Cristiano Ronaldo

[McBrid]

And this is why I struggle to understand people plumping for Ronaldo.

Other than his obvious very impressive athletic prowess I've not heard any compelling arguments as to why he's the better of the two. Forget about the "he's done it in three countries" argument.

I want to understand what exactly about his game makes him better than the player described by Duke? Genuinely interested because I don't see it. But then can't say I spend much time watching him these days either.

I watch him a lot, and his game at the moment is about laying it off to the likes of Cuadrado etc to get down the line and Cuadrado to cross the ball in high and this is where Ronaldo uses his incredible athleticism and scores most headers other players wouldn’t be able to and other types of goals. He also scores the odd wonder goal and many penalties, and absolutely woeful at free kicks nowadays, not a patch on Messi in this aspect.

As a footballer Messi wins it hand down, and as an athlete Ronaldo win hands down , I don’t get the comparison either to be honest and I don’t know why I get involved in these threads but it always annoys me how someone can say Cristiano is a more complete players because if you watch football it’s quite clear he isn’t in anyway.

 

[ForssAwakens]

I think you can make an argument for mentality. Ronaldo comes across as having a winner mentality and that’ll rub off on other players. You can’t underestimate that. His ability to influence them mentality of those around him

Roy Keane’s mentality went along way to helping Utd

He was part of a team that won 3 champions league on the bounce, an average Portugal team won the euros.

 

[festa5]

I watch him a lot, and his game at the moment is about laying it off to the likes of Cuadrado etc to get down the line and Cuadrado to cross the ball in high and this is where Ronaldo uses his incredible athleticism and scores most headers other players wouldn’t be able to and other types of goals. He also scores the odd wonder goal and many penalties, and absolutely woeful at free kicks nowadays, not a patch on Messi in this aspect.

As a footballer Messi wins it hand down, and as an athlete Ronaldo win hands down , I don’t get the comparison either to be honest and I don’t know why I get involved in these threads but it always annoys me how someone can say Cristiano is a more complete players because if you watch football it’s quite clear he isn’t in anyway.

He's clearly a very talented player. And credit to him, he has maximised that talent and combined it with the athleticism he has. He's phenomenal and a great example to any young player. But I feel he's had to work so hard to reach a level that's comparable with Messi. Which is impressive in itself.

Whereas while I'm not saying Messi hadn't worked hard and isn't a model pro, it just feels his talent is so much more natural. There are matches I've watched where he's taken my breath away with some of the things he does. Almost too good to be believable at times.

I've never had tha feeling with Ronaldo.

 

[McBrid]

He's clearly a very talented player. And credit to him, he has maximised that talent and combined it with the athleticism he has. He's phenomenal and a great example to any young player. But I feel he's had to work so hard to reach a level that's comparable with Messi. Which is impressive in itself.

Whereas while I'm not saying Messi hadn't worked hard and isn't a model pro, it just feels his talent is so much more natural. There are matches I've watched where he's taken my breath away with some of the things he does. Almost too good to be believable at times.

I've never had tha feeling with Ronaldo.

You see the pair of them the way I do .

 

[American_Mary]

They are both great players and my point on Ronaldo doing it at different clubs is that he’s had to adapt to different playing systems, styles and challenges, in terms of ‘complete’ player what is meant by that is that Ronaldo has a physical and aerial element to his game that Messi hasn’t, it means you have options in your style of play which Messi doesn’t give you.

Interestingly if you look at the stats for Football Manager both players score 525 which I would say is about right with Messi excelling at certain aspects but Ronaldo scoring consistently high over more elements, I think that’s about right.

 

[McBrid]

They are both great players and my point on Ronaldo doing it at different clubs is that he’s had to adapt to different playing systems, styles and challenges, in terms of ‘complete’ player what is meant by that is that Ronaldo has a physical and aerial element to his game that Messi hasn’t, it means you have options in your style of play which Messi doesn’t give you.

