Best performance of the season with 3/13 on the pitch
- Thread starter indeedido
- Start date
TeaCider
Well-known member
Of the 12 senior players that we signed this summer, 3 are goalkeepers, 2 are left backs, 5 are forwards, 1 is a midfielder, and 1 is a defender.
So you can discount at least 4 of those signings starting immediately, barring a bizarre formation, and that's before you even consider the 15 players who were already here before this summer.
Most of the signings have been for squad depth, and they're providing it.
Jones, McGree and Coburn were our 3 best players yesterday, so he's clearly made the right decision starting them.
The only thing I did find concerning from yesterday is that Carrick would rather play a midfielder at left back than Engel, though I get it after just how bad he'd been against Sheff Wed and I thought O'Brien was largely fine there.
So you can discount at least 4 of those signings starting immediately, barring a bizarre formation, and that's before you even consider the 15 players who were already here before this summer.
Most of the signings have been for squad depth, and they're providing it.
Jones, McGree and Coburn were our 3 best players yesterday, so he's clearly made the right decision starting them.
The only thing I did find concerning from yesterday is that Carrick would rather play a midfielder at left back than Engel, though I get it after just how bad he'd been against Sheff Wed and I thought O'Brien was largely fine there.
festa5
Well-known member
Well let's have a look.
1. Dieng - played
2. Glover - signed as back up
3. Jones - signed as back up
4. O'Brien - played
5. VDB - played
6. Rogers - bench (has had plenty of mins so far, still developing shown potential)
7. Silvera - as above.
8. Lath - bench. Looked lively, missed chances so dropped but otherwise looks capable at this level. Will see plenty of him.
9. Bangura - injured.
10. Engel - possibly a dud, but very early days.
11. Greenwood - agree this one is a bit weird so far given its a loan and doesn't look better than players we own.
12. Gilbert - Not seen anything of him, Brentford offered him a new contract though. Bit of an odd one.
So of the 9 who didn't play, 2 are keepers and 1 was injured. They couldn't possibly have played.
So that leaves 6. Engel, Silvera, Rogers, Lath, Greenwood and Gilbert.
2 came on as subs. So that's 4 who could have played, who played no part.
4 doesn't quite sound so ridiculous or "weird" does it?
1. Dieng - played
2. Glover - signed as back up
3. Jones - signed as back up
4. O'Brien - played
5. VDB - played
6. Rogers - bench (has had plenty of mins so far, still developing shown potential)
7. Silvera - as above.
8. Lath - bench. Looked lively, missed chances so dropped but otherwise looks capable at this level. Will see plenty of him.
9. Bangura - injured.
10. Engel - possibly a dud, but very early days.
11. Greenwood - agree this one is a bit weird so far given its a loan and doesn't look better than players we own.
12. Gilbert - Not seen anything of him, Brentford offered him a new contract though. Bit of an odd one.
So of the 9 who didn't play, 2 are keepers and 1 was injured. They couldn't possibly have played.
So that leaves 6. Engel, Silvera, Rogers, Lath, Greenwood and Gilbert.
2 came on as subs. So that's 4 who could have played, who played no part.
4 doesn't quite sound so ridiculous or "weird" does it?
indeedido
Well-known member
Dieng started and looks good.
Van den Berg started because the two RB's were not fit. (Did well)
O'Brien started (out of position) despite signing two LB's in summer.
2 reserve keepers signed.
Bangura injured.
Barlaser, Engel, Silvera, Rogers, Lath, Gilbert, Greenwood.
Had Bangura and Smith been fit it is likely that only 2 of the last 13 players signed (i.e. signings of the last year/two windows) would have started yesterday.
The last person I am having a pop at is Carrick, he has tried a lot of the signings.
Recruitment has been poor.
indeedido
Well-known member
The silver lining is obvious, a very good performance and deserved win.
You do understand it is different people making different points don't you Muttley?
Players signed in the last year/ last two windows.
How many of them started?
Not so tough or at all contrived.
The recruitment has been very poor. It appears the manager agrees.
