Boro under Carrick are a long term project

the_dormouse said:
People keep talking talking about the Brighton/Brentford model but their secret is their record in the transfer is amazing.
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That’s not luck or accidental, it’s having a strong recruitment department, investing in it. That’s what we are trying. It also requires the club to accept that there will be transfer failures. Brentford took a decade really to grow and improve to where they are now
 
Building a team carefully over multiple seasons simply doesn't happen in the Championship.
Players are not on long enough contracts, very good players simply get bought. There is continuity only of mediocrity.

You take promotion out of the Championship whenever you can. If that involves loan players so be it.
If you own a little quality then hire in to fill the gaps, because the quality will leave if you don't go up.
Stop pretending we can iteratively build a team with continuity and steadily rising stock. If they are good they go up whether we do or not.
Burnley brought in 21 players last season.
Luton brought in 13 players last season.
There is upheaval in every squad every season in this league.

For Boro:
13 players were recruited last season inc 6 loans.
16 the season before inc 5 loans.
11 the season before inc 4 loans.
Even Woodgate brought in 9.

It is not about how much stability you think you have across seasons, it is about recruitment providing good enough players and the manager getting the best out of them.
This idea of recruiting young prospects who may grow in value is fine for mitigating losses within this league, but puts a hell of a strain on a coach getting a team up to the PL.
So the promising coach becomes scapegoat, protecting the real cause of the problem - poor recruitment.
 
Carrick must be given time, he’s a rookie manager and he’s going to make lots of mistakes but let’s not forget he got us within a smidgen of the premier league last season. Had Howson Fletcher and Forss not got injured at the tail end of the season we may well have gone up. Gibson sacked Karanka far too soon when if he’d kept him he would probably have taken us back up after we’d gone down from the prem. This is not the squad that will finish the season, we will make more signings and loans that will transform this team from the stuttering start we have had. Don’t forget we’d played one third of the season before Carrick arrived last year and still made the playoffs. Stay cool, this is a marathon not a sprint, have a beer and look forward to another cracking season - UTB 👍🏻
 
Boromad1967 said:
Well that makes me feel so much better???
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We’re one point down on last season..

Zach Steffen- Seny Dieng - similar level
Joe Lumley/Tom Glover - consistent
Luke Daniels/Jamie Jones - similar level
Grant Hall/Rav Van Den Berg - more technical
Darnell Fisher/Terrell Agyemang - technical
Ryan Giles/Lukas Engel - more defensive
Alex Mowett/Martin Payero - not seen it
Chuba Akpom/Morgan Rogers - more like tav
Aaron Ramsey/Sam Silvera - more robust
Ste Walker/Daniel Nkrumah - next level
Matthew Hope/Alex Gilbert - next level
Cameron Archer/Emmanuel Latte Lath - two good half seasons vs one good season in the Swiss league.. Latte Lath has two inches on Archer.

Considering we didn’t even have a lot of these players available at the start of last season.. I think we’re doing well.

Sounds like a replace the for Coburn might be coming in.. maybe Payero? McNair? Dijksteel? Barlaser?
 
gravy173 said:
We were told we were aiming for top 2 remember, maybe that was just bull$hit coming out of carrick or perhaps he’s not on the same page as Kieron Scott
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He very well may be aiming for top 2. Most managers in this league probably know that if the stars align, you can build momentum and you have the right “combination” of players (not necessarily the best players) you can challenge. Whether Gibson/Bausor/Scott agree we’ll never know as we hear little from them, and last time Gibson talked about aiming for automatic promotion he phrased it quite clumsily.

Our poor form started last season when we had the “right” players but we lost momentum. We do need to get more players in, but even that doesn’t guarantee momentum coming back. We will, no doubt, do our usual and reassess everything in late October before deciding what the realistic aim is this season, and who will be spear-heading it. But recent history tells us that managers aren’t really “long term projects”.
 
Funky_Chicken said:
Carrick must be given time, he’s a rookie manager and he’s going to make lots of mistakes but let’s not forget he got us within a smidgen of the premier league last season. Had Howson Fletcher and Forss not got injured at the tail end of the season we may well have gone up. Gibson sacked Karanka far too soon when if he’d kept him he would probably have taken us back up after we’d gone down from the prem. This is not the squad that will finish the season, we will make more signings and loans that will transform this team from the stuttering start we have had. Don’t forget we’d played one third of the season before Carrick arrived last year and still made the playoffs. Stay cool, this is a marathon not a sprint, have a beer and look forward to another cracking season - UTB 👍🏻
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Karanka had 3 seasons to get us up.. then it was the recruitment that let us down until Woodgate took over.
 