Interestingly if you look at the stats for Football Manager both players score 525 which I would say is about right with Messi excelling at certain aspects but Ronaldo scoring consistently high over more elements, I think that’s about right.

You could also say Messi has dribbling and creativity that Ronaldo hasn’t , and Messi’s passing is much better too. They both have there strong point but Messi is more complete footballer, Ronaldo more an athlete who scores lots of goals

 

[American_Mary]

You could also say Messi has dribbling and creativity that Ronaldo hasn’t , and Messi’s passing is much better too. They both have there strong point but Messi is more complete footballer, Ronaldo more an athlete who scores lots of goals

Isn’t athleticism part of being a footballer ? I would say that having that physicality and power makes you a more complete footballer because you have more strings to your bow, Messi’s superior dribbling ability and passing is counteracted by Ronaldo’s heading and strength, I agree with FM that they’re both about the same in terms of overall effectiveness.

 

[McBrid]

Isn’t athleticism part of being a footballer ? I would say that having that physicality and power makes you a more complete footballer because you have more strings to your bow, Messi’s superior dribbling ability and passing is counteracted by Ronaldo’s heading and strength, I agree with FM that they’re both about the same in terms of overall effectiveness.

How long do we expect them both to be the 2 best ? I hope for another 3/4 years but suppose you never know

 

[American_Mary]

How long do we expect them both to be the 2 best ? I hope for another 3/4 years but suppose you never know

Good question, Mbappe is probably the one you can see overtaking them in the next season or two, but you would expect him to move from PSG to get to that next level, Ansu Fati could be the next big thing at Barcelona.

 

[parnabyscrosses]

How long do we expect them both to be the 2 best ? I hope for another 3/4 years but suppose you never know

I think it depends on Barça and their managerial choices, the last year as great as he's been he could of been much better if he had a decent manager and recruitment had been good. He's now playing in the worst Barça team in the last decade and a half. Players aren't on the same wave length as him anymore, the understanding he had with Alves was one of the best partnerships in football and it's never been replicated. Cristiano would move to a side guaranteed to win the league if he was in that situation.

 

[Erimus74]

Isn’t athleticism part of being a footballer ? I would say that having that physicality and power makes you a more complete footballer because you have more strings to your bow, Messi’s superior dribbling ability and passing is counteracted by Ronaldo’s heading and strength, I agree with FM that they’re both about the same in terms of overall effectiveness.

I think Ronaldo said he would probably play in the next world Cup & push himself to be playing at the top for a few more seasons, he did admit he's made a few sacrifices to be at the level, stamina & ability he is
He spoke about him & Messi not text mates but respectful for each other, listening to him he would be another plus in his cap if he went another season longer than Messi, both top of their game footballers, which we probably won't see a similar ability pair again

 

[JM14]

They are both great players and my point on Ronaldo doing it at different clubs is that he’s had to adapt to different playing systems, styles and challenges, in terms of ‘complete’ player what is meant by that is that Ronaldo has a physical and aerial element to his game that Messi hasn’t, it means you have options in your style of play which Messi doesn’t give you.

Interestingly if you look at the stats for Football Manager both players score 525 which I would say is about right with Messi excelling at certain aspects but Ronaldo scoring consistently high over more elements, I think that’s about right.

Dont understand the argument about doing it at different clubs. You could put Gestede in the three best teams in the three top leagues and he would win the league with each one.

 

[McBrid]

Good question, Mbappe is probably the one you can see overtaking them in the next season or two, but you would expect him to move from PSG to get to that next level, Ansu Fati could be the next big thing at Barcelona.

I would love Mbappe to come to England, but think he’s got Real Madrid written allover him

 

[festa5]

Dont understand the argument about doing it at different clubs. You could put Gestede in the three best teams in the three top leagues and he would win the league with each one.

Yep agree. Don't think it means much really. Does anyone really think if Messi signed for Juventus, Liverpool or Man City that he'd struggle? Really? In fact I'm pretty sure he'd immediately be the best player in the league.

