Best performance of the season with 3/13 on the pitch

[coluka]

Said absolutely no one. All I would say is, it was a pretty decent performance and an enjoyable game to watch. I'm sure you can find some optimistic soul that is now confident that automatic promotion is assured but most of us are simply enjoying the win. We're on the internet, all opinions are available.

Ah the old ‘lets take one sentence and ignore the main content and context trick’. Bravo though you have then used different words to say some of what I said about Saturday and then the new players in the squad who may or may not be anything, you even agreed several are not ready and were thrown in…. Why were they? Because we failed to recruit much outfield experience, Carrick had little choice.

Surely people get sick of trying to defend how poor the recruitment has been, not just the last window, oh, and the only league win was not down to this years recruitment in the main was it! If you don’t agree, thats fine ignore carry on barking up the wrong tree. Nobody moaned about January recruitment as Ramsey and Archer were quality. Recruit quality = positivity, good football. Recruit projects = what we got, players not as yet fit for the challenge.

Wise people call each game as they see it, each performance as they see it. Lots of people, praise the team when appropriate and raise concern when it is poor, thats realism (the attitude or practice of accepting a situation as it is and being prepared to deal with it accordingly). I put the definition in given your sarcastic attempt to belittle the word in replying to another poster.

Rose tinted - (used in reference to a naively optimistic or idealistic viewpoint).

 

[newyddion]

I was thinking the same thing yesterday, five of our new signings were on the bench.
Latte Lath... will have another chance, and could play as a 10. I like his movement off the ball.

Signed as a replacement for Akpom.. who played as a no. 10

Rogers... Not a striker, not a good No 10

Left winger.. plays like Tavernier

Silvera.... Div 1 standard, way behind Jones.

Silvera replaces.. Ste Walker.. looks promising

Engel.... Not a Championship player, says it all when a Midfielder takes your place...

a £10m midfielder who has experience in the championship playing left back

Greenwood.... Wow I now know why dirty Leeds allowed him to join us.

Loan with a obligation to buy? (made 16 prem appearances)

All the above should and will start in the cup on Tuesday night, but not sure when they will start a league game, maybe Lath as a 10

fingers crossed!

 

[indeedido]

5 of Saturday’s team were signed under Scott. As were the 3 subs that came on. 3 were academy graduates. Jones was plucked from non-league and presumably signed off by someone from the academy set-up. Howson was Monk, Crooks was Warnock.

So the man appointed to oversee a ‘new direction’ for the club has been in position for 4 transfer windows and we’ve signed half a new team, who all play every week, plus enjoyed watching Steffen, Giles, Archer and Ramsey.

We’ve had some signings that haven’t worked but which club hasn’t.

It’s far too early to judge the new players. So many of them are young, picked up on the cheap to hopefully develop and either sell on or become senior players for the club, or both.

Surely people get sick of posting about how sh*t they think the recruitment is? Even after wins now. Drawing arbitrary lines to try and make a point about something. I don’t get it, I have to be honest

"Even after wins".
I started the thread saying how chuffed I was with the win, the performance and the atmosphere. I am also very supportive of Carrick.
You're right though, I do get sick of how sh*t the recruitment is and the endless excuses posted on Scott's behalf.
He has been in position for 4 windows and has signed 20 players exc the loan players who have returned to their parent clubs. 18 are currently here (Boyd Munce and Hoppe are gone).
We only have a 25 man squad.
How can the state of our squad not be down to him?

it was a biased extrapolation of a deliberately limited set of data to reinforce an argument that the OP is having with himself.

No it wasn't, I simply posted facts.
I'm not having an argument with myself.
I later expanded to cover the whole of Scott's time here - the 4 windows - where he has signed 20 players, 18 of who are in our current first team squad.
Only 5 of those 20 signed in the last 4 windows started on saturday.
Only 3 of the 13 signed in the last 2 widows started on saturday.
Only 3 of the 12 players signed in the last window started in saturday.

