Brexit Britain misses World trade upturn [L.E]

[SmallTown]

Don`t think he`s calling anyone dumb

I see it is he`s saying the whole Brexit debacle is being downplayed or trivialised by those that voted for it

He's not. @Same_as_before has some sort of mental issues with this. He believes every single anti brexit comment, no matter what it is: directly means the poster is calling brexit voters dumb.

It's stuck in his head now and no matter how wrong he is he just has to repeat it everytime he tries to defend brexit

 

[Same_as_before]

Don`t think he`s calling anyone dumb

I see it is he`s saying the whole Brexit debacle is being downplayed or trivialised by those that voted for it

'Dumbed down nation', you are right I can't read and do have half a brain cell.

Unless a nation does not constitute it's inhabitants.

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[SmallTown]

Because we are a democracy and people can vote how they want. A lad wanted me banned off here because I disagreed with him.

I love the way this is your defence: we can destroy the countries economy because we are aowed to vote to damge the economy.

Brexit defences are getting worse and worse and much less logical

 

[Same_as_before]

What we need to do is; destroy Boris, show him up. Go at him.

 

[ForssAwakens]

See above I personally know a headteacher and many teachers with half a brain cell

I am more convinced that Brexit was right today than I have ever been. But that's based on half a brain cell.

Evaluate what makes you more convinced today than it did 6 years ago

 

[Chris_Boro]

What we need to do is; destroy Boris, show him up. Go at him.

Using the catastrophe that is Brexit helps that aim.

 

[Same_as_before]

Last week there was the same debate with the same insults, dragging onto comments about my mental health. I am not going there.

I will drop out now. Have a great day.

 

[ForssAwakens]

This is a very rare and commendable comment.

Here's the thing: it's OK to admit mistakes. It's fine, especially given how both the campaigns were ran. There was very little information and just emotive language on both sides. So none of us really voted with any clue as to what we were voting for.

It's even OK to support the principle of brexit based on doubts about the EU and it's future direction.

My only concern is people defend brexit now, because they feel they have to, and fail to acknowledge that the current version of brexit is extremely damaging to our country

I based my decision on my very limited knowledge or European economics, which proved to be off the mark. I thought Greece bailout etc I could see a failure of more European and more bailouts. I didn’t want the U.K. to pay more for a currency we weren’t apart of.

What it proved is my knowledge was very limited but I was asked to vote. I made my own mind up cos the stuff out there seemed too wild and it should have never been left to people to make the decision

 

[SmallTown]

Last week there was the same debate with the same insults, dragging onto comments about my mental health. I am not going there.

I will drop out now. Have a great day.

To be fair. You've literally made uo the "dumb" insult. It's all in your head. Everyone else is trying to debate and asking you why you still belive in brexit. The fact that you can't answer this question and have to pretend you are being insulted is very telling.

 

[ForssAwakens]

Last week there was the same debate with the same insults, dragging onto comments about my mental health. I am not going there.

I will drop out now. Have a great day.

Convenient when I asked you for an evaluation

 

[Frozen Horse]

You can vote any way you want.

But with authority comes responsibility, always.

Should the side you vote for win, you share in the accountability.

This seems as fundamental aspect of democracy as voting for anyone you want.

 

[Chris_Boro]

We literally have a ministerial position in parliament in which it is their job to provide and promote to voters the benefits of Brexit.

If anyone knows of any, please let Rees-Mogg know. (Other than still being able to hide his millions in a tax heaven, he already knows that one)

 

[SmallTown]

I based my decision on my very limited knowledge or European economics, which proved to be off the mark. I thought Greece bailout etc I could see a failure of more European and more bailouts. I didn’t want the U.K. to pay more for a currency we weren’t apart of.

What it proved is my knowledge was very limited but I was asked to vote. I made my own mind up cos the stuff out there seemed too wild and it should have never been left to people to make the decision

That's a fair enough reason. I do feel the remain campaign just didn't put enough emphasis on the differences between the schengen agreement, the eurozone and the EU.

It failed to emphasise how strong the pound was and how that would shield us from some of the bail outs. Its well known that the EU wants everyone to use the Euro but two countries, ourselves and Sweden would always resist this and are highly unlikely to join the Euro. The strength we had as en EU country just wasn't made clear at all. The power of veto (especially on things like resisting a european army) , the strength of our currency, the strength of our border compared to schengen and even, as the pandemic proved, the autonomy of our healthcare regulator above the EMEA.

All these things have come out now, when it's too late

 

[Sergio]

Brexit was a bad idea. Covid and Russia certainly hasnt helped, plus the fact we have the most openly corrupt government this country has ever seen in power hasnt helped either. They are not going to push for the working class voters they duped into believing their bull. Everytime the Tories get in the country ends up on its @r$£ yet people still vote for them. Pit villages with Tory MPs, what a time to be alive! All this when its nearly £2 a litre and Shell are paying out £90m to shareholders. The rich get richer...

