Can you admit that Southgate is doing a great job yet?

atypical_boro said:
People said the overall standard was poor in 2018, right up until the final. France beat a Croatia they were always expected to beat and then everyone decided France were (and still are) brilliant.

TBF Brazil, Spain, France and England have all stood out in this tournament imho, and then Germany, Portugal, Netherlands and Argentina aren't out of it yet either.

I think its been a good World Cup so far and am already missing the 10am matches.
Click to expand...
Spain and France for me look very good not so sure about the rest
 
Donald_Pump said:
Nope…One of the strongest squads we’ve ever had at our disposal but one of the worst managers. Way to cautious and holding us back. Even if he won the World Cup I’d still think that as with a World Class manager with this crop of players I’d be thinking we have a great chance to win afew of them in a row and afew Euros aswell just for the crack. Sadly not with Gareth.
Click to expand...

Seriously......some England fans are hilarious.
Soutgate has won more tournament games than the last 6 managers put together. More knockout wins than the last 7 managers put together. Many of those managers had stronger squads than Southgates options.
First final in 55 years.
England for decades from the 70s onwards have been have been perennial failures, usually embarrassingly so . Until Southgate, what a coincidence. 🙄
 
Glover_elbow said:
Beating a really really shít Wales team exaggerates where we are at tonight. I still don't believe he is sure of his first 11 or best formation. If he can beat some of the big teams this tournament then I will change my mind. Having said that France apart the standard of teams has been extremely poor so far this tournament
Click to expand...
I think he does know his best 11, the problem is (in my humble opinion) his best 11 probably isn’t the best 11 the many other people would pick and that is why I believe he gets the criticism he does. I know you can’t please all the people all the time but if on Sunday Mount and Sterling return and we have another performance akin the US game then he will get pelters again.
 
dontheking said:
On paper means fu(k all. This is the best england squad for generations, we win in spite of him not because of him, in my honest opinion.
Please please flag this conversation if we win the world cup because I will love to proven wrong.
Click to expand...
we either go over the top in criticism (USA) or ott in praise when we beat minnows like Wales. For me we are decent quarter to semi final side the back 4 are not good enough players to win this tournament.
 
dontheking said:
This is the best england squad for generations, we win in spite of him not because of him, in my honest opinion.
Please please flag this conversation if we win the world cup because I will love to proven wrong.
Click to expand...

Well how can you be proven wrong there? You've essentially said if we win Southgate doesn't get credit but if we lose he gets the blame. We'll definitely either win or lose so you've got all bases covered.
 
This is just the classic rah-rah vs bed wetter argument happening all over again

All of this has happened before and all of it will happen again.
 
Alf Ramsey is clearly head and shoulders above the rest as he won the world cup.

In my lifetime I've seen everyone from Robson through to Southgate and in that period he's got to be up there with the best of them.

Tournament football is very different now to what it was in previous eras, if you compare the group stages to say Italia 90 its a lot easier to get out of the groups now than what it was then. We had a really strong Dutch team, Ireland who got to the quarters and Egypt who were pretty competitive.

I think its a lot easier to qualify for a tournament and then get to the knockout stages as the tournament is bigger now which dilutes the quality of teams you play early on.

Southgate seems to be a very good tournament manager, we put away the really poor sides and can grind out results against the better teams. For pure results he's up there with the best managers we've had.

He's created a club style atmosphere in the squad, his man management seems excellent and we don't appear to have any big egos in the group. Southgate is also a master with the media, he's so cool in front of a camera.

We've got a ridiculously talented squad and he's getting consistent results from them so fair play to him.

Do I think he's a great tactician? No i don't think he is, I think if/ when we play a truly great side we'll come up short. I still don't have confidence that he could turn a game with a substitution off the bench against a great team or tactically outwit another top coach.

I don't think he has the tactical brain of a Venables, Robson or even a Hoddle at this level but I think he has a lot of strengths that some of those managers didn't have as well which I've listed above.
 
Uwefuchs said:
Alf Ramsey is clearly head and shoulders above the rest as he won the world cup.