 

[Duke]

Isn’t athleticism part of being a footballer ? I would say that having that physicality and power makes you a more complete footballer because you have more strings to your bow, Messi’s superior dribbling ability and passing is counteracted by Ronaldo’s heading and strength, I agree with FM that they’re both about the same in terms of overall effectiveness.

Not really, unless said athleitisiscm leads to actual football outcomes.

It's clear that when most people think of Ronaldo as the more 'complete player' they are thinking about his heading and physicality. Whilst it's true that Ronaldo is more likely to score a header, he's less likely to create a goal scoring opportunity, less likely to successfully dribble, less likely to get an assist, less likely to score from outside of the box, less likely to score a free kick and ultimately less likely to play well without scoring. There's been some pretty in depth analysis on the two done now and it always reads the same.

As footballers, Messi is more complete, he brings more to the game. Heading and strength does absolutely not counteract passing, dribbling and general playmaking. It's those attributes that allow him to play well and dominate games without scoring. Ronaldos heading for example is still a goalscoring measure and we already factor that in...
But Messi still scores more goals.

As I said earlier, the best way to look at what they do outside of pure goal scoring, imagine if they both halved their goal counts. Ronaldo would be no different to Harry Kane, Messi would still be better than Zidane, Ronalsinho etc and talked about as the best on the planet.

 

[Duke]

I think you can make an argument for mentality. Ronaldo comes across as having a winner mentality and that’ll rub off on other players. You can’t underestimate that. His ability to influence them mentality of those around him

Roy Keane’s mentality went along way to helping Utd

He was part of a team that won 3 champions league on the bounce, an average Portugal team won the euros.

In the same breath he only won the league twice in 9 seasons at Madrid, that has to be mentioned alongside the Champs League.

 

[McBrid]

Not really, unless said athleitisiscm leads to actual football outcomes.

It's clear that when most people think of Ronaldo as the more 'complete player' they are thinking about his heading and physicality. Whilst it's true that Ronaldo is more likely to score a header, he's less likely to create a goal scoring opportunity, less likely to successfully dribble, less likely to get an assist, less likely to score from outside of the box, less likely to score a free kick and ultimately less likely to play well without scoring. There's been some pretty in depth analysis on the two done now and it always reads the same.

As footballers, Messi is more complete, he brings more to the game. Heading and strength does absolutely not counteract passing, dribbling and general playmaking. It's those attributes that allow him to play well and dominate games without scoring. Ronaldos heading for example is still a goalscoring measure and we already factor that in...
But Messi still scores more goals.

As I said earlier, the best way to look at what they do outside of pure goal scoring, imagine if they both halved their goal counts. Ronaldo would be no different to Harry Kane, Messi would still be better than Zidane, Ronalsinho etc and talked about as the best on the planet.

I bow my hat to you. Expertly put

 

[newusername]

Pele scored a thousand goals - mind you some of those were against pub standard teams and he might have chucked in a few from the school playground as well

I can't remember any of his goals really but do remember two misses, halfway line & dummying the keeper.

 

[Erimus74]

That Pele when he dummued the Russian keeper was quality
Him & Best for me though, awesome

 

[American_Mary]

Yep agree. Don't think it means much really. Does anyone really think if Messi signed for Juventus, Liverpool or Man City that he'd struggle? Really? In fact I'm pretty sure he'd immediately be the best player in the league.

Yeah you would think that but it’s not always the case, players move clubs with varying degrees of success, there is a school of thought that Messi is less effective at International level due to the players around him not being at the same standard as those at Barcelona, would the physical demands week in week out of the Premier League or Bundesliga allow him to be as effective ? Now he probably would be but we don’t know. Another way to look at it is this, Messi is a racehorse and has only ran over a mile on fast ground at Ascot, but won every time he’s ran, even beating the racehorse Ronaldo when they met, but Ronaldo is a has shown top class form on a variety of surfaces, over a variety of distances over different courses in different countries, they’re both great but for different reasons.