Brexit Britain misses World trade upturn [L.E]

[American_Mary]

Any opportunity that Brexit may have presented has been well and truly scuppered by the shambles in charge, it was always going to be a difficult situation but the disgraceful power grab, mismanagement and deliberate sabotage by those in power has left us in a position of disarray,

The EU was and is far from perfect but what we have done is thrown the baby out with the bath water and allowed home governance to deflect blame onto the EU and the faults that existed have not been tackled and the divides continue to widen.

Johnson misrule has delivered mismanagement, poverty, inequality, social unrest, economic collapse and very little of any positivity in his tenure, and whilst Brexit has played a part the real culprit of all this is his inability to form coherent policy and deliver any kind of cogent leadership.

Brexit may have been a disaster under any PM but under Johnson that may became a certainty and the blame should be put firmly at his door, division and divide strengthen his position and whilst acknowledging the Brexit vote, to focus blame on each other allows the main culprit to maintain his position.

 

[Lefty]

Boris Johnson - part of the appalling cost of leaving.

 

[Chris_Boro]

I know, but as I said it's ok to say you voted a certain way in 2016. There simply wasn't information on what the vote meant. There wasn't a roadmap for brexit. It's much less OK, to see the damage it's doing now and still say "yup, I'm happy with that"

But if someone voted leave on a singular issue, what would make them look at Brexit and it's consequences as a whole now?

Logic has already left their particular train long ago, no point trying to convince them otherwise now.

There wasn't enough information for anyone to make an informed choice on Brexit, it simply should never have happened the way it did. Unfortunately vested interest won.

 

[SmallTown]

But if someone voted leave on a singular issue, what would make them look at Brexit and it's consequences as a whole now?

Logic has already left their particular train long ago, no point trying to convince them otherwise now.

There wasn't enough information for anyone to make an informed choice on Brexit, it simply should never have happened the way it did. Unfortunately vested interest won.

That's a good point. My worry is that single issue for most people was immigration.

 

[Nero]

There wasn't enough information for anyone to make an informed choice on Brexit, it simply should never have happened the way it did. Unfortunately vested interest won.

This is one of the key points that has to be explored in years to come (once this generation of awful politicians are long gone). The Referendum was a massive set-up designed to get a leave vote. Everything about it was wrong. The question was too basic, excluding 16 & 17 year old people wrong, not recognising the individual areas of the UK wrong. How can it be that Northern Ireland, Scotland and Gibraltar voted remain yet are dragged out by England and Wales?

Within a couple of generations I suspect the real reasons for Brexit will emerge. It will have absolutely nothing to do with so called sovereignty, trade deals and "making our own laws".

 

[Littlejimmy]

Leave were able to use a 3 word slogan (Take Back Control) and appeal to nebulous ideas like sovereignty and immigration while Remain were hampered by being represented by Cameron and Osborne who couldn't counter the arguments made without admitting it was their economic policies that had caused most of the perceived problems.

No matter, we could have respected the result and mitigated a lot of the damage by staying part of the SM/CU, but the ERG headbangers and the disaster capitalist cabal of Tufton Street (Matthew Elliot et al) jumped at the chance to get rid of May, install Bojo and push through the hardest Brexit possible, and also enabled the bunch of charlatans and yes men we have now who want to roll back all the rights and protections we had and take us back to Victorian times. Now the country is being fed to the libertarian dogs with energy bills and everything else going through the roof and their tax-dodging schemes are nicely squirreled away.

 

[Kosovo]

This a new thread about Brexit and find it shocking that mental issues are again brought into it. No need at all

 

[SmallTown]

This a new thread about Brexit and find it shocking that mental issues are again brought into it. No need at all

They aren't Same as has made that up to avoid admitting he doesn't know why he still supports brexit

 

[boroboy6872]

'Dumbed down nation', you are right I can't read and do have half a brain cell.

Unless a nation does not constitute it's inhabitants.