In my lifetime I've seen everyone from Robson through to Southgate and in that period he's got to be up there with the best of them.

Tournament football is very different now to what it was in previous eras, if you compare the group stages to say Italia 90 its a lot easier to get out of the groups now than what it was then. We had a really strong Dutch team, Ireland who got to the quarters and Egypt who were pretty competitive.

I think its a lot easier to qualify for a tournament and then get to the knockout stages as the tournament is bigger now which dilutes the quality of teams you play early on.

Southgate seems to be a very good tournament manager, we put away the really poor sides and can grind out results against the better teams. For pure results he's up there with the best managers we've had.

He's created a club style atmosphere in the squad, his man management seems excellent and we don't appear to have any big egos in the group. Southgate is also a master with the media, he's so cool in front of a camera.

We've got a ridiculously talented squad and he's getting consistent results from them so fair play to him.

Do I think he's a great tactician? No i don't think he is, I think if/ when we play a truly great side we'll come up short. I still don't have confidence that he could turn a game with a substitution off the bench against a great team or tactically outwit another top coach.

I don't think he has the tactical brain of a Venables, Robson or even a Hoddle at this level but I think he has a lot of strengths that some of those managers didn't have as well which I've listed above.
Click to expand...
⬆️what he said
 
dontheking said:
On paper means fu(k all. This is the best england squad for generations, we win in spite of him not because of him, in my honest opinion.
Please please flag this conversation if we win the world cup because I will love to proven wrong.
Click to expand...

That's just nonsense. In the early 2000s we had Terry, Cole, Gerrard, Lampard, Ferdinand, Owen, Rooney, Scholes, Beckham. That was a much better squad than the current one, as much as I like the current team. But never achieved anything like Southgates teams.
 
Uwefuchs said:
Alf Ramsey is clearly head and shoulders above the rest as he won the world cup.

In my lifetime I've seen everyone from Robson through to Southgate and in that period he's got to be up there with the best of them.

Tournament football is very different now to what it was in previous eras, if you compare the group stages to say Italia 90 its a lot easier to get out of the groups now than what it was then. We had a really strong Dutch team, Ireland who got to the quarters and Egypt who were pretty competitive.

I think its a lot easier to qualify for a tournament and then get to the knockout stages as the tournament is bigger now which dilutes the quality of teams you play early on.

Southgate seems to be a very good tournament manager, we put away the really poor sides and can grind out results against the better teams. For pure results he's up there with the best managers we've had.

He's created a club style atmosphere in the squad, his man management seems excellent and we don't appear to have any big egos in the group. Southgate is also a master with the media, he's so cool in front of a camera.

We've got a ridiculously talented squad and he's getting consistent results from them so fair play to him.

Do I think he's a great tactician? No i don't think he is, I think if/ when we play a truly great side we'll come up short. I still don't have confidence that he could turn a game with a substitution off the bench against a great team or tactically outwit another top coach.

I don't think he has the tactical brain of a Venables, Robson or even a Hoddle at this level but I think he has a lot of strengths that some of those managers didn't have as well which I've listed above.
Click to expand...
Certainly this group B has been a gift from the gods no quality at all England apart
 
dontheking said:
On paper means fu(k all. This is the best england squad for generations, we win in spite of him not because of him, in my honest opinion.
Please please flag this conversation if we win the world cup because I will love to proven wrong.
Click to expand...
And IF it is (and tbh I have my doubts about this being the best England squad defensively for generations for a start, but if you think Stones and Maguire are the best centre backs we've had since 66 for example I'm not going to argue) then that's partly down to Southgate too.

Who do you think put a greater emphasis on grass roots level football and brought a lot of them through in his job with the under 21s?
 
Glover_elbow said:
Certainly this group B has been a gift from the gods no quality at all England apart
Click to expand...

Who have France played of any real quality?

Australia are dreadful, Tunisia have offered very little, and Denmark were okay at best.

It's been a World Cup largely lacking quality across the board.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top