Wiseman_Vaughn
Well-known member
I didn't know that! I just presumed because of what was happening in the west, that it must be in decline.
So Religion is going to be around for he foreseeable
Ban religion
- Thread starter alanmoodysdog
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So Religion is going to be around for he foreseeable
BoroMart
Well-known member
It's no secret that I'm a very strong atheist and believe many of the worlds problems are caused by religion. But people have the right to worship and prey to whatever sky god they choose, and I'll fight for that right despite it being a pack of nonsense in my eyes.
Belief systems as an individual concept should be accepted as free will and free speech. The problems arise when someone creates a system to govern other peoples belief systems and profits off it. Be it the Catholic Church with it's seat at the UN, the Iranian Ayatollah's political control or the Church of England and it's billions of pounds of assets, protected by extraordinary, unethical and anti-democratic access to the state.
The influence of churches, historically and current seats of power and wealth, should be massively restricted. For some reason it's seen as taboo to question why they are registered charities, but why the hell are they? Lots of commercial businesses give to charity but aren't given charitable status. Selling 'salvation' is a commercial action and has funded huge assets for religions, tax it, and create governance about how they can sell their wares.
Belief systems as an individual concept should be accepted as free will and free speech. The problems arise when someone creates a system to govern other peoples belief systems and profits off it. Be it the Catholic Church with it's seat at the UN, the Iranian Ayatollah's political control or the Church of England and it's billions of pounds of assets, protected by extraordinary, unethical and anti-democratic access to the state.
The influence of churches, historically and current seats of power and wealth, should be massively restricted. For some reason it's seen as taboo to question why they are registered charities, but why the hell are they? Lots of commercial businesses give to charity but aren't given charitable status. Selling 'salvation' is a commercial action and has funded huge assets for religions, tax it, and create governance about how they can sell their wares.
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BoroMart
Well-known member
Isn't that just a reflection of of global population growth projections?
8 billion people today, projection is 9.7b in 2050. It's still about 33% of people......although in europe I would question that. Taking this country on census people who never go to church and don't believe in god still put themselves down as christian. In some countries being an atheist will see you hounded out by your peers.
It's actually fairly static as a religion, When you also cnsidering the push to enlist people into christianity in India and sub-saharan Africa and the birth rates in those counties, then it's numerical growth is easily explained, it's just found a hotbed in population growth hotspots. This is of course often the case, as poorer parts of the world have population spikes, and poorer populations are more susceptible to religion.
Frankie Lee
Well-known member
Isn’t that what a decent human being does anyways? People shouldn’t need religion to live by those standards.
Frozen Horse
Well-known member
I think the main problem is that religious fundamentalists don't necessarily follow the civil law anyway, or regard it as secondary to religious teaching.
Certainly no terrorist would be dissuaded by their religion being against the law, and the risk is you create more extremists as a result.
I'd quite like to prohibit religious teaching below a certain age; I think young minds are too impressionable to engage is discussion without being led. I think this position is subject to the same arguments as above though.
BoroMart
Well-known member
very true, and also we have to balance out that with how organised religion has often got people to live their lives against those standards. No religion is free from pushing negative behaviour in its followers.
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northriding
Well-known member
Ultimately, it's about the love, rather than the letter of the religion itself.
I have no problem with those who don't believe, but I do have a massive issue with sanctimonious hyprocrites who use the name of Yeshua/Jesus for ill-gotten gain. Some of which BoroMart has touched on.
It would make the world a much better place.
I watched some talk show snippet from USA about the new Speaker of the House. They showed an interview where he was asked about his views and rules for life and he told them to read the bible because it is all in there. Beggars belief that people can think this way in the 21st century.
I am ok with people believing in fairy stories so long as it doesnt harm anybody else but they shouldnt be allowed anywhere near positions in government.
I watched some talk show snippet from USA about the new Speaker of the House. They showed an interview where he was asked about his views and rules for life and he told them to read the bible because it is all in there. Beggars belief that people can think this way in the 21st century.
I am ok with people believing in fairy stories so long as it doesnt harm anybody else but they shouldnt be allowed anywhere near positions in government.
Steer
Well-known member
I cant speak for all Churches or institutions, but the one I know about does loads of stuff for the community, including running foodbanks (especially during Covid) and supporting various other groups including victims of domestic abuse and drug addicts / homeless and also runs parent toddler groups etc. I am talking about a normal run of the mill church, not the higher end stuff that I know little about. It seems right that that is treated as a charity.
The Card Cheat
Well-known member
That is true, but all kinds of ideologies have done exactly the same thing, religious or otherwise. Sometimes the most irreligious regimes like Russia and China have been by far the most brutal abusive and extreme.