Like Reply

@Same_as_before

Come on man, I have no axe to grind with you and even if I did I wouldn`t insult your intelligence or your ability to read from behind a keyboard.

I`m sad that you think that I have and apologise if that`s what you think I was doing

Peace man

 

[Same_as_before]

This a new thread about Brexit and find it shocking that mental issues are again brought into it. No need at all

To be fair to all on here, I stated it happened last week. I don't think it has been brought up apart from my comment.

 

[Same_as_before]

@Same_as_before

Come on man, I have no axe to grind with you and even if I did I wouldn`t insult your intelligence or your ability to read from behind a keyboard.

I`m sad that you think that I have and apologise if that`s what you think I was doing

Peace man

In my case a few drops of Smooth. But not until the weekend.

The real issue of the week is ;Boro 3 Fulham 0

 

[Chris_Boro]

This is one of the key points that has to be explored in years to come (once this generation of awful politicians are long gone). The Referendum was a massive set-up designed to get a leave vote. Everything about it was wrong. The question was too basic, excluding 16 & 17 year old people wrong, not recognising the individual areas of the UK wrong. How can it be that Northern Ireland, Scotland and Gibraltar voted remain yet are dragged out by England and Wales?

Within a couple of generations I suspect the real reasons for Brexit will emerge. It will have absolutely nothing to do with so called sovereignty, trade deals and "making our own laws".

The real reasons for Brexit are all represented in the 800 year old Dracula incarnation known as Jacob Rees-Mogg.

 

[SmallTown]

To be fair to all on here, I stated it happened last week. I don't think it has been brought up apart from my comment.

Now we have established you haven't been insulted here: Would you care to answer why you think brexit is still a good idea? We are all pretty much waiting for this.

 

[Ipad1977]

See one of the problems with logically debating the various possible effects of Brexit is that a lot take it too personally, and any such debate quickly contains far too much mud-slinging and generalisations.

It is easy for a lot of leavers to generalise remainers as tree-hugging lefty liberals who've had the same CND T-shirt on for 40 odd years and smoke copious amounts of wacky baccy whilst playing the mandolin and easy for a lot of remainers to dismiss leavers as jail-tatted, knuckle-dragging pensioners who've been sat on the same bar-stool in The Brambles farm for decades since they last worked, only getting up to shuffle about to "There'll always be an England" in their bovver boots, before going back to complaining about things they know FA about.

This isn't just a NE thing either; shortly after the referendum I was waiting for a train at King's Cross underground when I was chatted to by a couple who looked perhaps in their early 60s and upon hearing my accent remarked "Ah yes, you're the ones who voted for Brexit then!" To which I replied calm as you like "Nah...apart from the idiots that make up YOUR generation of course. See, anyone can generalise."

I voted remain. I still think it was the right decision, but I respect the vote outcome as whilst some voted certainly for their own narrow-minded interests not future generations and some made decisions based on the only information they had available (which as a previous poster says was sketchy from both campaigns) at least they gave it some consideration. A huge number however didn't vote at all, believing it a foregone conclusion and thus they "didn't need to bother". Then got all het up about the outcome. Really??

The fact that the nation decided upon leave wasn't a reflection on classes or ill-thought out thoughts on immigration or the Euro in my view.
It was much more a reflection on the massive amount of apathetic indifference in their actions by many and expecting somebody else to wipe your backside for you to get the decision you wanted on your behalf. As there was a Facebook thread that needed following, the polling station was so far away and it was a bit of a nippy day out for late June....

 

[SmallTown]

I see @Same_as_before can't explain why he supports something that is affecting the working classes. Very telling

 

[Andy_W]

Brexit is a disaster and it's terrible that Politicians, Media and Businesses dare not say it. For those who were lied to, there is now objective evidence that EU membership was a good thing and Johnson's disastrous approach is now impacting the country in a really bad way. Why can't we just admit this?

