Cristiano Ronaldo

Erimus74 said:
I did also dislike him for his antics against the Boro & enjoyed Morrison taking him out but for me, the best ever modern day footballer

Best is my favourite all time mind
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How much of Ronaldo do you watch Erimus? You said in Block21's thread that you don't watch international or European football so is this mainly based on Piers Morgans' documentary?
 
GazC_MFC said:
Put it this way, they wouldn’t have won it without him
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Given they functionally played in a 120 minute final from the 8th minute without him, against the future world champions, that's a statement that I don't think you can say with certainty.

Portugal are a decent team, they're not a 1 man outfit, I'm sure they could have finished third in a group with Hungary, Austria and Iceland without him.

The game against Croatia was absolutely woeful from both sides, Portugal are better than Poland even without Ronaldo, Wales are rubbish.

They got to the Nations League semi final without Ronaldo too, but obviously it was his innate desire to win that inspired them when he pulled out of the squad, only bothering to rejoin the squad when it looked like they might win something.
 
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BoroBen92 said:
Given they functionally played in a 120 minute final from the 8th minute without him, against the future world champions, that's a statement that I don't think you can say with certainty.

Portugal are a decent team, they're not a 1 man outfit, I'm sure they could have finished third in a group with Hungary, Austria and Iceland without him.

The game against Croatia was absolutely woeful from both sides, Portugal are better than Poland even without Ronaldo, Wales are rubbish.

They got to the Nations League semi final without Ronaldo too, but obviously it was his innate desire to win that inspired them when he pulled out of the squad, only bothering to rejoin the squad when it looked like they might win something.
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He pretty much scored or assisted all the goals in the lead up to the final. You state he scored 2 goals against Hungary in a game ‘they didn’t win’ but the fact the drew enable them to qualify. He assisted the other goal in the game.

He assisted the only goal in the game vs Croatia

Involved in both goals vs Wales

Like I say without they wouldn’t have been in the final
 
parnabyscrosses said:
How much of Ronaldo do you watch Erimus? You said in Block21's thread that you don't watch international or European football so is this mainly based on Piers Morgans' documentary?
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If there was an international game on TV & something on the other side I wanted to watch I wouldnt chose the football, doesn't mean I don't know, or haven't watched either player over the past 10 years
I wouldnt know how much European football have I watched over say 5 years, very little, how many full games none, international games, I watched most of the England v Croatia in the world Cup, apart from that, again in the last 5 years, none
I have seen enough of Ronaldo & Messi over time, I also seen him a few times v the Boro
I've seen enough of both, again not full matches, to form an idea of who I think is the better out if the two
IMHO Ronaldo is the better of the 2
 
GazC_MFC said:
He pretty much scored or assisted all the goals in the lead up to the final. You state he scored 2 goals against Hungary in a game ‘they didn’t win’ but the fact the drew enable them to qualify. He assisted the other goal in the game.

He assisted the only goal in the game vs Croatia

Involved in both goals vs Wales

Like I say without they wouldn’t have been in the final
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Didn't score or assist against Austria or Iceland, but missed a penalty.
Didn't score or assist against Poland.
Didn't score or assist against France.

So in 4 of the 7 games that Portugal played, he had no impact on the result beyond scoring in a penalty shootout, but he's the sole reason they reached the final?

The whole theme of Portugal's 2016 tournament in all media coverage was how unsually poor Ronaldo had been, so it's weird to go to bat for him as the source of their victory.

He was brilliant against Spain in the World Cup though.
 
BoroBen92 said:
Didn't score or assist against Austria or Iceland, but missed a penalty.
Didn't score or assist against Poland.
Didn't score or assist against France.

So in 4 of the 7 games that Portugal played, he had no impact on the result beyond scoring in a penalty shootout, but he's the sole reason they reached the final?

The whole theme of Portugal's 2016 tournament in all media coverage was how unsually poor Ronaldo had been, so it's weird to go to bat for him as the source of their victory.

He was brilliant against Spain in the World Cup though.
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Do you really believe that if you don't score or assist you have no impact on the result?
 
BoroBen92 said:
No, but I watched every single Euro 2016 match and he was largely anonymous in most of Portugal's

I'd not have any issue if not for the claim that he's the only reason they got to the final.
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I agree that it's an insult on the other players who played above themselves to get an average team to win the cup to say Ronaldo 'dragged' them there, but I'm sure his presence had some impact on his teammates despite it not being directly with goals.
 
Erimus74 said:
If there was an international game on TV & something on the other side I wanted to watch I wouldnt chose the football, doesn't mean I don't know, or haven't watched either player over the past 10 years
I wouldnt know how much European football have I watched over say 5 years, very little, how many full games none, international games, I watched most of the England v Croatia in the world Cup, apart from that, again in the last 5 years, none
I have seen enough of Ronaldo & Messi over time, I also seen him a few times v the Boro
I've seen enough of both, again not full matches, to form an idea of who I think is the better out if the two
IMHO Ronaldo is the better of the 2
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Not been funny Erimus but if you haven’t watched full games of the 2 in recent years I don’t really see how you can have that opinion, I get how you can have a preference but you can’t really have a strong opinion either way if you haven’t watched lots of both players .
 
Apart from Messi, he is the best player in the world at the moment. He is also the biggest cheat I have ever seen. And what makes it worse is that there is no need for a player of his calibre to cheat. My opinion is blinkered because of the way he cheated at the Riverside in the Cup game and I will never forget how it was so blatant and how he was allowed to gt away with it. Biased- yes. Sad- yes.
 