 

[coluka]

Also the three subs that came on - Smith, Greenwood and Silvera, all signed under Scott - are trusted so little by Carrick and his staff that he brought them on to try and hold onto to a lead and see out a game against a newly-relegated team whose budget blows ours of the water. If he didn’t trust them he wouldn’t have done that.

Seriously, who else did he have at his disposal to come on for the players he felt he needed to take off?

Smith our first choice experienced RB replacing an injured lad filling in at RB, what else could he have done in the 73 minute, put a CB on in McNair when a RB is on the bench? I don’t think Tommy needed a lot of scouting and isn’t short of trust from most people and fans.

Silvera came on in the 91st minutes for Jones who had run himself into the ground, who else would he bring on in that wide role with pace, as fresh legs, literally a few minutes?

Crooks substitution, he had a choice of Rogers or Greenwood, both inexperienced, toss of a coin really?

Trust or necessity, you pays your money and takes your choice. I’d say necessity and he has to keep giving minutes otherwise how do you know whether anyone can improve. Trust has to be earned, that builds through minutes on the pitch here and there, and sometimes it has a bit of hope thrown in too.

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

"Even after wins".
I started the thread saying how chuffed I was with the win, the performance and the atmosphere. I am also very supportive of Carrick.
You're right though, I do get sick of how sh*t the recruitment is and the endless excuses posted on Scott's behalf.
He has been in position for 4 windows and has signed 20 players exc the loan players who have returned to their parent clubs. 18 are currently here (Boyd Munce and Hoppe are gone).
We only have a 25 man squad.
How can the state of our squad not be down to him?

No it wasn't, I simply posted facts.
I'm not having an argument with myself.
I later expanded to cover the whole of Scott's time here - the 4 windows - where he has signed 20 players, 18 of who are in our current first team squad.
Only 5 of those 20 signed in the last 4 windows started on saturday.
Only 3 of the 13 signed in the last 2 widows started on saturday.
Only 3 of the 12 players signed in the last window started in saturday.

Point me to the excuses.

Saying we should be more patient is just not the same thing as making an excuse?

As posted earlier, how many clubs are signing 9, 10, 11, 12 players and naming ALL of them in their team straight away?

5 of the team that won on Saturday and the 3 subs that came on were signed under the fella you’ve spent months slaughtering. 8 of the 14 used arrived under him. The manager and his staff arrived under him. These are the facts.

Does that mean I think Scott is a genius? No it doesn’t. Do I think he’s getting unfair treatment on here? At times, most definitely. But it’s too early judge the players signed in the summer. Slag him for last season if you like, or the season before. But this season, it’s barely started.

All I’ve been doing is saying maybe we should be patient while players settle in. It’s a carbon copy of last season. People slagging all and sundry and talking about relegation in September. It’s madness IMO.

 

[indeedido]

Point me to the excuses.

Saying we should be more patient is just not the same thing as making an excuse?

As posted earlier, how many clubs are signing 9, 10, 11, 12 players and naming ALL of them in their team straight away?

5 of the team that won on Saturday and the 3 subs that came on were signed under the fella you’ve spent months slaughtering. 8 of the 14 used arrived under him. The manager and his staff arrived under him. These are the facts.

All I’ve been doing is saying maybe we should be patient while players settle in. It’s a carbon copy of last season. People slagging all and sundry and talking about relegation in September.

18 of the 26 players listed as First team players on the club website were signed by Scott.
Another 2 permanent signings of his have been sacked off.
So 5 of the players that started were from this 18 players he has signed in the squad. 4 were Home Grown and nothing to do with Scott, he wasn't here. 2 were signed before his time.

I haven't played down saturday, the performance, the result, the atmosphere; the importance of it all. I have consistently supported Carrick.
I am not having a go at the players recruited, they did not recruit themselves. They do not deserve, will not benefit from and don't get stick from me at the match.

I am critical of a man who was a strange appointment to such a powerful position and who's record to date on recruitment and sale value is really really poor.