To be fair, I've seen a few articles from the Express that seem against Brexit now, or at least acknowledging it's a massive mess. I'm not sure whether this is their general stance mind, as I certainly don't use it as a general news source.

They do say things like "we were lied too", and seemingly don't use phrases like "project fear" anymore, but even if they have switched opinions, it doesn't mean that in any way makes up for the crap they were spreading for pretty much the whole of the 2010's. The only way to even partially make up for the way they guided the susceptible is to try and actively guide them back the other way, to reality.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

This is where we differ. It's quite an insult to people I know who voted Brexit to be classed as dumb, including teachers and a headmistress. Or do you mean the working class?


Instead of using cowardly generalisation, say who you mean.

Its a high view of yourself, what did my mam say about self praise?


I have no issue with the point of the OP.

I didn't mention Brexit.

 

[Laughing]

To be fair, I've seen a few articles from the Express that seem against Brexit now, or at least acknowledging it's a massive mess. I'm not sure whether this is their general stance mind, as I certainly don't use it as a general news source.

They do say things like "we were lied too", and seemingly don't use phrases like "project fear" anymore, but even if they have switched opinions, it doesn't mean that in any way makes up for the crap they were spreading for pretty much the whole of the 2010's. The only way to even partially make up for the way they guided the susceptible is to try and actively guide them back the other way, to reality.

What it does demonstrate when the express are getting on the government's back is that their readers think the same.

The folks who think lots of people still support brexit are probably just wrong.

I do notice the mail are still pro Johnson though,or at least not on his back.

 

[Andy_W]

I voted remain. I still think it was the right decision, but I respect the vote outcome as whilst some voted certainly for their own narrow-minded interests not future generations and some made decisions based on the only information they had available (which as a previous poster says was sketchy from both campaigns) at least they gave it some consideration. A huge number however didn't vote at all, believing it a foregone conclusion and thus they "didn't need to bother". Then got all het up about the outcome. Really??

The fact that the nation decided upon leave wasn't a reflection on classes or ill-thought out thoughts on immigration or the Euro in my view.
It was much more a reflection on the massive amount of apathetic indifference in their actions by many and expecting somebody else to wipe your backside for you to get the decision you wanted on your behalf. As there was a Facebook thread that needed following, the polling station was so far away and it was a bit of a nippy day out for late June....

I respected the outcome, but not the deal (no deal) that we ended up with.

The common sense and least harmful approach should have been to remain in the SM and CU, until there ever came about something which could rival those.

I'm not so sure if the non-voters would have made that much of a difference, the late polling from general populations had swung it leave's way, largely as they blew all and over their budget in the final weeks of the campaign, and specifically targeted voters they could sway. They polls also underestimated the closet leave vote. Leave ran by far the better campaign, but they also had by far the easiest campaign to run. They could promise 1000 things, and it didn't matter one bit that half of them were contradictory. Running a campaign based on "keeping things largely the same" rarely has a good impact, especially when people don't realise what good that "same" is actually doing.

The tipping point can't have been about economical arguments, as anyone with half a clue about the economy would have saw straight through the leave lies.

For me there's just a massively underestimated amount of people who just don't like foreigners here, and the hatred overrides everything. But a lot of these same people think when they're abroad places should be honoured by their prescience, it's ridiculous.

There's also a massive amount of gullible people too, who unfortunately were specifically targeted.

 

[Andy_W]

What it does demonstrate when the express are getting on the government's back is that their readers think the same.

The folks who think lots of people still support brexit are probably just wrong.

I do notice the mail are still pro Johnson though,or at least not on his back.

Yeah it's hard to know if the tail is wagging the dog or vice versa.

I think the Express and Mail are two different types of "reader", and it's probably the mail lot who are the ones exploiting the express lot.

Who knows, we may see enough of a shift to get back in the SM and CU, which I think would be a fair compromise to the vast majority, rather than screwing over 90%, so 10% can take advantage.