Block21 said:
Not been funny Erimus but if you haven’t watched full games of the 2 in recent years I don’t really see how you can have that opinion, I get how you can have a preference but you can’t really have a strong opinion either way if you haven’t watched lots of both players .
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Everyone has an opinion Block, would I have an opinion if I said that Man City were better than Everton, not seen much of either team but can draw an opinion that City are a better team
 
Erimus74 said:
Everyone has an opinion Block, would I have an opinion if I said that Man City were better than Everton, not seen much of either team but can draw an opinion that City are a better team
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But that’s easy to say, City are the premier league champions. And are a wonderful football team with billionaire owners and Pep Guardiola as manager and world class players throughout the squad , and Everton are Everton.

Ronaldo and Messi is different as they are hell of a lot closer together than City and Everton are, also Messi won the last ballon dor and has won 6 while Cristiano has 5. So currently you would say Messi is the better out of the 2 anyway using that logic displayed with City and Everton
 
When comparing them as individuals, the last time I checked Messi had a slightly better goals to game ratio (and considerably better assists to game record) however I don’t give a great deal of weight to this stat based on Barca being slightly better than Man U / Real / Juve over the years.

However, when comparing the two I think it’s important to remember that football is a team game and when it comes to being a team player - Messi is comfortably better which is evidenced in the difference between their respective stats when it comes to assists.

Also think the stat posted by someone earlier re: number of goals per games against Prem top six carries some weight.
 
SmallTown said:
So this debate has been done to death, and I have a massive Barcelona bias so I'm always going to be pro Messi but here's what I think:
Ronaldo is a more "complete" player. He has better strength, better heading ability and arguably even better speed. He's got more to his game.
Messi is simply a joyful player to watch, poetry in motion. Also as a team mate he's head and shoulders above Ronaldo. I know it happened at least once where he was not only the top goal scorer in la ligations but also had the most assists, something Ronaldo wouldn't have dreamed of chasing.

Whichever side of the debate you stand on we can count ourselves lucky that we have had two of the greatest in the game playing at the same time and often against each other. Both truly exceptional players
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Ronaldo isn't the more complete player, he's a more complete athlete.

As forwards, they both score the same amount as each other, Messi technically has a better goal record but there's not much in it. If they weren't scoring 40/50 goals a season and were instead scoring 20 each, what would differentiate Ronaldo from any other striker scoring 20 goals a season? If he doesn't score, he's not usually having a good game. If Messi only scored 15 goals a year, he would still be called the best player in the world because he brings so much more to the table. He's the best passer, dribbler and all round playmaker on the planet, he can stand on the half way line and dictate everything. With Messi you've essentially got the Iniesta, Ronaldinho etc type player mixed with a 40/50 goal a season striker. Take away the service from Ronaldo and he becomes isolated much easier than Messi does who can just drop deeper and bring other players into play or be much more likely to score from outside of the box or from a free kick.

It's almost an unfair comparison, Messi brings so much to the game but is always judged on goals because of the Ronaldo competition.
 
Duke said:
Ronaldo isn't the more complete player, he's a more complete athlete.

As forwards, they both score the same amount as each other, Messi technically has a better goal record but there's not much in it. If they weren't scoring 40/50 goals a season and were instead scoring 20 each, what would differentiate Ronaldo from any other striker scoring 20 goals a season? If he doesn't score, he's not usually having a good game. If Messi only scored 15 goals a year, he would still be called the best player in the world because he brings so much more to the table. He's the best passer, dribbler and all round playmaker on the planet, he can stand on the half way line and dictate everything. With Messi you've essentially got the Iniesta, Ronaldinho etc type player mixed with a 40/50 goal a season striker. Take away the service from Ronaldo and he becomes isolated much easier than Messi does who can just drop deeper and bring other players into play or be much more likely to score from outside of the box or from a free kick.

It's almost an unfair comparison, Messi brings so much to the game but is always judged on goals because of the Ronaldo competition.
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Absolutely spot on
 
Again horses for courses

People see ronaldo as more complete because of his ability to execute more things. His heading ability and jumping ability allows for this.

Messi’s technical ability is much better as he has that low centre of gravity. Messi is better on the eye of this. He actually looks like he’s constantly gliding when he dribbles.

I can see why both would say the other is more complete than the other. Depends what criteria you are using
 
Imagine how many goals Ronaldo would score if he had Messi supply him with his amazing passes every single match. Scary thought
 
Duke said:
Ronaldo isn't the more complete player, he's a more complete athlete.

As forwards, they both score the same amount as each other, Messi technically has a better goal record but there's not much in it. If they weren't scoring 40/50 goals a season and were instead scoring 20 each, what would differentiate Ronaldo from any other striker scoring 20 goals a season? If he doesn't score, he's not usually having a good game. If Messi only scored 15 goals a year, he would still be called the best player in the world because he brings so much more to the table. He's the best passer, dribbler and all round playmaker on the planet, he can stand on the half way line and dictate everything. With Messi you've essentially got the Iniesta, Ronaldinho etc type player mixed with a 40/50 goal a season striker. Take away the service from Ronaldo and he becomes isolated much easier than Messi does who can just drop deeper and bring other players into play or be much more likely to score from outside of the box or from a free kick.

It's almost an unfair comparison, Messi brings so much to the game but is always judged on goals because of the Ronaldo competition.
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And this is why I struggle to understand people plumping for Ronaldo.

Other than his obvious very impressive athletic prowess I've not heard any compelling arguments as to why he's the better of the two. Forget about the "he's done it in three countries" argument.

I want to understand what exactly about his game makes him better than the player described by Duke? Genuinely interested because I don't see it. But then can't say I spend much time watching him these days either.
 
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