You have become increasingly happy clappy over the course of this summer and have fully bought into the "the club can only be backed about everything" viewpoint.

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

18 of the 26 players listed as First team players on the club website were signed by Scott.
Another 2 permanent signings of his have been sacked off.
So 5 of the players that started were from this 18 players he has signed in the squad. 4 were Home Grown and nothing to do with Scott, he wasn't here. 2 were signed before his time.

I haven't played down saturday, the performance, the result, the atmosphere; the importance of it all. I have consistently supported Carrick.
I am not having a go at the players recruited, they did not recruit themselves. They do not deserve, will not benefit from and don't get stick from me at the match.

I am critical of a man who was a strange appointment to such a powerful position and who's record to date on recruitment and sale value is really really poor.

You have become increasingly happy clappy over the course of this summer and have fully bought into the "the club can only be backed about everything" viewpoint.

I’ve consistently said that new signings will take time to settle in.

I’ve said the club has moved from 17th to 10th to 7th to 4th in four years - this follows on from the ‘bottoming out’ under Woodgate but the fact is we are improving season on season.

If saying we should show patience and try to look at the bigger picture makes me ‘happy clappy’ - whatever that means - then so be it. I can live with it.

You can feel free to hoof this thread later in the season when we’re languishing in the bottom half looking down rather than up and the new signings have shown themselves to be a waste of money. I will be able to live with that as well.

 

[coluka]

I’ve consistently said that new signings will take time to settle in.

I’ve said the club has moved from 17th to 10th to 7th to 4th in four years - this follows on from the ‘bottoming out’ under Woodgate but the fact is we are improving season on season.

If saying we should show patience and try to look at the bigger picture makes me ‘happy clappy’ - whatever that means - then so be it. I can live with it.

I think there is a little of a conflux/conflating going on here of where people are coming from.

I agree Rogers, Gilbert, Silvera, Engel, Bangura, Glover will all need time to grow, improve be coached and mature as players, they have been bought now with presumably future promise in mind (they should be relatively settled in though by now). They may or may not become good players, we all hope they do. The problem is some or all may become Hoppe like too.

The fact that recruitment is considered poor by people like me can also be true and I don’t get why people are not seeing the bigger picture. Of those who have been in and around the 1st team picture so far, only Dieng and O’Brien can be considered adequately experienced in the championship and to possess the appropriate levels of quality. Having lost 5 good quality players, 2 of which were under the clubs control (Watmore/Akpom) and 3 that weren’t (Archer/Ramsey/Giles). The reason people like I am unhappy is that we have manoeuvred ourselves into a situation through our recruitment and retention decisions to be in a position where we were playing open, expansive attacking football, to a position where all that dropped off the face of the cliff.

The raw recruits of the summer window are clearly not at the standard to deliver week in week out to mount a promotion push based on everything we have seen so far, barring RVDB who has performed sufficiently well and will get better in time I believe too. That means the recruitment for this season has been inadequate for THIS season, the here and now. We don’t know if it will show through in time. I am concerned about the here and now, this season. Carrick himself talks about the next game as being what is important, only the next game. He lives in the here and now, not the future not the past. He is trying to coach projects with certain attributes into better footballers for the future, but that has left us vulnerable in the present, NOW.

Football being a results based business matters and the clubs status and finances to a degree rest on that being maintained. The improvement you talk of will likely not progress this season after 4 years of improvement, however that period does not reflect the worsening period up to Warnocks appointment, as it was Warnock who kick started the improvement advanced further under Wilder and Carrick. However, even in their short reigns the ups were followed by sudden downs, certainly in Wilder and Carricks reigns. None of us can safely predict where we will finish, but It would take a brave man to say Carrick will improve on what he did last year, so that by any metric will be a set back and failure to improve. The key is it won’t be on Carrick, or shouldn’t be because he has been provided with inferior players to work with this season, hence why Scott gets the criticism.

