Black Sheep Brewery in Administration....

[Nobby_Barnes]

Well, they’ve just started selling Punk IPA across China.

Can't knock them, they are selling their product at premium prices....I don't think it's worth it so tend to swerve.....

 

[atypical_boro]

Can't knock them, they are selling their product at premium prices....I don't think it's worth it so tend to swerve.....

To be honest about 80% of what they sell is, in my opinion, garbage (at any price). But they have a knack of producing something fantastic about once a year and, such is their marketing model/network and know-how, it gets sold all over the Anglosphere within weeks of release.

 

[Andy_W]

Can someone explain how appointing administrators protects the creditors? Invariably in administrations it appears as if the only people getting anything out of the process are the administrators, and creditors get a penny in the pound if they're lucky.

I've had this happen about 20 times in the last 15 years or so. Probably got about 2k back from maybe 200k owed. Administrators/ liquidators pretty much both end up with the same result.

They charge a ludicrous fee, and then sell everything off cheaply to get their fee covered and nothing left for anyone else.

I don't even bother replying to administrators/liquidators' letters anymore, it's just a waste of time.

 

[indeedido]

Charlene Lyons is pretty bright. She did work for M&S in a previous life. It might be obvious but cost pressures and Covid are the reasons many companies are struggling, and I'm sure Black Sheep is no different.

Let me stop you right there. Being bright is a starting point, not a trump card. She has zero experience of the product, the industry, the market and absolutely zero feel. She also has not learned.
Charlene Lyons worked at M&S as a fashion buyer in her mid twenties.
She is no Roger Whiteside who was an ex M&S man and worked wonders as CEO at Punch and Greggs.
My Auntie added as much to M&S as Lyons, when Food Department supervisor in Stockton store.
As I say, let's see how she emerges to see what her motives have been from day one. It is not hard to work out. As I say, prior servicing/experience of Mike Ashley should give a clue.

I think Black Sheep has done that. Maisie Adam endorses their beer. You can buy it direct and from loads of retailers.

They haven't been sitting on their asses, it's very tough out there.

Paul is an arrogant old man who still thinks the business is his and only he can run it.
Rob at least puts the effort in and is a brewery man. Jo is to marketing what he is to hard work.
The family have blocked investment repeatedly, yet haven't the intention or capability to invest themselves.
Camra is the biggest shareholder and has been for many many years.
The last Chairman did bring in investment (now the 2nd largest shareholder), which enabled in house packaging lines and prevented previous reliance on and cost drain to Marstons.
The last Finance Director did bring in a self sourced life saving Covid Insurance payout which literally bought the company two more years and turned a £1m Operating loss into a £1m PBT in 2021. The family moaned because he got a bonus for saving them!!
The York brewery deal was done for cherry bobs and one of BSB's problems has been a lack of retail estate. The pubs have more than washed their faces. The deal was done for the pubs not the beer.

The product development has been self indulgent distraction and had no traction.
They have simply never seriously capitalised on their great core products. They should absolutely dominate Yorkshire, the goodwill for the product amongst punters is huge. The beer is great and relatively easy to keep - a huge asset for Cask. The brewery could have had retail estate, could have had mass distribution, but were complacent. They should also be in London as TimmyTaylors is, but wouldn't put the people in that TT's did.
The handling of Black Sheep Coffee and permitting them to continue has been scandalously badly handled. An abject lesson in laziness and incompetence, at the very least.

BSB are now disproportionately over-dependent on Off Trade and make no money from it. They haven't taken price despite crippling pressures for so many years it is laughable, until this year's amateur hour effort.
Somebody said "return to profit" higher up. What a joke. The business has not run at a profit for more than a handful of years in the last twenty.

(For those who don't know, Black Sheep was founded (brilliantly) in 1992 by Paul Theakston who was the only family member who would not support the sale of Theakstons Brewery to S&N. Great beer, great brand, hundreds of small shareholders as fans of the idea of retaining a high quality brewery in Masham. It was a wonderful story.
Theakstons disappeared into S&N, then ultimately Heineken and are still dependent on Heineken. Black Sheep is a much bigger business than Theakstons.
Paul Theakston went from charismatic founder to obstinate hand brake sadly and has missed so very many chances to scale things profitably.
The insistence on his sons being heavily involved in running a business they are not capable of running is one reason for the clusterfuck.
The blocking of any serious inward investment in to the business is another.
The unwillingness to understand that a serious business needs commercial competence to survive, let alone thrive, is yet another).