 

[Andy_W]

See above I personally know a headteacher and many teachers with half a brain cell

I am more convinced that Brexit was right today than I have ever been. But that's based on half a brain cell.

I wouldn't use teachers as an example of who voted where, to try and back up your argument.

I know about 20 teachers and maybe 3 headmasters well, I would estimate 90% of them never voted brexit, as far as I know, and the vast majority slate people that did. Come to think of it, I don't think 90% of them voted tory either, and most earn well above average wage, and are firmly in the middle class, especially for our area.

Being a teacher is no guarantee of knowledge on brexit or especially economics (which is the most crucial/ lied about aspect when it comes to Brexit), so they may be dumb on that topic, but most won't be.

The only two I know who voted brexit or at least Tory, are older, teach in private schools (no working class kids there) and earn around 50k and 80k+ respectively.

Older folk and Tories largely voted for brexit, as they largely vote in self interest, and no matter what happens with brexit they're likely secure anyway. Some of the young working class were conned (by the Older Folk/ Tories), and will likely be the ones who end up even worse off.

My bet is the younger working class folk have largely realised their errors, but the old Tories won't as it's not necessarily an error for them personally.

 

[SmallTown]

This is the problem I have with the staunch brexitees like @Same_as_before . He freely admits that he agrees to an article that shows how much our trade has been damaged. By that extension he must surely realise this means the poor in this country will be worse off due directly to brexit. Yet he STILL claims it's the correct thing to do and, when pushed on this, he makes up an excuse to not debate the issue. So deep down he knows he doesn't have a debate.

We know, just as we haven't "got brexit done" that we can't "get brexit undone" so the question should be: how do we fix the parts of brexit that are destroying the country? How do we repair trade, how do we restore freedom of movement, how do we get checks and balances restored that would stop the country being overwhelmed by corruption as it is at the moment?

The issue is we can't debate this with certain people because they just blindly, illogically and aggressively state they believe in the process that is destroying the country. That's the crazy thing about Same as: he's a self styled defender of the working class against the "metropolitan elite" yet he's defending a process that is crippling the working classes. It's such a bizarre hypocrisy.

 

[Chris_Boro]

That's a fair enough reason. I do feel the remain campaign just didn't put enough emphasis on the differences between the schengen agreement, the eurozone and the EU.

It failed to emphasise how strong the pound was and how that would shield us from some of the bail outs. Its well known that the EU wants everyone to use the Euro but two countries, ourselves and Sweden would always resist this and are highly unlikely to join the Euro. The strength we had as en EU country just wasn't made clear at all. The power of veto (especially on things like resisting a european army) , the strength of our currency, the strength of our border compared to schengen and even, as the pandemic proved, the autonomy of our healthcare regulator above the EMEA.

All these things have come out now, when it's too late

All of that information was irrelevant so as long as VoteLeave got away with saying "well if you Vote leave, the pound would be stronger" or generically "if you vote leave x would be better/stronger/less/more" etc, without any evidence required to back up their claim.

Remains argument was always going to be perceived as a negative one with leave free to sing the songs of the sunlit uplands and the cure to everyone's problems in a few 3 word slogans. Enough people were fooled.

 

[Piccadilly Day Tripper]

This is where we differ. It's quite an insult to people I know who voted Brexit to be classed as dumb, including teachers and a headmistress. Or do you mean the working class?


Instead of using cowardly generalisation, say who you mean.

Its a high view of yourself, what did my mam say about self praise?


I have no issue with the point of the OP.

headteachers are overrated.

 

[SmallTown]

All of that information was irrelevant so as long as VoteLeave got away with saying "well if you Vote leave, the pound would be stronger" or generically "if you vote leave x would be better/stronger/less/more" etc, without any evidence required to back up their claim.

Remains argument was always going to be perceived as a negative one with leave free to sing the songs of the sunlit uplands and the cure to everyone's problems in a few 3 word slogans. Enough people were fooled.

I know, but as I said it's ok to say you voted a certain way in 2016. There simply wasn't information on what the vote meant. There wasn't a roadmap for brexit. It's much less OK, to see the damage it's doing now and still say "yup, I'm happy with that"

 

[Nero]

As such, the OBR is still sticking to its view that Brexit will result in a 15 per cent drop in the UK’s trade intensity.

This was put to a few Tory MP's last week and they couldn't really answer. One tried to say Britain could now strike deals with growth areas in the world. Like that couldn't happen as part of the EU.

Brexit is a disaster and it's terrible that Politicians, Media and Businesses dare not say it. For those who were lied to, there is now objective evidence that EU membership was a good thing and Johnson's disastrous approach is now impacting the country in a really bad way. Why can't we just admit this?