There is undoubtedly talent out there signed for peanuts in todays money by clubs, Burnley signed Luca Koleosho for £2.65M from Espanyol B, Brighton keep doing it for not much more season on season, players that are capable of hitting the ground running, and that is what is disappointing about our business so far, Scotts record at Norwich produced arguably Buendia and Pukki and only the former made money, hence the concern.

 

[indeedido]

I think there is a little of a conflux/conflating going on here of where people are coming from.

I agree Rogers, Gilbert, Silvera, Engel, Bangura, Glover will all need time to grow, improve be coached and mature as players, they have been bought now with presumably future promise in mind (they should be relatively settled in though by now). They may or may not become good players, we all hope they do. The problem is some or all may become Hoppe like too.

The fact that recruitment is considered poor by people like me can also be true and I don’t get why people are not seeing the bigger picture. Of those who have been in and around the 1st team picture so far, only Dieng and O’Brien can be considered adequately experienced in the championship and to possess the appropriate levels of quality. Having lost 5 good quality players, 2 of which were under the clubs control (Watmore/Akpom) and 3 that weren’t (Archer/Ramsey/Giles). The reason people like I am unhappy is that we have manoeuvred ourselves into a situation through our recruitment and retention decisions to be in a position where we were playing open, expansive attacking football, to a position where all that dropped off the face of the cliff.

The raw recruits of the summer window are clearly not at the standard to deliver week in week out to mount a promotion push based on everything we have seen so far, barring RVDB who has performed sufficiently well and will get better in time I believe too. That means the recruitment for this season has been inadequate for THIS season, the here and now. We don’t know if it will show through in time. I am concerned about the here and now, this season. Carrick himself talks about the next game as being what is important, only the next game. He lives in the here and now, not the future not the past. He is trying to coach projects with certain attributes into better footballers for the future, but that has left us vulnerable in the present, NOW.

Football being a results based business matters and the clubs status and finances to a degree rest on that being maintained. The improvement you talk of will likely not progress this season after 4 years of improvement, however that period does not reflect the worsening period up to Warnocks appointment, as it was Warnock who kick started the improvement advanced further under Wilder and Carrick. However, even in their short reigns the ups were followed by sudden downs, certainly in Wilder and Carricks reigns. None of us can safely predict where we will finish, but It would take a brave man to say Carrick will improve on what he did last year, so that by any metric will be a set back and failure to improve. The key is it won’t be on Carrick, or shouldn’t be because he has been provided with inferior players to work with this season, hence why Scott gets the criticism.

There is undoubtedly talent out there signed for peanuts in todays money by clubs, Burnley signed Luca Koleosho for £2.65M from Espanyol B, Brighton keep doing it for not much more season on season, players that are capable of hitting the ground running, and that is what is disappointing about our business so far, Scotts record at Norwich produced arguably Buendia and Pukki and only the former made money, hence the concern.

Absolutely and comprehensively spot on!

 

[AytonMews]

Brighton keep doing it for not much more season on season

Like I said earlier in the thread, Brighton signed 8 players in the summer for about £90m, but only played 2 of them on Saturday

 

[coluka]

Like I said earlier in the thread, Brighton signed 8 players in the summer for about £90m, but only played 2 of them on Saturday

Those two individually, cost around the same sort of ball park headline price as Lath

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

I think there is a little of a conflux/conflating going on here of where people are coming from.

I agree Rogers, Gilbert, Silvera, Engel, Bangura, Glover will all need time to grow, improve be coached and mature as players, they have been bought now with presumably future promise in mind (they should be relatively settled in though by now). They may or may not become good players, we all hope they do. The problem is some or all may become Hoppe like too.

The fact that recruitment is considered poor by people like me can also be true and I don’t get why people are not seeing the bigger picture. Of those who have been in and around the 1st team picture so far, only Dieng and O’Brien can be considered adequately experienced in the championship and to possess the appropriate levels of quality. Having lost 5 good quality players, 2 of which were under the clubs control (Watmore/Akpom) and 3 that weren’t (Archer/Ramsey/Giles). The reason people like I am unhappy is that we have manoeuvred ourselves into a situation through our recruitment and retention decisions to be in a position where we were playing open, expansive attacking football, to a position where all that dropped off the face of the cliff.