They have lost some good people over the last year, but retained the hangers on.

There could have been a great coming back together of dominant BSB with Theakstons and a huge Masham story, but Paul & Simon simply don't trust each other. It is really sad.

The brews and the brand will not completely die, like Theakstons hasn't, but sadly it will now never be what it could have been at the end of that first decade at the turn of the century.
I wish I was 20 years younger now.

 

[Redwurzel]

I must come across a real opportunist but it sounds like a good investment to buy the assets as the brand has alot of good will if the the basics of the brand are not changed.

I am not a craft beer expert but Indeedido sounds more so and the way he describes Black Sheep it could be the Guinness of the North.

I have noticed it used in Meat pies and in bread, which comes across as clever marketing and brand extension.

One issue though is real ale/CAMRA is not the main part of the beer market - it comes across to me as the high status end but limited in size.

Contrast Black Sheep with Doom Bar - DB seems to have the distribution its in all supermakets and many pubs, certainly in Welsh Borders and places like Hay Festival. DB may have a taste that appeals to more occasional drinkers. Like BS it appeals as a regional beer. I am just read up DB is now owned by Molson Coors which probably explains it better distribution.

It sounds like BS hadn't controlled costs well say bought electricity on a fixed cost or looked at ways of creating some of the their own power.

 

[hewielewie]

I was watching an episode of Rick Stein's food heroes yesterday and he visited the Brewery and spoke to Paul. 10 minutes later on the local news was the report about it going into administration.

 

[indeedido]

I must come across a real opportunist but it sounds like a good investment to buy the assets as the brand has alot of good will if the the basics of the brand are not changed.

I am not a craft beer expert but Indeedido sounds more so and the way he describes Black Sheep it could be the Guinness of the North.

I have noticed it used in Meat pies and in bread, which comes across as clever marketing and brand extension.

One issue though is real ale/CAMRA is not the main part of the beer market - it comes across to me as the high status end but limited in size.

Contrast Black Sheep with Doom Bar - DB seems to have the distribution its in all supermakets and many pubs, certainly in Welsh Borders and places like Hay Festival. DB may have a taste that appeals to more occasional drinkers. Like BS it appeals as a regional beer. I am just read up DB is now owned by Molson Coors which probably explains it better distribution.

It sounds like BS hadn't controlled costs well say bought electricity on a fixed cost or looked at ways of creating some of the their own power.

The only Doom Bar brewed in Cornwall now is the cask. Never a great brew IMHO, but scaled through Molson Coors.
The Internationals don't want Cask to thrive, just keg rubbish, lager and criminally under dutied cider.

Cask should be premium priced as it is a premium product that requires more care. The Big boys have targeted and marginalised it.
Paying premium price for mass produced fizzy rubbish is remarkable. That market is upside down, but shows the power of manufacturing and outlet distribution scale, together with heavyweight marketing.
Cask is niche, small now within ale and has declined especially through and post Covid.

Sheep had the position and brand image to be at the vanguard of Cask as a Premium Ale proposition that was good news to Publicans. They have spectacularly wasted that opportunity through short termism, introspection, family greed and poor leadership.

Hats off to the chancers in Scotland. They are disruptors who have made personal fortunes. But BrewDog is terrible beer.

I still think BSB could be special again and lead Cask, but my word it needs rid of family involvement, the useless "CEO" and some real investment.

 

[NZBoro1]

Well if any of you are ever our way and come and visit the pub - Moutere Inn.

Oldest pub in NZ (yes yes I know, its from the 1860s) put the cask ale is amazing.

We grow hops in the valley where I live and at the end of the harvest they did a special brew of 4 different beers in casks using local brewers (mainly Townsends - Ales of the unexpected) and had the hops in jars on the bar so you could have a good smell and then taste what the end product is like.

Oldest Pub in NZ

The Moutere Inn is the Oldest Pub in NZ, in its original building. With 13 rotating taps of Craft beer, great selection of local wines and quality pub meals.

www.moutereinn.co.nz

 

[Andy_W]

I must come across a real opportunist but it sounds like a good investment to buy the assets as the brand has alot of good will if the the basics of the brand are not changed.

I am not a craft beer expert but Indeedido sounds more so and the way he describes Black Sheep it could be the Guinness of the North.

