Do some of you think you might be slightly over-reacting?

[Boro]

Going off at some tangent

1. You don’t think Boro have media people looking and even replying on here and other boards? They would be seriously remiss not to do so as an organisation. Believing otherwise is foolhardy, your deflections do fit, you personally may or may not be, it bothers me not.

2. You don’t feel Carrick needs to identify, accept where problems lie, discuss with colleagues how to go about correcting problems where they can. Identifying weaknesses in recruits, coaching and improving them where feasible?

3. Do you think all he needs to do is be positive with his spin like you on here and all will turn round eventually?

Thats what fans are doing on here, recognising problems, critical viewing and thinking is a positive trait. A negative thing to do would be pretend everything was ok, keep calm and carry on is not an option for Carrick, why should it be for fans?

You are the one going off at a tangent with all your spinning of the current reality we are witnessing, our eyes don’t lie. I hope and pray Carrick can see the wood for the trees and is trying hard to recognise and understand reality and to bring about change. You really sound like a politician, you have the ability to spin (albeit not brilliantly) and ignore the reality of the moment, vacancies are cropping up regularly in constituencies too.

Think you're onto something Col

 

[Jedi boro]

Do you think we are building for instant success?

No but I think any long term plan 5 years etc in modern day football are bollox

 

[indeedido]

That’s just barking mad, you know how organisations work so you’re right? You’ll see me being negative in 18 games time and we are floating near the bottom, not after 5 games. I just don't subscribe to the doom and gloom.

Or will we see you posting similar tripe under a different user name?
It is relatively simple to do, so I'm told...

 

[Quicksilvera]

Going off at some tangent

1. You don’t think Boro have media people looking and even replying on here and other boards? They would be seriously remiss not to do so as an organisation. Believing otherwise is foolhardy, your deflections do fit, you personally may or may not be, it bothers me not.

2. You don’t feel Carrick needs to identify, accept where problems lie, discuss with colleagues how to go about correcting problems where they can. Identifying weaknesses in recruits, coaching and improving them where feasible?

3. Do you think all he needs to do is be positive with his spin like you on here and all will turn round eventually?

Thats what fans are doing on here, recognising problems, critical viewing and thinking is a positive trait. A negative thing to do would be pretend everything was ok, keep calm and carry on is not an option for Carrick, why should it be for fans?

You are the one going off at a tangent with all your spinning of the current reality we are witnessing, our eyes don’t lie. I hope and pray Carrick can see the wood for the trees and is trying hard to recognise and understand reality and to bring about change. You really sound like a politician, you have the ability to spin (albeit not brilliantly) and ignore the reality of the moment, vacancies are cropping up regularly in constituencies too.

1. Do you think I work for mfc media team genuinely?

2. That’s his job isn’t it? Of course I’d expect that and I expect that he’s working on doing it right now.

3. That’s the beauty of being a supporter isn’t it? We can hold whatever views we like without losing our jobs or having to face up to the media week in week out.

Obviously Col we aren’t on the same train of thought here, in fact I realise i am in the minority.

My view in a nutshell is that it isn’t time to panic, I trust the process and I trust carrick to turn our fortunes around. 5 games is too soon for all of this negativity and writing our players off.

 

[atypical_boro]

When we signed Archer I’d heard he was “pretty good” and remembered him looking decent against us.

Ramsey I’d not heard much about but he hadn’t done that well at Norwich by all accounts.

Carrick wasn’t necessarily “handed” two Premier League quality players there. He was given two players with potential who he helped make into players who fetched high transfers fees this summer. Their values were driven up significantly during their time at Boro.

Carrick is capable of improving players and getting the best out of them. Like most managers in the league this is what he’s here for. Few clubs are resourced well enough that they can keep throwing money at the cause (newly relegated teams aside).

Carrick will, and should be, judged by how well he does with the team he has at his disposal. Last season it looked like Wilder’s side wasn’t good enough for this league but it turned out it was when we changed manager.

We’re in an very bad spell of form stretching back to April but I really think he’ll turn it around. If we’re not in a significantly improved position by Christmas I’ll eat hay with a horse. And I’d be unhappy if he was sacked anytime before about January (no matter what). We really need to persevere with this one.

 

[Wilder Times]

19th April we last won in league

Crikey, I was 48 the last time we won a game.

 

[Angus]

Btw carrick doesn’t think it’s enough either as why else did we AGREE ( not a rumour) to-loan josh to Plymouth for the season only last week then pull the plug on deadline day.

Carrick knew we needed that key striker as well.

I’m sure the whole recruitment team of the club knew that as most fans did.

I have no known of the club other than what I read on line and talk to friends and family.

Coburn almost certainly was going to Plymouth on loan this season. If Cannon actually went for £7 million to Leicester it really shows we can’t compete with the relegated teams this season.

Players like Rodgers et al are the ones we will have to work with and support.