The raw recruits of the summer window are clearly not at the standard to deliver week in week out to mount a promotion push based on everything we have seen so far, barring RVDB who has performed sufficiently well and will get better in time I believe too. That means the recruitment for this season has been inadequate for THIS season, the here and now. We don’t know if it will show through in time. I am concerned about the here and now, this season. Carrick himself talks about the next game as being what is important, only the next game. He lives in the here and now, not the future not the past. He is trying to coach projects with certain attributes into better footballers for the future, but that has left us vulnerable in the present, NOW.

Football being a results based business matters and the clubs status and finances to a degree rest on that being maintained. The improvement you talk of will likely not progress this season after 4 years of improvement, however that period does not reflect the worsening period up to Warnocks appointment, as it was Warnock who kick started the improvement advanced further under Wilder and Carrick. However, even in their short reigns the ups were followed by sudden downs, certainly in Wilder and Carricks reigns. None of us can safely predict where we will finish, but It would take a brave man to say Carrick will improve on what he did last year, so that by any metric will be a set back and failure to improve. The key is it won’t be on Carrick, or shouldn’t be because he has been provided with inferior players to work with this season, hence why Scott gets the criticism.

There is undoubtedly talent out there signed for peanuts in todays money by clubs, Burnley signed Luca Koleosho for £2.65M from Espanyol B, Brighton keep doing it for not much more season on season, players that are capable of hitting the ground running, and that is what is disappointing about our business so far, Scotts record at Norwich produced arguably Buendia and Pukki and only the former made money, hence the concern.

You’re saying the recruitment isn’t good enough for the here and now, I’m saying it’s September and it’s too early to judge either way. You then say - or said in response to someone earlier - “wise people…” I mean, come on. You don’t know if the recruitment will be good, bad, indifferent.

I imagine you were posting very similar complaints about recruitment this time last year? If you weren’t one of them I’m happy to be corrected. But there were swathes of people slagging Steffen, Lenihan, Smith, etc. “We haven’t replaced Tav, we haven’t signed a striker,” etc. “How far have we fallen to be relying on Akpom.” People will deny it now but this board was littered with posters absolutely slaughtering players, staff, managers, owners. People were absolutely fuming. I remember it because when you look back you think, oh yeah, maybe it might be better to wait until more than 8 games of league football have been played.

There’s just this sense that it’s important to come on and be critical of something, anything. The bottom line is nobody knows how these new players are going to shape up. I’m sure one or two - maybe more - will struggle and eventually drift away to other clubs. I’m optimistic that some will prove themselves very useful. That’s just what happens when you’re looking around for cheap bargains and discarded youngsters.

Some will work out, some won’t. I’m prepared to accept that. I don’t make my judgments in September. Call me old fashioned.

 

[AytonMews]

Thing is though, Brighton have had plenty of transfer misses amongst the hits. It’s easy to cherry pick the best bits of transfer business from clubs and say “why can’t we be more like that?”..

Fans of other clubs probably look at us and do the same!

Akpom - signed for £2m sold for £10m
Spence - signed on a free, sold for £12m
Jones - signed on a free, now a quality winger
Tav - academy graduate sold for £8m
Fry and Hackney - now worth similar
Dieng - good championship GK for £2m
McGree - top championship player for £2.5m

 

[coluka]

You’re saying the recruitment isn’t good enough for the here and now, I’m saying it’s September and it’s too early to judge either way. You then say - or said in response to someone earlier - “wise people…” I mean, come on. You don’t know if the recruitment will be good, bad, indifferent.