I have noticed it used in Meat pies and in bread, which comes across as clever marketing and brand extension.

One issue though is real ale/CAMRA is not the main part of the beer market - it comes across to me as the high status end but limited in size.

Contrast Black Sheep with Doom Bar - DB seems to have the distribution its in all supermakets and many pubs, certainly in Welsh Borders and places like Hay Festival. DB may have a taste that appeals to more occasional drinkers. Like BS it appeals as a regional beer. I am just read up DB is now owned by Molson Coors which probably explains it better distribution.

It sounds like BS hadn't controlled costs well say bought electricity on a fixed cost or looked at ways of creating some of the their own power.

The problem is the whole drinking market is likely in decline, profit-wise at least, as people basically have less money, or they will just spend the money on cheaper products. It's not a market I would want to be investing in, or thinking of expanding in, not now when inflation is high and people have less disposable income. Money diverts to the basics.

Also, independent/ craft beers have had a bit of a boom, but that won't help them, as that was the market they were already in, and there is a mass of competition now. People buying these drinks don't seem to stick with the same beers either, they seem to want to try a million of them, and there are a million of them to try now.

They've made a loss or nothing for 4/5 of the last accounts, last year was a £1m loss on £14m turnover, YE23 will probably be worse.

They seem to have controlled costs ok, the problem is their turnover was 19m for 2018-2020, and then dropped to 13m and 14m for 21 and 22, and I bet 23 is no better.

Not many companies can survive a 50% hit on turnover for two, and probably three years running.

Really tough market to be in, especially now, some of their competitors, even relatively new companies probably spend more on marketing than Black Sheep have turnover, and they probably realised it's something they can't fight.

200 years is a good run mind, and the family has probably made enough for none of them to ever need to work again, and probably realised risking that to fight the market was not worth it.

Hopefully all the staff get sorted.

 

[indeedido]

The problem is the whole drinking market is likely in decline, profit-wise at least, as people basically have less money, or they will just spend the money on cheaper products. It's not a market I would want to be investing in, or thinking of expanding in, not now when inflation is high and people have less disposable income. Money diverts to the basics.

Also, independent/ craft beers have had a bit of a boom, but that won't help them, as that was the market they were already in, and there is a mass of competition now. People buying these drinks don't seem to stick with the same beers either, they seem to want to try a million of them, and there are a million of them to try now.

They've made a loss or nothing for 4/5 of the last accounts, last year was a £1m loss on £14m turnover, YE23 will probably be worse.

They seem to have controlled costs ok, the problem is their turnover was 19m for 2018-2020, and then dropped to 13m and 14m for 21 and 22, and I bet 23 is no better.

Not many companies can survive a 50% hit on turnover for two, and probably three years running.

Really tough market to be in, especially now, some of their competitors, even relatively new companies probably spend more on marketing than Black Sheep have turnover, and they probably realised it's something they can't fight.

200 years is a good run mind, and the family has probably made enough for none of them to ever need to work again, and probably realised risking that to fight the market was not worth it.

Hopefully all the staff get sorted.

They were too big to benefit from the lower duty that small craft brewers enjoy, but not big enough to compete with the scale giants.
They make all their profit from local on trade, but have not capitalised on extending that. They sell most of their beer in supermarkets at no margin.
Don't forget Andy that the turnover you quote includes duty (not VAT).
Their run is 31 years, not 200.
It is a horrendously tough market to be in.
Reduced consumption, punters shifting away from ale and even faster from cask conditioned; international giants squeezing the life out of competition through unregulated predatory behaviour and targeting cask ale for bar space; supermarkets taking the only margin from the category; government pandering to giants lobby and making an **** of duty (cider really does have to be dealt with). I could go on and on.
But, it is still possible for a great product, with a great brand and capacity to expand to survive. As ever it is down to leadership which has been BSB's issue for 20 years and never more so than now.
A Founder always has to let go.

You say Andy that the family will never have to work again. For PT he couldn't anyway, but there is very little wealth that has been created.
Compare to MeanTime Brewery founded 1999 in Greenwich, which also had a £17m turnover in 2014 and made £1.5m profit. They sold that year to SAB Miller for £120m.
BrewDog launched in 2007 and ten years later sold 22% of their unprofitable business at a valuation of over a billion pounds.
Shareholders at BSB have never had a dividend and now their shares are absolutely worthless. Paul was a passionate brewer and should never ever have run the business itself.