Muttley
Well-known member
You cannot possibly know that.
viv_andersons_nana
Well-known member
Why the last two windows though? It used to always be across Scott’s time at the club, this is the first time I’ve seen someone use a completely arbitrary moment in time to divide that tenure into chunks.
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret
Well-known member
Isn't your problem with the head of recruitment rather than kieron Scott, who I understand is more of a getting the deals done sort of bloke?
Muttley
Well-known member
In this context no. You just seem to be posting arbitrary nonsense to pursue your own narrative that our recruitment isn't up to scratch even though we have quite a few players who ideally wouldn't be starting or would be playing in a different position.
Even if the recruitment was as flawed as you believe there is no opportunity for remediation until January.
Pointless.
indeedido
Well-known member
Which is why I didn't post that I know the manager agrees, silly.
Because it represents 13 (thirteen) footballers, over half the current squad. It's quite significant and immediate.
Loan players who have gone back obviously can't be counted.
So add in Forss, McGree, Clarke, Boyd Munce, Hoppe, Lenihan and Smith. That makes 20 players signed in the last 4 windows (or all of Scott's time) and that could still be here (18 of them are).
Just 5 of those 20 players started yesterday.
However you want to look at it, the recruitment looks poor.
No, it's not.
The Head of Recruitment reports into Kieran Scott as "Sporting Director". He is absolutely responsible.
Oh do stop it. Most things can't be remotely influenced or impacted by us, therefore any posts are surely "pointless".
But don’t most clubs have an established core of a starting XI that have been together a few years??
You don’t sign 10+ players in one summer with a view to them all going straight into your starting XI (especially not when you finished top 6 the season before)
Redwurzel
Well-known member
No one talks about budgets or its that the elephant in the room.
It looks like the club had to reduce the wage bill in the Summer and generate a £3m to 4m transfer surplus.
Average Aussie league amd Danish league wages, I would imagine are well below Championship wages. For example I would expect Silvera and Rogers are on half or less of what Archer or Muniz were on as their loan wages. Dieng was the only permanent player we signed in the Summer who was established Championship level, probably because we could only afford one mid Championship player. We are certainly not going to have problems with the financial fair play league people this season.
It looks like the club had to reduce the wage bill in the Summer and generate a £3m to 4m transfer surplus.
Average Aussie league amd Danish league wages, I would imagine are well below Championship wages. For example I would expect Silvera and Rogers are on half or less of what Archer or Muniz were on as their loan wages. Dieng was the only permanent player we signed in the Summer who was established Championship level, probably because we could only afford one mid Championship player. We are certainly not going to have problems with the financial fair play league people this season.
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Ex Footy Legs
Well-known member
Good post.
I don’t think archer does enough in games. I think he is very much in the development stage still and I’m chuffed with lath and Coburn as our options, We are missing chuba the most but if he plays lath and josh up top they could be a revelation (!)
coluka
Well-known member
Have I woken up in 1938?
One (decent) performance and suddenly people think we are good to go. I hope to god the corner has been turned and we are on the up at long last. We rightly celebrate Saturday, we beat a last season PL team, but lets not pretend we beat Real Madrid. Southampton were poor in the final third, they played like you’d expect from a Russell Martin team… (oh wait on!). They have lost 4 in a row and might well even be fighting Sheff Utd for Wilders services soon. We are still in the bottom 3, the summer signings are not of sufficient quality as a group to start. Dieng, RVDB are the 2 permanent signings that are and one of them would not have been a starter had we have fit full backs. O’Brien is a loanee and is of sufficient quality to start.
Will any of the others improve, nobody knows, not even Carrick, board sages can guess and hoof posts in 18 months time and claim they are right (either way) but it is anyones guess. Based on what we have seen TO DATE, we have signed a CF who can’t finish, a LW who can’t shoot, 3 x forwards (2 perm, 1 loan) who look way off the quality needed, one of which unseen, a reserve keeper with ricks and another keeper who is for a few weeks in Jan/Feb. People appeasing Scotts recruitment record without any proof of what they will offer in 12 months, when it is now we need them. An injury to a couple of Saturdays team and we do not have the strength in depth in key places now when it is needed, not the future seasons. All I read is appeasement ……. after just one game, I hope people are right, but hope doesn’t win football matches (No cheesy Hope Powell jokes please).