I imagine you were posting very similar complaints about recruitment this time last year? If you weren’t one of them I’m happy to be corrected. But there were swathes of people slagging Steffen, Lenihan, Smith, etc. We haven’t replaced Tav, we haven’t signed a striker, etc. How far have we fallen to be relying on Akpom FFS. People will deny it now but this board with posters absolutely slaughtering players, staff, managers, owners. People were absolutely fuming. I remember it because when you look back you think, oh yeah, maybe it might be better to wait until more than 8 games of league football have been played.

There’s just this sense that it’s important to come on and be critical of something, anything. The bottom line is nobody knows how these new players are going to shape up. I’m sure one or two - maybe more - will struggle and eventually drift away to other clubs. I’m optimistic than some will prove themselves very useful. That’s just what happens when you’re looking around for cheap bargains and discarded youngsters.

Some will work out, some won’t. I’m prepared to accept that.

I was chuffed at Smith, Clarke and Lenihan‘s signings and said so thanks. I was critical about not signing a proven striker, we signed Forss, who did nothing till Carrick moved him to the right to be fair, he was signed as a striker by the club though and was not great in an under performing Wilder team, praise to Carrick on him and Akpom, without that being on Carrick, neither would have performed as well as they did. Neither were successful in the roles they were signed to do originally by recruitment.

Carrick, I have been supporting and am on record as saying keep him if relegated this season, just like I did Karanka and Southgate. I have since 2006 been very critical on recruitment, I think my comments on it, the need for quality, creativity and pace (season after season), have been proved were largely missing and were accurate, I was like a scratched record at times, but was correct. I pointed out some players were not the managers choices and had pelters, including from you. We now know for sure that was indeed the case under Southgate, Karanka and Woodgate.

Recruitment improved for a while when Kenyon was ‘supporting’ our owner but promotion then saw another lurch and a policy of buying a few on the cheap (fee wise) players who were injured but we may be able to reinvigorate (Fischer, Bernado, Negredo, Valdes) plus some from a relegated( there’s a clue there) Villa (Guzan, Traore and Gestede). The recruitment since 2006 was poor leading to a decline year on year barring a spell under AK when Kenyon was around, then and has often been mixed until last January, where quality was loaned thanks to Danksy (imho). Good coaching in the short term since Warnock arrived helped mask some poor decisions, new manager bounces under him and Wilder were not sustained. Wilder was not happy on recruitment last year talking of developmental players and the same applies largely this season. You seem happy to settle for whatever will be will be.

As a long standing SC holder and round trips including tickets costing me currently around £1350 a season (card, fuel, parking) and supporting as a SC/ST holder since 1973/74, I feel entitled to give my view and say it as it is and want and expect a better run club and team than it has largely been since 2006. I have been there in the dark days of the 80’s when most deserted the club, so forgive me not wanting to hear nonsense from some. Crikey some spouting now prefer to watch a non league team.(that last line was not aimed at you personally btw).

 

[indeedido]

Like I said earlier in the thread, Brighton signed 8 players in the summer for about £90m, but only played 2 of them on Saturday

They finished in a Euro slot so perhaps had a much stronger relative base squad?
They are also sitting close to the top this season.
Of the Premier League.
The situations are totally different.
But then you know that don’t you.

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

I was chuffed at Smith, Clarke and Lenihan‘s signings and said so thanks. I was critical about not signing a proven striker, we signed Forss, who did nothing till Carrick moved him to the right to be fair, he was signed as a striker by the club though and was not great in an under performing Wilder team, praise to Carrick on him and Akpom, without that being on Carrick, neither would have performed as well as they did. Neither were successful in the roles they were signed to do originally by recruitment.

Carrick, I have been supporting and am on record as saying keep him if relegated this season, just like I did Karanka and Southgate. I have since 2006 been very critical on recruitment, I think my comments on it, the need for quality, creativity and pace (season after season), have been proved were largely missing and were accurate, I was like a scratched record at times, but was correct. I pointed out some players were not the managers choices and had pelters, including from you. We now know for sure that was indeed the case under Southgate, Karanka and Woodgate.