 

[Andy_W]

They were too big to benefit from the lower duty that small craft brewers enjoy, but not big enough to compete with the scale giants.
They make all their profit from local on trade, but have not capitalised on extending that. They sell most of their beer in supermarkets at no margin.
Don't forget Andy that the turnover you quote includes duty (not VAT).
Their run is 31 years, not 200.
It is a horrendously tough market to be in.
Reduced consumption, punters shifting away from ale and even faster from cask conditioned; international giants squeezing the life out of competition through unregulated predatory behaviour and targeting cask ale for bar space; supermarkets taking the only margin from the category; government pandering to giants lobby and making an **** of duty (cider really does have to be dealt with). I could go on and on.
But, it is still possible for a great product, with a great brand and capacity to expand to survive. As ever it is down to leadership which has been BSB's issue for 20 years and never more so than now.
A Founder always has to let go.

You say Andy that the family will never have to work again. For PT he couldn't anyway, but there is very little wealth that has been created.
Compare to MeanTime Brewery founded 1999 in Greenwich, which also had a £17m turnover in 2014 and made £1.5m profit. They sold that year to SAB Miller for £120m.
BrewDog launched in 2007 and ten years later sold 22% of their unprofitable business at a valuation of over a billion pounds.
Shareholders at BSB have never had a dividend and now their shares are absolutely worthless. Paul was a passionate brewer and should never ever have run the business itself.

Yeah, duty on booze is a killer, and saps a lot of that turnover.
Yeah, I mean the Theakston family, as various businesses have been going about 200 years, I think it's all linked, isn't it? The family have done well, put it that way.
The brew dog story is crazy, just shows what good marketing can do.
Can't issue dividends when there are no profits, and seems like a strange company to be invested in.
The company didn't seem to actually be worth anything, and the only worth seemed to come from the assets - liabilities, as there was no worth from the profit, as there wasn't any.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

There's a lot of attention paid to marketing in this thread, yet not a lot of personal taste mentioned.

I have a couple of micro pubs close to me and lots of the regulars don't bother with the real ales. Lagers and bottles of old staples, like Guinness, Newcastle Brown and Double Maxim appear to be as popular, together with the growing popularity of cider in various forms.

Perhaps real ale gets more of a write up than it warrants?

 

[caravan club]

I think it’s a matter of individual taste ( pun not intended). I personally prefer a good beer and like to stay on it for the session, be it in one pub or a few. To this end Guinness is usually reliable, or a Lager. However I have friends who will try whatever “real ale” is on, and are happy to chop and change as the session goes on.
I like the old fashioned “ electric” beers, such as Magnet, but they are becoming harder to find, as everywhere seems to be going on to the free flow ales, which I can’t stand! John Smiths smooth….yuk!

 

[Andy_W]

There's a lot of attention paid to marketing in this thread, yet not a lot of personal taste mentioned.

I have a couple of micro pubs close to me and lots of the regulars don't bother with the real ales. Lagers and bottles of old staples, like Guinness, Newcastle Brown and Double Maxim appear to be as popular, together with the growing popularity of cider in various forms.

Perhaps real ale gets more of a write up than it warrants?

Yeah, I think it does get more of a write-up than it warrants, the thing is the people reviewing these things are people that actually like the stuff or they just pretend they like it. They should have the write-ups done by a panel of 10 common folk.

I'm not surprised about your micro pubs comment, most people just drink what they like, but I still think a lot of the people who are younger and who drink the random stuff do it just to be quirky/ trendy. I must have been to about 20 larger/ beer festivals and 95% of it tastes like crap, to me anyway. Every time I go to one it's like deja vu, drink a few supposed normal strength/ normal type beers, get disappointed they taste like crap, so then move onto something extremely fruity which masks the taste, and get it as strogn as possible so half the volume has the same effect.

The only time I would drink beer by choice is if I didn't fancy gassy larger, and if I was only having a couple, this would be rare as I normally either drink none or lots. But if I did fancy the gas, and the larger was **** I'd go straight onto spirits. The lack of gas is probably the main reason old people drink ale/ beer though, right?

There are some absolutely awful big-name largers too though, Fosters, Carling, Calrsberg etc, but I'm sure most people just drink these as they're a name and quite cheap, and there's no other cheap alternative. I don't actually mind Coors light though, and that's quite cheap.