One (decent) performance and suddenly people think we are good to go. I hope to god the corner has been turned and we are on the up at long last. We rightly celebrate Saturday, we beat a last season PL team, but lets not pretend we beat Real Madrid. Southampton were poor in the final third, they played like you’d expect from a Russell Martin team… (oh wait on!). They have lost 4 in a row and might well even be fighting Sheff Utd for Wilders services soon. We are still in the bottom 3, the summer signings are not of sufficient quality as a group to start. Dieng, RVDB are the 2 permanent signings that are and one of them would not have been a starter had we have fit full backs. O’Brien is a loanee and is of sufficient quality to start.
Will any of the others improve, nobody knows, not even Carrick, board sages can guess and hoof posts in 18 months time and claim they are right (either way) but it is anyones guess. Based on what we have seen TO DATE, we have signed a CF who can’t finish, a LW who can’t shoot, 3 x forwards (2 perm, 1 loan) who look way off the quality needed, one of which unseen, a reserve keeper with ricks and another keeper who is for a few weeks in Jan/Feb. People appeasing Scotts recruitment record without any proof of what they will offer in 12 months, when it is now we need them. An injury to a couple of Saturdays team and we do not have the strength in depth in key places now when it is needed, not the future seasons. All I read is appeasement ……. after just one game, I hope people are right, but hope doesn’t win football matches (No cheesy Hope Powell jokes please).
A damning indictment of the club’s recruitment.
Muttley
Well-known member
Said absolutely no one. All I would say is, it was a pretty decent performance and an enjoyable game to watch. I'm sure you can find some optimistic soul that is now confident that automatic promotion is assured but most of us are simply enjoying the win. We're on the internet, all opinions are available.
Nah, it really wasn't, it was a biased extrapolation of a deliberately limited set of data to reinforce an argument that the OP is having with himself.
It was good to get the win. Southampton were a good team to come up against at that moment. As for whether the recruitment has been successful or not? We will find out as we go through the season, it is perhaps unfortunate that players like Rogers and Engels were thrown into the first team before they were ready or it might be that like other recruits (e.g. Hoppe) they won't be good enough. This is the way we will work gong forward and it surely has to be better than assembling a team of "proven Championship players" who have failed to get promoted with multiple teams over multiple seasons?
viv_andersons_nana
Well-known member
5 of Saturday’s team were signed under Scott. As were the 3 subs that came on. 3 were academy graduates. Jones was plucked from non-league and presumably signed off by someone from the academy set-up. Howson was Monk, Crooks was Warnock.
So the man appointed to oversee a ‘new direction’ for the club has been in position for 4 transfer windows and we’ve signed half a new team, who all play every week, plus enjoyed watching Steffen, Giles, Archer and Ramsey.
We’ve had some signings that haven’t worked but which club hasn’t.
It’s far too early to judge the new players. So many of them are young, picked up on the cheap to hopefully develop and either sell on or become senior players for the club, or both.
Surely people get sick of posting about how sh*t they think the recruitment is? Even after wins now. Drawing arbitrary lines to try and make a point about something. I don’t get it, I have to be honest.
So the man appointed to oversee a ‘new direction’ for the club has been in position for 4 transfer windows and we’ve signed half a new team, who all play every week, plus enjoyed watching Steffen, Giles, Archer and Ramsey.
We’ve had some signings that haven’t worked but which club hasn’t.
It’s far too early to judge the new players. So many of them are young, picked up on the cheap to hopefully develop and either sell on or become senior players for the club, or both.
Surely people get sick of posting about how sh*t they think the recruitment is? Even after wins now. Drawing arbitrary lines to try and make a point about something. I don’t get it, I have to be honest.
viv_andersons_nana
Well-known member
Also the three subs that came on - Smith, Greenwood and Silvera, all signed under Scott - are trusted so little by Carrick and his staff that he brought them on to try and hold onto to a lead and see out a game against a newly-relegated team whose budget blows ours of the water. If he didn’t trust them he wouldn’t have done that.