At least freeports are a benefit, right?

[SmallTown]

Freeports are likely to be a benefit to deprived areas. The concessions now being given to freeports would not have been possible whilst we were in the E.U. Whether the freeports increase the UK GDP is debatable.
Is that simple enough for you?
You also betray the intolerance of the Brexiteers for any alternative view. One of the reasons I no longer discuss this topic is that I regularly upset people in both camps.

Again, it would be simpler to say no, there is no Brexit benefit. Just save you some typing

 

[Sisyphus]

Again, it would be simpler to say no, there is no Brexit benefit. Just save you some typing

If you consider redistributing wealth from richer areas to poorer ones of no social utility, then there is no Brexit benefit here. I disagree with this so I see a positive arising from Brexit. I know that heretical to you and many members of this board, but I try to review and extrapolate from the information I have ,rather than being blinded by dogma.
That's enough for me on this subject. Sadly, I often find discussing these topics with ardent Remainers or Brexiteers akin to a conversation with a Jehova Witness.

 

[SmallTown]

If you consider redistributing wealth from richer areas to poorer ones of no social utility, then there is no Brexit benefit here. I disagree with this so I see a positive arising from Brexit. I know that heretical to you and many members of this board, but I try to review and extrapolate from the information I have ,rather than being blinded by dogma.
That's enough for me on this subject. Sadly, I often find discussing these topics with ardent Remainers or Brexiteers akin to a conversation with a Jehova Witness.

How is a brexit benefit? If we could have had the Freeport's, in fact did, and done this at any time?

 

[Brian Marwood]

If you consider redistributing wealth from richer areas to poorer ones of no social utility, then there is no Brexit benefit here. I disagree with this so I see a positive arising from Brexit. I know that heretical to you and many members of this board, but I try to review and extrapolate from the information I have ,rather than being blinded by dogma.
That's enough for me on this subject. Sadly, I often find discussing these topics with ardent Remainers or Brexiteers akin to a conversation with a Jehova Witness.

Which richer areas will the manufacturing be redistributed from?

 

[Sisyphus]

Again, it would be simpler to say no, there is no Brexit

Again, it would be simpler to say no, there is no Brexit benefit. Just save you some typing

Please read what I have written. This benefit to the North East, not necessarily the UK.

How is a brexit benefit? If we could have had the Freeport's, in fact did, and done this at any time?

This variation of the Freeport’s would not have been possible under EU customs law.

 

[Sisyphus]

Which richer areas will the manufacturing be redistributed from?

Please read the latest ONS report on the manufacturing base of the UK. It also provides useful background information on the vertical or trade split. That will answer your question. I don’t want to appear antagonistic (that doesn’t help anyone), but if you are going to comment on this topic, you should really be aware of such fundamental statistics.

 

[SmallTown]

Please read what I have written. This benefit to the North East, not necessarily the UK.

This variation of the Freeport’s would not have been possible under EU customs law.

But we did have Freeport's, which could have been set up in the north east and (according to you) redistributed wealth there?

 

[Brian Marwood]

Please read the latest ONS report on the manufacturing base of the UK. It also provides useful background information on the vertical or trade split. That will answer your question. I don’t want to appear antagonistic (that doesn’t help anyone), but if you are going to comment on this topic, you should really be aware of such fundamental statistics.

I'm coming from an experience point of view rather than just statistics. I have a heavy involvement with this project in Liverpool and the expectation is that Liverpool Freeport will draw manufacturing and other business from areas such as Wirral, West Lancs and other areas of Merseyside. These are deprived areas of the country and will not contribute towards any levelling up, just shifting from one deprived area to another.

 

[Sisyphus]

I'm coming from an experience point of view rather than just statistics. I have a heavy involvement with this project in Liverpool and the expectation is that Liverpool Freeport will draw manufacturing and other business from areas such as Wirral, West Lancs and other areas of Merseyside. These are deprived areas of the country and will not contribute towards any levelling up, just shifting from one deprived area to another.

That’s a fair point. Do we expect to take business from the Wear or Tyne? Or will the possible increase in business activity attract more companies to the environs? My initial hope was that the business might be diverted from London and the South East, which is growing more quickly than the rest of the UK, and the models I have seen suggest this. I am genuinely interested in how this will operate in the Norrh West.

 

[Laughing]

Please read what I have written. This benefit to the North East, not necessarily the UK.

This variation of the Freeport’s would not have been possible under EU customs law.

Your argument about EU freeports versus what we are able to do now has been mentioned several times on this thread earlier, I know I talked about the differences. That will be ignored by many as it has been already.

It is largely a waste of time voicing a balanced viewpoint on brexit. No one cares for that. I admire your tenacity under fire though.

 

[Brian Marwood]

That’s a fair point. Do we expect to take business from the Wear or Tyne? Or will the possible increase in business activity attract more companies to the environs? My initial hope was that the business might be diverted from London and the South East, which is growing more quickly than the rest of the UK, and the models I have seen suggest this. I am genuinely interested in how this will operate in the Norrh West.