Most of the quirky largers like camden hells are awful too, I'm convinced people only drink that as they've been to Camden once or twice when they were younger, and they're trying to hold onto that youth.

Pale ale tastes like both of the worst parts of larger and ale to me, so that's out also.

I think Moretti is my favourite, along with Peroni and Estrella, but they're just so expensive. I don't go out often now though, so I just accept it. Most larger drinkers I know all like these too, but some just won't pay the price, which is fair enough.

 

[Colgates_shaving_foam]

Yeah, I think it does get more of a write-up than it warrants, the thing is the people reviewing these things are people that actually like the stuff or they just pretend they like it. They should have the write-ups done by a panel of 10 common folk.

I'm not surprised about your micro pubs comment, most people just drink what they like, but I still think a lot of the people who are younger and who drink the random stuff do it just to be quirky/ trendy. I must have been to about 20 larger/ beer festivals and 95% of it tastes like crap, to me anyway. Every time I go to one it's like deja vu, drink a few supposed normal strength/ normal type beers, get disappointed they taste like crap, so then move onto something extremely fruity which masks the taste, and get it as strogn as possible so half the volume has the same effect.

The only time I would drink beer by choice is if I didn't fancy gassy larger, and if I was only having a couple, this would be rare as I normally either drink none or lots. But if I did fancy the gas, and the larger was **** I'd go straight onto spirits. The lack of gas is probably the main reason old people drink ale/ beer though, right?

There are some absolutely awful big-name largers too though, Fosters, Carling, Calrsberg etc, but I'm sure most people just drink these as they're a name and quite cheap, and there's no other cheap alternative. I don't actually mind Coors light though, and that's quite cheap.

Most of the quirky largers like camden hells are awful too, I'm convinced people only drink that as they've been to Camden once or twice when they were younger, and they're trying to hold onto that youth.

Pale ale tastes like both of the worst parts of larger and ale to me, so that's out also.

I think Moretti is my favourite, along with Peroni and Estrella, but they're just so expensive. I don't go out often now though, so I just accept it. Most larger drinkers I know all like these too, but some just won't pay the price, which is fair enough.

Coors light is probably my favourite lager as it so crisp and clean, the problem is it's so weak at about 4% I think. I mentioned this on here before and someone recommended Madri as being a bit similar to coors light but like a premium version.

I gave Madri a go and it is pretty good.

I usually still drink Moretti or Peroni when out as not as many places have Madri, in my experience anyway.

 

[Andy_W]

Coors light is probably my favourite lager as it so crisp and clean, the problem is it's so weak at about 4% I think. I mentioned this on here before and someone recommended Madri as being a bit similar to coors light but like a premium version.

I gave Madri a go and it is pretty good.

I usually still drink Moretti or Peroni when out as not as many places have Madri, in my experience anyway.

Yeah my thoughts exactly on Coors, it goes down very easily, but the 4% is a problem. I'd have to drink 5 in the same time I drink 4, and I would get bloated quickly

I'm not that keen on Madri, it tastes a bit "thick" to me, and quite strong tasting, but only had it a couple of times.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

Coors light is probably my favourite lager as it so crisp and clean, the problem is it's so weak at about 4% I think. I mentioned this on here before and someone recommended Madri as being a bit similar to coors light but like a premium version.

I gave Madri a go and it is pretty good.

I usually still drink Moretti or Peroni when out as not as many places have Madri, in my experience anyway.

I'm not out to get drunk, though it often happens, so I don't mind 4% lagers. When I was buying ales in years ago they were often less than 4% to suit the social club lads who wanted long sessions. If it tasted good they were ok with it.

Back in the late 70's Cameron's brought out a brew called Crown Ale, tasted lovely but stronger than the normal session beers. We had old blokes wanting to fight, crying and falling over. It didn't last very long.

I know stronger drinks are on offer now but where are the youngsters to make them worthwhile stocking?

 

[Andy_W]

I'm not out to get drunk, though it often happens, so I don't mind 4% lagers. When I was buying ales in years ago they were often less than 4% to suit the social club lads who wanted long sessions. If it tasted good they were ok with it.

Back in the late 70's Cameron's brought out a brew called Crown Ale, tasted lovely but stronger than the normal session beers. We had old blokes wanting to fight, crying and falling over. It didn't last very long.

I know stronger drinks are on offer now but where are the youngsters to make them worthwhile stocking?

