Brexit benefits part 3453

Scrote said:
Because everything that was being said at the time pointed directly towards that eventuality.

It wasn't even a case of reading between the lines. It was just listen to what people are saying.

Labour were committed to a soft Brexit to the point that they would have happily pivoted to no Brexit at all if they'd been able to show it was unworkable.

The Tories were still filling the airwaves with promises of sunlit uplands.

It wasn't difficult to work out.
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That's simply not true. There were plenty of voices in the Tory party for a soft brexit. I'm not entirely sure whether you guys have short memories are you're just twisting what happened to attack me.

If its the latter the point is moot anyyay becasue I've told you all enough that I didn't vote on brexit lines
 
Unravel_Morrison said:
No, it 100% is due to us being outside the EU.

The rules haven't changed as such; us and the EU don't recognise each other's general standards; which is why phytosanitary documentation and checks are now required for individual shipments.

The competent authority that allows and governs exports into and within the EU is effectively the European Commission. For the UK, we now have government agencies that set and enforce (or not) the rules in place, depending on the issues. For this recent set of checks, it's DEFRA who are in charge and it is their rules that the vets and health inspectors are signing off.

It's currently a bit of a waste of time as the standards are basically the same but it's what people voted for I guess.
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I see the usual brexot tactics of ignoring the problem and deflecting by attacking whomever raises it is working so I'll try and bring things back to issues and not petty personal attacks:

This sounds such a waste of time and money. Its so sad that this could have been avoided.
 
SmallTown said:
I'm not saying it's controversial. Just not as obvious as people are suggesting. I guess hindsight is 20-20.
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I'm not looking to fall out but you often allude to people paying attention and anyone looking even casually at the two parties back then could see the clear split with the likes of Grieve, Allen, Soubry et al leaving due to the splits in the Tories. That just didn't exist in the Labour Party in relation to Brexit.
 
Unravel_Morrison said:
I'm not looking to fall out but you often allude to people paying attention and anyone looking even casually at the two parties back then could see the clear split with the likes of Grieve, Allen, Soubry et al leaving due to the splits in the Tories. That just didn't exist in the Labour Party in relation to Brexit.
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Fair enough.
 
SmallTown said:
That's simply not true. There were plenty of voices in the Tory party for a soft brexit. I'm not entirely sure whether you guys have short memories are you're just twisting what happened to attack me.

If its the latter the point is moot anyyay becasue I've told you all enough that I didn't vote on brexit lines
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Which bit isn't true?

As Unravel_Morrison has mentioned the Tories were split but the Tory leadership were headed in one direction - hard brexit.

Labour famously managed to confuse the sensible centrists which allowed them to vote Tory to keep Corbyn and some light touch socialism away from their hard earned untaxed income.

The only chance of anything approaching a soft brexit was to vote Labour. Any suggestion otherwise is fantasy.

And you DID vote on brexit lines because that's what the election was fought on. You can't pretend you didn't notice.
 
Scrote said:
Which bit isn't true?

As Unravel_Morrison has mentioned the Tories were split but the Tory leadership were headed in one direction - hard brexit.
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Maybe your memory is playing tricks with you, but Remember right up until the "oven ready" deal was finally signed talk of rebelion over the softness of the brexit. I guess you jsut can't remember that.

And no, I didn't vote for brexit. I'll explain it to you for one final time, because I think now you're delibrately not understanding:

I believe, as most of the electorate did, that the voting choices were:
Vote Tory, get brexit
Vote Labour, Get Brexit
Vote Green, chance to reverse brexit
Vote Lib Dem, chance to reverse brexit.

I had two choices in my constituency, A labour candidate who didn't know her own parties manifesto or a Tory.
Given both parties woudl have given me the brexit I knew was bad, It made no sense to vote on that. Unless you take the same logic and saying that if I voted Labour I also "voted for brexit" Which, of course, I did not.
 
SmallTown said:
Maybe your memory is playing tricks with you, but Remember right up until the "oven ready" deal was finally signed talk of rebelion over the softness of the brexit. I guess you jsut can't remember that.

And no, I didn't vote for brexit. I'll explain it to you for one final time, because I think now you're delibrately not understanding:

I believe, as most of the electorate did, that the voting choices were:
Vote Tory, get brexit
Vote Labour, Get Brexit
Vote Green, chance to reverse brexit
Vote Lib Dem, chance to reverse brexit.

I had two choices in my constituency, A labour candidate who didn't know her own parties manifesto or a Tory.
Given both parties woudl have given me the brexit I knew was bad, It made no sense to vote on that. Unless you take the same logic and saying that if I voted Labour I also "voted for brexit" Which, of course, I did not.
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It's your memory that's not working. The "Oven Ready Deal" was agreed before the election took place. Johnson promised to implement it and "get brexit done". There was no ambiguity.

By voting Tory you explicitly voted for that deal and a hard brexit.

Green and the Liberals had no chance of power so the only sensible option for anyone against a hard brexit was to vote Labour.

Labour had clarified, prior to the election, that they would not be bound by anything and that "voters would be able to choose between a "credible Leave option" and Remain".