Even if business is drawn from London and the South East it won't be from Mayfair or Westminster but from other deprived areas. My point is that manufacturing tends not to be in rich areas as you alluded to in an earlier post. Calling the South East a rich area because there are rich segments is no different to saying that the North East is a rich area because rich people live in Harrogate etc.

 

[SmallTown]

That’s a fair point. Do we expect to take business from the Wear or Tyne? Or will the possible increase in business activity attract more companies to the environs? My initial hope was that the business might be diverted from London and the South East, which is growing more quickly than the rest of the UK, and the models I have seen suggest this. I am genuinely interested in how this will operate in the Norrh West.

Be interesting to see your "models". I can see, how in the north east, someone like you can justify theft from London but sounds like Brian knows the industry well and it seems like we are stealing from one poor area to another

 

[Brian Marwood]

Your argument about EU freeports versus what we are able to do now has been mentioned several times on this thread earlier, I know I talked about the differences. That will be ignored by many as it has been already.

It is largely a waste of time voicing a balanced viewpoint on brexit. No one cares for that. I admire your tenacity under fire though.

If the UK Freeports draw business from the EU then this will be a Brexit benefit. If the UK Freesports merely draw business from other parts of the UK then this is a utter waste of time and a failure.

 

[Sisyphus]

Even if business is drawn from London and the South East it won't be from Mayfair or Westminster but from other deprived areas. My point is that manufacturing tends not to be in rich areas as you alluded to in an earlier post. Calling the South East a rich area because there are rich segments is no different to saying that the North East is a rich area because rich people live in Harrogate etc.

Possibly, but in the South East the poor areas are the exception, in the North East the reverse is true. Any data will show you that; but I've also lived a couple of decades in both, so this is as much experiential as empirical.

 

[Sisyphus]

Your argument about EU freeports versus what we are able to do now has been mentioned several times on this thread earlier, I know I talked about the differences. That will be ignored by many as it has been already.

It is largely a waste of time voicing a balanced viewpoint on brexit. No one cares for that. I admire your tenacity under fire though.

I thought it might be, but thanks for your support.

 

[Brian Marwood]

I thought it might be, but thanks for your support.

I don't agree that it has been a waste of time, I've actually enjoyed discussing this with you.

For me the the big difference between the EU Freeports and the ones being implemented in the UK is one of incentives. Does anyone truly trust this government to handle incentives in fair manner that ultimately assists deprived areas instead of them using this as an opportunity to siphon funds into already bulging pockets which are least needing?

 

[Brian Marwood]

Possibly, but in the South East the poor areas are the exception, in the North East the reverse is true. Any data will show you that; but I've also lived a couple of decades in both, so this is as much experiential as empirical.

Sure, but it will be the poor areas which suffer.

 

[Redwurzel]

We need improved regional development policies in the UK. Compared with other similar countries such as Germany, France, Italy, Spain - the UK has its wealth and population concentrated in South East that has too much economic activity while areas like the North East are desperate far more economic activity. The current way of working is inefficient and increases wealth and income inequality. It also causes social problems as the young leave the North East and leave behind elderly relatives, the young people left behind see limited opportunities which leds to social problems too. The policies fo the EU did not have a dramatic effect on the North East that I saw, but I am sure others may say the area boomed from 1993 onwards.

Ref Merseyside : Ford Halewood and Vauxhall at Ellesmere Port would never had set manufacturing plants there without been forced to by UK Governments and without major monetary incentives. Those jobs would have probably have gone to Dagenham, Southampton or Luton.

 

[Sisyphus]

I don't agree that it has been a waste of time, I've actually enjoyed discussing this with you.

For me the the big difference between the EU Freeports and the ones being implemented in the UK is one of incentives. Does anyone truly trust this government to handle incentives in fair manner that ultimately assists deprived areas instead of them using this as an opportunity to siphon funds into already bulging pockets which are least needing?

Thanks and perhaps good to conclude on a point of total agreement regarding this government. Nonetheless, I'm still optimistic that the new intake of Tories will prevent the grandees from replicating what happened when rail and the utilities were sold.

 

[Laughing]

I don't agree that it has been a waste of time, I've actually enjoyed discussing this with you.

For me the the big difference between the EU Freeports and the ones being implemented in the UK is one of incentives. Does anyone truly trust this government to handle incentives in fair manner that ultimately assists deprived areas instead of them using this as an opportunity to siphon funds into already bulging pockets which are least needing?

They are designed to attract manufacturing investment from overseas into a freeports area so that raw materials can be brought in tariff free and manufacturing happens in the freeports area and the finished goods are then exported, with, generally, lower tarrifs than the materials have imposed.

That's their function. That could, if implemented correctly, bring jobs that currently don't exist, into the uk.