I suppose I'm the same now, usually aim to be in bed by midnight and with no hangover the next day, whereas not long back that would be more like 4am and two day hangover pencilled in

I didn't mind Ayeingerbrau from the Linny, but I was young then and didn't know any better, I think that was strong stuff, and super cheap.

The young uns don't seem to drink now, or seem to drink less, which is a good thing (for their health, not for pubs though). The ones who do drink all just pre-drink at friends' houses, as pubs are far too expensive. By the time they get to bars/ clubs they're hammered already.

 

[Priv]

Let me stop you right there. Being bright is a starting point, not a trump card. She has zero experience of the product, the industry, the market and absolutely zero feel. She also has not learned.
Charlene Lyons worked at M&S as a fashion buyer in her mid twenties.
She is no Roger Whiteside who was an ex M&S man and worked wonders as CEO at Punch and Greggs.
My Auntie added as much to M&S as Lyons, when Food Department supervisor in Stockton store.
As I say, let's see how she emerges to see what her motives have been from day one. It is not hard to work out. As I say, prior servicing/experience of Mike Ashley should give a clue.

Paul is an arrogant old man who still thinks the business is his and only he can run it.
Rob at least puts the effort in and is a brewery man. Jo is to marketing what he is to hard work.
The family have blocked investment repeatedly, yet haven't the intention or capability to invest themselves.
Camra is the biggest shareholder and has been for many many years.
The last Chairman did bring in investment (now the 2nd largest shareholder), which enabled in house packaging lines and prevented previous reliance on and cost drain to Marstons.
The last Finance Director did bring in a self sourced life saving Covid Insurance payout which literally bought the company two more years and turned a £1m Operating loss into a £1m PBT in 2021. The family moaned because he got a bonus for saving them!!
The York brewery deal was done for cherry bobs and one of BSB's problems has been a lack of retail estate. The pubs have more than washed their faces. The deal was done for the pubs not the beer.

The product development has been self indulgent distraction and had no traction.
They have simply never seriously capitalised on their great core products. They should absolutely dominate Yorkshire, the goodwill for the product amongst punters is huge. The beer is great and relatively easy to keep - a huge asset for Cask. The brewery could have had retail estate, could have had mass distribution, but were complacent. They should also be in London as TimmyTaylors is, but wouldn't put the people in that TT's did.
The handling of Black Sheep Coffee and permitting them to continue has been scandalously badly handled. An abject lesson in laziness and incompetence, at the very least.

BSB are now disproportionately over-dependent on Off Trade and make no money from it. They haven't taken price despite crippling pressures for so many years it is laughable, until this year's amateur hour effort.
Somebody said "return to profit" higher up. What a joke. The business has not run at a profit for more than a handful of years in the last twenty.

(For those who don't know, Black Sheep was founded (brilliantly) in 1992 by Paul Theakston who was the only family member who would not support the sale of Theakstons Brewery to S&N. Great beer, great brand, hundreds of small shareholders as fans of the idea of retaining a high quality brewery in Masham. It was a wonderful story.
Theakstons disappeared into S&N, then ultimately Heineken and are still dependent on Heineken. Black Sheep is a much bigger business than Theakstons.
Paul Theakston went from charismatic founder to obstinate hand brake sadly and has missed so very many chances to scale things profitably.
The insistence on his sons being heavily involved in running a business they are not capable of running is one reason for the clusterfuck.
The blocking of any serious inward investment in to the business is another.
The unwillingness to understand that a serious business needs commercial competence to survive, let alone thrive, is yet another).

They have lost some good people over the last year, but retained the hangers on.

There could have been a great coming back together of dominant BSB with Theakstons and a huge Masham story, but Paul & Simon simply don't trust each other. It is really sad.

The brews and the brand will not completely die, like Theakstons hasn't, but sadly it will now never be what it could have been at the end of that first decade at the turn of the century.
I wish I was 20 years younger now.

You seem to know an awful lot, who was (is) John Theakston, how was he tied in, I was sat next to him at a corporate event probably 12 years ago and he was explaining all to me but i was a tad drunk as their was a free bar so cant actually remember what he told me.

 

[atypical_boro]

I know stronger drinks are on offer now but where are the youngsters to make them worthwhile stocking?

Its millenials, not Gen-Z, who are buying the expensive craft ales at 7-9% and £7 a pint.