Recruitment improved for a while when Kenyon was ‘supporting’ our owner but promotion then saw another lurch and a policy of buying a few on the cheap (fee wise) players who were injured but we may be able to reinvigorate (Fischer, Bernado, Negredo, Valdes) plus some from a relegated( there’s a clue there) Villa (Guzan, Traore and Gestede). The recruitment since 2006 was poor leading to a decline year on year barring a spell under AK when Kenyon was around, then and has often been mixed until last January, where quality was loaned thanks to Danksy (imho). Good coaching in the short term since Warnock arrived helped mask some poor decisions, new manager bounces under him and Wilder were not sustained. Wilder was not happy on recruitment last year talking of developmental players and the same applies largely this season. You seem happy to settle for whatever will be will be.

As a long standing SC holder and round trips including tickets costing me currently around £1350 a season (card, fuel, parking) and supporting as a SC/ST holder since 1973/74, I feel entitled to give my view and say it as it is and want and expect a better run club and team than it has largely been since 2006. I have been there in the dark days of the 80’s when most deserted the club, so forgive me not wanting to hear nonsense from some. Crikey some spouting now prefer to watch a non league team.(that last line was not aimed at you personally btw).

Yep, respect your view and it’s never personal - I enjoy the back and forth.

Forss was surely just a good signing? This is where it does irk me a little bit because people can’t just say he was a good signing, it has to be that ‘the club’ signed him to be something else and it’s only the wisdom of an outsider coming in that allows us to say he wasn’t a waste of money. It’s just feels stretched. To my mind he was, is, a good signing.

It’s like Crooks. He’s a good signing. Warnock bought him to play central midfield but he rarely played there, he popped up all over and has done ever since. Does that mean we have to say Warnock got lucky? Do we have to preface every signing with a set of rules and markers? To me it was just a good bit of business by Warnock. I don’t particularly care for Warnock but he did some good stuff for us.

The bit about the historical signings of players over the manager’s head - nothing has really changed on that front, has it? I haven’t seen anything that shows anything else. We know now that Boro under Scott and his team work in a more collaborative way. And we don’t actually know how involved Carrick is with that TBF. But again, I don’t know if there’s any need to go back to Eindhoven or 2008. Why are we saying on one hand it’s the here and now that matters, but on the other hand, y’know, something that happened in 2007.

As for me settling for something sub-standard, or happy with whatever - you’re ignoring what I’ve posted countless times. I’m happy to wait and see how things play out before making judgments. I think some of the new players have struggled at times, but that doesn’t mean I think Scott should be hauled across the coals. Seniors who were already here have struggled as well. I’ve seen players come good before, I’ve seen good players drift away too. I am just prepared to be patient. Or more patient than 8 league games anyway.

You say you ‘say it as it is,’ I would disagree. You say it as you see it, which is different. I see them differently.

 

[AytonMews]

They finished in a Euro slot so perhaps had a much stronger relative base squad?
They are also sitting close to the top this season.
Of the Premier League.
The situations are totally different.
But then you know that don’t you.

Not all that different to be honest. They finished 6th and lost their 3 best players over the summer. We finished 4th and lost our 4 best players over the summer.

The transfer policies of the clubs are similar, just at different prices obviously… they are a few years ahead of us with the strategy so have more players in the squad, and players they signed a year or two years ago are now ready for the first team

Brighton take “punts” on players for £5m-£10m with a view to developing them… some work out, some don’t. Whereas we take punts on players for £500k-£1m.

 

[indeedido]

Not all that different to be honest. They finished 6th and lost their 3 best players over the summer. We finished 4th and lost our 4 best players over the summer.

The transfer policies of the clubs are similar, just at different prices obviously… they are a few years ahead of us with the strategy so have more players in the squad, and players they signed a year or two years ago are now ready for the first team

Brighton take “punts” on players for £5m-£10m with a view to developing them… some work out, some don’t. Whereas we take punts on players for £500k-£1m.