10 wins in 12 at one point under wilder, a poor end to the season, didn’t get our targets in we all know what happened the three things notated there have happened again, it’s scary. My hope is I believe last season we were at a completely different level under carrick, with wilder at one point despite your feelings regarding him he had us playing some very good stuff. Ultimately the differences are wilder openly did not shut down the Burnley speculation and felt like from the off he didn’t want to be here the complete opposite to carrick who put to bed the early palace rumours but wilder said himself we didn’t get the signings we needed we started the season on the back foot, if it wasn’t for Chuba coming into he’s own we would have been left with that lump muniz, and rely on Matthew hopscotch off the bench, January was a success but to me that’s more to do with the pull of carrick than anything. Warnock himself said he wanted archer on a pod and the club did not go out and try and get him and we lost out to Preston bloody Preston, last season watching the Coventry game at home you see the dabs of real top quality draw mixed with the same drab mcnair jones crooks etc these are simply not good enogh for a team viang for promotion. I thought this summer we’d be ruthless I knew we’d lose giles and archer but I thought we’d have that killer instinct and do everything to go all in to make this season the year, we haven’t we’ve lost our best players and have waited till the back end of the window to try and scrabble our way out of another hole, with the same old bog standard championship players crooks mcnair jones etc being regulars again, no professionalism you can’t lose your best players and expect to pick up gems two weeks into the season on the cheap and get the same results. Warnock started poorly got the chop wilder started poorly got the chop it could end up three on the bounce, i don’t like wilder but he openly said he didn’t have the targets or players we needed and the recruitment team fishing in Poundland expecting they’ll be good enough. I have zero faith in Scott and I think bausor should have gone years ago. Gibson has continuously made mistake after mistake for years, I’d never question gibsons intentions as such but he simply is not this brilliant chairman fans paint him out to be. He once was but he’s not now, the team that started these two games are a complete insult to the 22,000 people who have paid ridiculous amount of money for season cards our aim was supposed to be top 2 which feels like we’re being lied to and strung along as muppets. It may feel like an overreaction and “ bed wetting” but it’s the same familiar trend every season. The recruitment team are going to **** away a brilliant young gem of a manager and let another season slip through our fingers, massive two weeks for the club to prove us “ bedwetters” wrong
 
Borokian1876 said:
10 wins in 12 at one point under wilder, a poor end to the season, didn’t get our targets in we all know what happened the three things notated there have happened again, it’s scary. My hope is I believe last season we were at a completely different level under carrick, with wilder at one point despite your feelings regarding him he had us playing some very good stuff. Ultimately the differences are wilder openly did not shut down the Burnley speculation and felt like from the off he didn’t want to be here the complete opposite to carrick who put to bed the early palace rumours but wilder said himself we didn’t get the signings we needed we started the season on the back foot, if it wasn’t for Chuba coming into he’s own we would have been left with that lump muniz, and rely on Matthew hopscotch off the bench, January was a success but to me that’s more to do with the pull of carrick than anything. Warnock himself said he wanted archer on a pod and the club did not go out and try and get him and we lost out to Preston bloody Preston, last season watching the Coventry game at home you see the dabs of real top quality draw mixed with the same drab mcnair jones crooks etc these are simply not good enogh for a team viang for promotion. I thought this summer we’d be ruthless I knew we’d lose giles and archer but I thought we’d have that killer instinct and do everything to go all in to make this season the year, we haven’t we’ve lost our best players and have waited till the back end of the window to try and scrabble our way out of another hole, with the same old bog standard championship players crooks mcnair jones etc being regulars again, no professionalism you can’t lose your best players and expect to pick up gems two weeks into the season on the cheap and get the same results. Warnock started poorly got the chop wilder started poorly got the chop it could end up three on the bounce, i don’t like wilder but he openly said he didn’t have the targets or players we needed and the recruitment team fishing in Poundland expecting they’ll be good enough. I have zero faith in Scott and I think bausor should have gone years ago. Gibson has continuously made mistake after mistake for years, I’d never question gibsons intentions as such but he simply is not this brilliant chairman fans paint him out to be. He once was but he’s not now, the team that started these two games are a complete insult to the 22,000 people who have paid ridiculous amount of money for season cards our aim was supposed to be top 2 which feels like we’re being lied to and strung along as muppets. It may feel like an overreaction and “ bed wetting” but it’s the same familiar trend every season. The recruitment team are going to **** away a brilliant young gem of a manager and let another season slip through our fingers, massive two weeks for the club to prove us “ bedwetters” wrong
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Nope I’m not reading that without some paragraphs
 