It's not religion, it's humans.
BoroMart
Well-known member
those acts are charitable, but it will be part of a broader church and will have income that is going on assets.
I have no doubt there are many well intentioned vicars, and priests, and rabbi etc. on an individual basis, that doesn't stop the institutes from being corporate money making, tax avoiding hypocrites. Anyway it shouldn't require charity to resolve these issues it's the governments job to do that. We used to have surestart now a church helps, we used to have homeless shelters and drug abuse clinics, now clergy that aren't really trained to resolve those issues at root cause are getting involved. Good intentions or otherwise, it isn't really the right approach.
DonTheKing
Well-known member
Religion not an issue it's greed.
The_Unicorn
Well-known member
I'd quite like to prohibit religious teaching below a certain age; I think young minds are too impressionable to engage is discussion without being led. I think this position is subject to the same arguments as above though.
Not sure about this, by the age of 10, I wouldn't say I didn't believe in god however, I didn't believe in religion. Could be my parents were very strong protestants, both my sisters were sunday school teachers, the eldest (14 years older than me, so when I was 6 i think) married a Catholic and converted to Catholicsm which I know from overheard conversation broke my parents hearts and although they never tried to stop the wedding were uncomfortable going in to a Catholic church. This being the sixties and watching the start of the 'Troubles' also probably influenced me a lot I think. I then upset them at 11 when I steadfastly refused to be confirmed, first time I think I had really dug my heels in against them though I think for a long time they thought I would follow my brother (16 years plder than me) who had also refused confirmation but did so once he joined the RN (I did join RN but never changed my stance on religion). All my siblings (3 of them) married Catholics and seeing the hurt this caused my parents re-enforced my thoughts each time.
Not sure that makes rotal sense but bringing up some old memories as I type.
Not sure about this, by the age of 10, I wouldn't say I didn't believe in god however, I didn't believe in religion. Could be my parents were very strong protestants, both my sisters were sunday school teachers, the eldest (14 years older than me, so when I was 6 i think) married a Catholic and converted to Catholicsm which I know from overheard conversation broke my parents hearts and although they never tried to stop the wedding were uncomfortable going in to a Catholic church. This being the sixties and watching the start of the 'Troubles' also probably influenced me a lot I think. I then upset them at 11 when I steadfastly refused to be confirmed, first time I think I had really dug my heels in against them though I think for a long time they thought I would follow my brother (16 years plder than me) who had also refused confirmation but did so once he joined the RN (I did join RN but never changed my stance on religion). All my siblings (3 of them) married Catholics and seeing the hurt this caused my parents re-enforced my thoughts each time.
Not sure that makes rotal sense but bringing up some old memories as I type.
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Frankie Lee
Well-known member
I don’t mind my little one being taught religious education in primary school. I quite like the idea of her believing in heaven etc. I want to preserve her innocence as long as possible, because there is plenty of time for her to find out about the realities of life and to make her own mind up.
newyddion
Well-known member
Which bible?
The image on the Turin Shroud was painted with a dilute solution of red ochre pigment in a gelatin medium..
BoroMart
Well-known member
That's one way to look at it, and an argument I've heard a lot. Mine were also taught about god, and I'm glad mine both didn't believe in god and heaven when their mum died. They were 7 and 9 and if they believed in a god they'd be blaming him for taking their mum away, 10 years of resenting some fictional being would help no one. 10 years of thinking well at least Mums in a nice place then finding out she isn't would b soul crushing. Instead of thinking that death is the gateway to some beautiful better world, they've grown up wanting to live in this one fully.
coluka
Well-known member
Religion isn’t the problem in itself. It is often criminals hiding under the umbrella of religion to carry out inhumane terrorist acts all the way down to petty criminal acts, some governments even use it as a cover for power and control over the masses. The world is full of devout religious folk who pick and choose which elements from teachings they adopt and which they don’t but are happy to join in with attacks on other people with a different view. You can look within Northern Ireland to see how religion was misused by terrorists.
Frankie Lee
Well-known member
I’m not religious in the slightest. I can’t imagine how I’d deal with something as horrible as that mate. I was more thinking along the lines of it being a comfort when a goldfish dies for example.
Frozen Horse
Well-known member
I think it's also worth remembering that churches and organised religions are a major problem for totalitarian government's: they represent a focal point for leadership independent of the state.
The state has been the problem, and religion a force for change on occasions in history.
ThePrisoner
Well-known member
"The English Established Church will more readily pardon an attack on 38 of its 39 articles than on 1/39 of its income"
Karl Marx
Karl Marx