You may have had other priorities but the Tory manifesto had the "oven ready deal" brexit as a core manifesto promise.

You chose to vote for Brexit. There's no getting round that.
 
Scrote said:
It's your memory that's not working. The "Oven Ready Deal" was agreed before the election took place. Johnson promised to implement it and "get brexit done". There was no ambiguity.

By voting Tory you explicitly voted for that deal and a hard brexit.

Green and the Liberals had no chance of power so the only sensible option for anyone against a hard brexit was to vote Labour.

Labour had clarified, prior to the election, that they would not be bound by anything and that "voters would be able to choose between a "credible Leave option" and Remain".

You may have had other priorities but the Tory manifesto had the "oven ready deal" brexit as a core manifesto promise.

You chose to vote for Brexit. There's no getting round that.
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You're simply incorrect, as Labour would have implemented brexit too. I'm hoping you know this. But I've shown you my logic. And you obviously forget all the arguments about the shaoe of the deal after the election. But that's OK, I forgive you it was a long time ago
 
Labour had adopted the idea of a second brexit referendum prior to the 2019 election hadn't they ? So voting for them was voting for that v "get Brexit done"
 
SmallTown said:
And you obviously forget all the arguments about the shaoe of the deal after the election. But that's OK, I forgive you it was a long time ago
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What has anything after the election got to do with you voting for the Tories on a "get brexit done" ticket?

SmallTown said:
You're simply incorrect, as Labour would have implemented brexit too
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Wrong. Labour were offering a way out. It wasn't guaranteed but it was the best option for anyone as rabidly anti-brexit as you're positioning yourself now.

The problem is that the damage is done and you helped to cause it.
 
Scrote said:
What has anything after the election got to do with you voting for the Tories on a "get brexit done" ticket?


Wrong. Labour were offering a way out. It wasn't guaranteed but it was the best option for anyone as rabidly anti-brexit as you're positioning yourself now.

The problem is that the damage is done and you helped to cause it.
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I guess we are at an impasse. You want to balme me for brexit and say I voted for it. I know o didn't. But this is the Internet I guess, strangers like you can tell me what I'm thinking. When the debate gets down to thay there is no more reason or logic.

So I'll give you this, at least you KNOW brexot is a failure. At least you know to try and blame someone, I'll give you that.

But when you start saying I literally did something for reasons I didn't then I'm out. I can't debate with someone who just lies
 
SmallTown said:
But when you start saying I literally did something for reasons I didn't then I'm out. I can't debate with someone who just lies
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I've never suggested you did anything for a particular reason. You've said yourself that you voted Tory for other priorities in your life.

However, voting Tory in 2019 was a de facto vote in favour of a hard brexit.

SmallTown said:
Delegates rejected a motion which called on the party to back Remain outright in all circumstances
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That would have been political suicide and you know it. Labour did everything they could to get Brexit reversed or, at the very least, mitigated to the point of irrelevance. You chose to vote against that.
 
I'm not really that bothered about the politics of what happened back then; what is done is done. You could argue that I voted for Corbyn over Johnson when the Labour MP I voted for was one of Corbyn's biggest enemies within the PLP

Just to go back to the original report where this started, I've had to do a bit more work on this with the first set of rules coming in; received a load of silliness from an unprepared (UK based) supplier.

The £200 million cost (per year) is the estimated cost of the October changes, which is the figure from industry “These increased costs will apply in October and be passed straight on to consumers,”; the initial costs, which are government estimates are £330 million per year from this first set of rule changes.

Not all the costs are down to Brexit as we would have had to bring in some of these changes for non-EU imports but it will make all food and drink more expensive for consumers and even what would have been affected even more expensive.

It is likely that any cost increases will be due to Brexit by somewhere between a third and two thirds for consumers depending on what your patterns of consumption are. On average between 2019 and 2021, approximately 35% of cost increases for food and drinks was Brexit related (LSE study) and it's bound to increase with the rule changes.
 
Unravel_Morrison said:
Not all the costs are down to Brexit as we would have had to bring in some of these changes for non-EU imports but it will make all food and drink more expensive for consumers and even what would have been affected even more expensive.

It is likely that any cost increases will be due to Brexit by somewhere between a third and two thirds for consumers depending on what your patterns of consumption are. On average between 2019 and 2021, approximately 35% of cost increases for food and drinks was Brexit related (LSE study) and it's bound to increase with the rule changes.
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I think this is a slaient point. which, wierdly helps both arguemnts. Of course not all costs are due to brexit, the world has changed quite a buit since 2016. Global pandemics, a European war and subsequent energy price hikes have affacted things. This helps the brexit defenders of course. Because they use these events to hide from the effects of brexit. The point is brexit is exaccerbating all of the porblems we have at the moment. The ridiculous way the UK voted to place eocnomic sanction on itself has made any financial crisis worse. It's like an immune disorder for the economy. Yes it'll still be hit with global financial hits, but it's made it much harder to keep with them. Made us more likely to get "sick"
 
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