Righto.
Brighton have paid over £10m for 20 different players since they were promoted. They have speculated on loads more on top of that on a different scale to us in every way.
You really don’t think they might not have a stronger base squad after the 3 big sales this summer?
That they are flying in the PL seems to suggest they did.
We lost the quality that was on another level to everything else we had. We are a long way short as a result.

 

[AytonMews]

You really don’t think they might not have a stronger base squad after the 3 big sales this summer?

I literally just said they do Players they signed 1-2 years ago are now stepping up to replace the players lost… Van Hecke, Gilmour etc


Because they are 3-4 years ahead of us with the transfer strategy we have only just started implementing. Patience required.

 

[coluka]

Yep, respect your view and it’s never personal - I enjoy the back and forth.

Forss was surely just a good signing? This is where it does irk me a little bit because people can’t just say he was a good signing, it has to be that ‘the club’ signed him to be something else and it’s only the wisdom of an outsider coming in that allows us to say he wasn’t a waste of money. It’s just feels stretched. To my mind he was, is, a good signing.

It’s like Crooks. He’s a good signing. Warnock bought him to play central midfield but he rarely played there, he popped up all over and has done ever since. Does that mean we have to say Warnock got lucky? Do we have to preface every signing with a set of rules and markers? To me it was just a good bit of business by Warnock. I don’t particularly care for Warnock but he did some good stuff for us.

The bit about the historical signings of players over the manager’s head - nothing has really changed on that front, has it? I haven’t seen anything that shows anything else. We know now that Boro under Scott and his team work in a more collaborative way. And we don’t actually know how involved Carrick is with that TBF. But again, I don’t know if there’s any need to go back to Eindhoven or 2008. Why are we saying on one hand it’s the here and now that matters, but on the other hand, y’know, something that happened in 2007.

As for me settling for something sub-standard, or happy with whatever - you’re ignoring what I’ve posted countless times. I’m happy to wait and see how things play out before making judgments. I think some of the new players have struggled at times, but that doesn’t mean I think Scott should be hauled across the coals. I’ve seen players come good before, I’ve seen good players drift away too. I am just prepared to be patient.

You say you ‘say it as it is,’ I would disagree. You say it as you see it, which is different. I happen to see things differently.

Of course Forss was a good signing, but for me, when players are recruited for one position, but don’t deliver in that position, that is poor recruitment, they were brought in to do a certain role. The fact a coach gets a tune out of a player in a totally different role is good coaching, not good recruitment, but a good signing can result. The difference has to be recognised, its crucial, as you wont always be able to get a tune out of someone in a different role to what you bought them to do. The fact they turn out to be a good signing is down to the quality of coaching, it can work both ways though, having quality players around them like fitting a jigsaw, that is coaching again as well as natural ability.

Crooks is a decent championship footballer, him and Izzy seem to connect well, they are better together than when apart it often seems to me. Crooks is a midfielder and not a number 10, but will score goals he is best popping up from RM. He can do a job and his value to MFC has been repaid, he owes us nothing really. There is every need to go back to 2006 as there is only one constant within that whole period of shocking decisions. Who appoints the so called shocking managers, we have had a huge turnover in them. It can’t and shouldn’t be swept under the carpet.

Signings over managers head has changed a bit hopefully because Gibson is said to be less hands on since Scotts arrival, but we don’t know for sure yet. I know you are happy to play patience and the waiting game, if recent history tells us much it is patience tends not to be rewarded, this is one of our worst starts ever in a season, apart from Saturday, all the games, even the cup victories have been turgid. You are entitled to your view, but when you have a pop at others, you have to accept people will challenge you on it as you have with me.

I know those sitting around me see the same game as I do, have similar opinions on the games as I do home and away, we may notice the odd thing differently but not very much. I dare say from my East Stand seat I see different angles from someone in say the North West upper, what part of the ground is your SC in, different angles can lead to different thoughts and opinions I guess. Yes I do call it as it is also as I see it, as I interpret it as I judge and understand it. I am not always right, only a fool thinks they are, but the fact we disagree on some stuff does not make you always wrong