iamborome said:
It suggests that Carrick is committing himself to the club and we need to give him time.
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I hope so but I’m not sure it does - it suggests to me that we’re not backing a manager who achieved brilliant things last season by starting the season with a squad that’s much worse than the season before and letting our best player leave.

But let’s see, aware that there’s still a lot of time in the window left.
 
Borokian1876 said:
No, Gibson just won’t invest and the recruitment team have let us down. Stop glossing over the reality, it’s a “ long term” project every season.
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Usually we get 'it's a transition year' or a 're-build year' - long term project is a new one. It's all bollox just situation normal. I'm not frustrated, we are a decent Champo club, not a big city, modest & sensible funding, good local owner, decent facilities, hard core of 15k or so loyal fans. This is how it's always been apart from some amazing bursts at the top every now & then and then back down to reality. Just enjoy it, align your expectations that this is what the Boro is. If you want PL glory all the time then support Man City or for a more exciting project then go and follow Newcastle, you'll enjoy your football better.
 
For the first time in a long time I'm optimistic that the club is on the right track again. Apart from a couple of seasons under Karanka, I'm struggling to see what the long term goal was for the club going back to our premiership days - other than to waste money on journeyman players and journeyman managers in a hope we'd fluke a play off place. I think we tried with Woodgate to go in a new direction, but he wasn't up to it.

Getting Carrick to come here and commit to building a squad of young players he can help develop is finally a goal that makes sense for a club like Boro. I think last season surprised everyone, I don't for one moment think Carrick, or Gibson et al, thought we'd go on the run we did and nearly get over the line. I think it surprised everyone how quickly his ideas were took on board and nearly worked. It was a great season, but it may have set expectations too high and too early. This season we as fans naturally expect us to emulate what we saw, but realistically this is a long term plan the club are putting in place. I think the days of turgid football and the likes of Gestede and Aaron Connolly wearing the shirt are gone. And if last season is anything to go by, the football we're going to play is going to be a joy to watch along the way.
 
iamborome said:
I was hoping we would keep Chuba and Gibbo would splash the cash in a dash for promotion. It is clear now that is not going to happen. Instead the club is investing in promising young players and looking to build for the medium/long term under Carrick. That being the case everyone should calm down and stop being so negative. It suggests that Carrick is committing himself to the club and we need to give him time. I am sure that Carrick will get the team to gel before long and these two defeats will be forgotten about. I suspect we won't win promotion this season, but I am very optimistic about the future.
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I honestly dont think the manager matters. The club are going in the direction its going and whoever is the figurehead gets what he's given. Hopefully Carricks bought into that, the three previous managers didnt even though they knew what they where joining. It looks to me like another hopeful playoff push
 
Boro said:
Usually we get 'it's a transition year' or a 're-build year' - long term project is a new one. It's all bollox just situation normal. I'm not frustrated, we are a decent Champo club, not a big city, modest & sensible funding, good local owner, decent facilities, hard core of 15k or so loyal fans. This is how it's always been apart from some amazing bursts at the top every now & then and then back down to reality. Just enjoy it, align your expectations that this is what the Boro is. If you want PL glory all the time then support Man City or for a more exciting project then go and follow Newcastle, you'll enjoy your football better.
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These are usually my sentiments, and they still are, the only snag being that one season in the PL out of 15 is actually not normal for us (or going longer than 7 seasons out of it).

We need to find a way back in there in the relatively near future otherwise it suggests a permanent downward trajectory for the club, I’d say. I’m not even that bothered about being in the PL, but we are traditionally a yo-yo club in danger of becoming just a second tier club perpetually treading water.

I’m all for fans being realistic but its kind of understandable for them to moan if we’re not what we used to be on any level. We should fully accept spells out of the PL, but it’s now becoming a real rarity for us to be in it.
 
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