triggering it by not playing him. Would've been a waste of money.

But I can also see why Downing was aggrieved. He'll have signed it thinking if he was still here and getting in the side (which he was) then he'd completed his side of the bargain and was due the money. He was well within his rights to dig his heels in and refuse to negate the clause.

Shame they couldn't have reached a compromise without it coming to a head mind.

Little bit of information, Howson had the same clause in his contract. Again the club didn't want to enact the clause but Woodgate desperately needed Howson at the time the clause was due to come into being. The club relented and Howson got another year.

 

[Alzi]

More caps for England, becoming a key player for Liverpool. Possibly getting a move to an even bigger club (at the time) and winning more trophies?

I think ability-wise he was good enough. Obviously just my opinion. If you don't think he was that good, that's fair enough.

I'm not sure. Every other club than Liverpool Downing was excellent for so I think he reached his potential. I just think Liverpool was a step too far in terms of expectations and pressure.