 

[BoroMart]

No but I think any long term plan 5 years etc in modern day football are bollox

Ask any business person if 5 year strategies are bollox and they will say no.

You need a long term strategy, but you also need a shorter term one. The short term strategy shouldn't harm the long one. The long one is what gets you long term success the short term strategy gets you short term success. Our financing right now appears 80% long term 20% short term. We have probably been the opposite way round in the past.

 

[Quicksilvera]

Or will we see you posting similar tripe under a different user name?
It is relatively simple to do, so I'm told...

To remove any confusion i was sexpom but changed my username.

Is it tripe or is it just my opinion? I refuse to lose my water after just 5 games.

 

[BoroMart]

Btw carrick doesn’t think it’s enough either as why else did we AGREE ( not a rumour) to-loan josh to Plymouth for the season only last week then pull the plug on deadline day.

Carrick knew we needed that key striker as well.

Agreed we wanted another striker, but that deal couldn't be done. What we didn't do is burn our financial pot on a striker we didn't want, simply as a short term plaster. That's a good thing. Our plan B was to develop our own.......something many people on here said we should do anyway, but now seem to be against.

 

[indeedido]

It has been a terrible start, denying it would be idiotic.
I personally believe we've played poorly too in the main. Performances have not been good, we have not been unlucky. Hanging your hopes on that is folly.
It should not be a surprise given the quality we have lost and the type of recruitment we have chosen.
In fairness, so much change requires time to settle and some of the players signed will pleasantly surprise in time.
The frustration is that we looked to have kicked on so much following Michael's appointment. This season looked so full of possibility.
The reality is that it is going to be a long old do where we are looking up at far too many teams.
My personal hope is that Carrick gets at least as long as Scott does.
Please can we stop this nonsense about "the model" as though it is some sort of Holy Grail.

 

[Boro]

I think everyone is concerned, it's just that some of us don't think it's time to rip everything up and call the recruitment etc. a failure after 5 games.

My OP was aimed at pointing out the fine margins involved (as always).

I don't think the recruitment is a failure. A calculated risk. Throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks. Fine, work with what you can afford, respect that, we're MFC not CFC.
If I was booing at my telly at the end it was the feel I got from the technical area & club. Sorry to labour it but Carrick is a rookie too and looks out of his depth in handling the string of defeats on the back of the collapse at the end of last season. He looks worried and a bit lost. Even his post match interview is as sad as an old time Southgate one & they were bad. Woodgate is no longer jumping up to offer his thoughts to him, Leo's passion has disappeared from the touchline, what vibe are the rookie players getting in a game from the sideline? The management to me feels lame and amateurish - that's my boo's worth, not the young players who are doing their best for their ability and experience.
Bring in El Tel to help Carrick out! He's the one who needs support.

 

[Quicksilvera]

It has been a terrible start, denying it would be idiotic.
I personally believe we've played poorly too in the main. Performances have not been good, we have not been unlucky. Hanging your hopes on that is folly.
It should not be a surprise given the quality we have lost and the type of recruitment we have chosen.
In fairness, so much change requires time to settle and some of the players signed will pleasantly surprise in time.
The frustration is that we looked to have kicked on so much following Michael's appointment. This season looked so full of possibility.
The reality is that it is going to be a long old do where we are looking up at far too many teams.
My personal hope is that Carrick gets at least as long as Scott does.
Please can we stop this nonsense about "the model" as though it is some sort of Holy Grail.

we have made a terrible start I don’t think anybody is denying that.

Fine margins do change the outcome of games Lath could of had a hat trick on another day.

The model is the way we are operating now and we need to accept that’s the way we are going, how many wanted us to do the moneyball or Brentford thing? Well this is what it looks like.

 

[Boro4life]

we have made a terrible start I don’t think anybody is denying that.

Fine margins do change the outcome of games Lath could of had a hat trick on another day.

The model is the way we are operating now and we need to accept that’s the way we are going, how many wanted us to do the moneyball or Brentford thing? Well this is what it looks like.

I don't think we are doing money ball though money ball is what Sunderland are doing with great success. The players we have signed are duds and cost millions 5 million euro for a striker that can't finish in latte then lukas Engel he's so sub standard for this league another 3 million for him. Then Alex Gilbert is deemed by the management team as jot good enough to a minute on the pitch.. The only signing we've made this summer that looks any good is RVB.

 

[Quicksilvera]

I don't think we are doing money ball though money ball is what Sunderland are doing with great success. The players we have signed are duds and cost millions 5 million euro for a striker that can't finish in latte then lukas Engel he's so sub standard for this league another 3 million for him. Then Alex Gilbert is deemed by the management team as jot good enough to a minute on the pitch.. The only signing we've made this summer that looks any good is RVB.

We didn’t pay 3 million for Engel, Alex Gilbert may just need a bit of time.

 

[coluka]

Do you think we are building for instant success?

I urge you to listen to Issiah Jones media interview talking about his personal troubles, very moving it was (if you haven’t already). Within in it he stated that Carrick had told him his time would come next season and that the aim was not play offs but automatics. The cat was let out of that bag.

Now I hope you are not going to suggest Jones was fibbing or somehow misunderstood his Head Coach. How does that comment fit with your statement above? Somewhere along the line the goalposts have been moved, but by who and why, and how recently?

I’d go as far as saying the reality has dawned part way through the window that we could not afford the quality to fit last years losses and system. Were we too narrow minded in putting a team together to play a certain way, thereby excluding talent that has gone elsewhere at affordable cost as they did not fit a single way of playing? I said 2 months ago how well Hull were recruiting for example, at relatively low cost in the main, funny how they hit the ground running, that may change but I think they’ll be there or thereabouts come May, top half certainly. They had large upheaval too, it can be done. Yes we are only 5 games in, yes lots of games left, concern has to be picked up on and dealt with, the window is closed. We all know that the narrative has changed and may change even more however the season pans out.

It is what it is
The league is the league
We are where we are
Thats football

At least nobody is at the club to tell us the league is lying, oh wait on……

 

[indeedido]

Fine margins do change the outcome of games Lath could of had a hat trick on another day.

But he didn't and that is what matters.

The model is the way we are operating now and we need to accept that’s the way we are going, how many wanted us to do the moneyball or Brentford thing? Well this is what it looks like.

It is not about "the model" it is about the quality of people making decisions and the quality of their decisions.
Going up is what really matters, as soon as possible.
It doesn't matter whether you go up pretending you have a cunning recruitment model (that masses of other clubs are trying across Europe with the same databases and tools); whether you exploit the loan market, or whether you trust your academy. Going up is crucial.
You do what you have to do to get to the next serious level. Your adjust your strategy then when your world has changed. Going up changes our world and our possibilities.
Kieran's current tombola can only marginally offset losses in the Championship, but it won't build a promotion team.

 

[Quicksilvera]

But he didn't and that is what matters.

It is not about "the model" it is about the quality of people making decisions and the quality of their decisions.
Going up is what really matters, as soon as possible.
It doesn't matter whether you go up pretending you have a cunning recruitment model (that masses of other clubs are trying across Europe with the same databases and tools); whether you exploit the loan market, or whether you trust your academy. Going up is crucial.
You do what you have to do to get to the next serious level. Your adjust your strategy then when your world has changed. Going up changes our world and our possibilities.
Kieran's current tombola can only marginally offset losses in the Championship, but it won't build a promotion team.

I suppose this will be something to revisit come may, this talk feels way too soon. I’m sure if Scott isn’t good enough then gibbo wont hesitate to act to replace him. We have been building to this sort of recruitment for a few windows now. I don’t think we will be that far away.

 

[Quicksilvera]

I urge you to listen to Issiah Jones media interview talking about his personal troubles, very moving it was (if you haven’t already). Within in it he stated that Carrick had told him his time would come next season and that the aim was not play offs but automatics. The cat was let out of that bag.

Now I hope you are not going to suggest Jones was fibbing or somehow misunderstood his Head Coach. How does that comment fit with your statement above? Somewhere along the line the goalposts have been moved, but by who and why, and how recently?

I’d go as far as saying the reality has dawned part way through the window that we could not afford the quality to fit last years losses and system. Were we too narrow minded in putting a team together to play a certain way, thereby excluding talent that has gone elsewhere at affordable cost as they did not fit a single way of playing? I said 2 months ago how well Hull were recruiting for example, at relatively low cost in the main, funny how they hit the ground running, that may change but I think they’ll be there or thereabouts come May, top half certainly. They had large upheaval too, it can be done. Yes we are only 5 games in, yes lots of games left, concern has to be picked up on and dealt with, the window is closed. We all know that the narrative has changed and may change even more however the season pans out.

It is what it is
The league is the league
We are where we are
Thats football

At least nobody is at the club to tell us the league is lying, oh wait on……

I have listened to Izzy’s interview, I don’t think as a club we are expecting to promote this season really, it would be a huge ask to bring 12 players in and expect instant success and would be very unrealistic and unfair on carrick and his team.

I believe that the club wanted Archer and Ramsey back but obviously that would be way too expensive as we’ve seen, I also believe we wanted to keep Akpom. Now that we haven’t retained our bought any of these players then expectations surely change?

We need to be flexible when it comes to expectation, the chances of automatic promotion with a whole new squad to gel is just unrealistic.

 

[BoroPhil]

I don't think we are doing money ball though money ball is what Sunderland are doing with great success. The players we have signed are duds and cost millions 5 million euro for a striker that can't finish in latte then lukas Engel he's so sub standard for this league another 3 million for him. Then Alex Gilbert is deemed by the management team as jot good enough to a minute on the pitch.. The only signing we've made this summer that looks any good is RVB.

how on earth can you write players off after a handful of games? madness. do you think your viewing of them over a couple of games trumps a professional recruitment team's opinion over no doubt a lot more?