Dorman Long Tower - Listed Building Status

Am thinking about what we need to do to try and save this iconic building now.
Take a walk along the Black Path through Cargo Fleet by the railway line and you cannot help be moved by the might as well as the logo on this tower. The mix of nature and industry there is powerful stuff. It says so much about all the hard graft in the past and hopefully for the future.
I am old enough to remember when the Royal Exchange was knocked down the A66 smashed through Middlesbrough. I can tell you that many people thought the old soot blackened building was an eyesore. It stood empty, neglected and uncared for many years. There are lessons there surely because hardly a history event happens in Middlesbrough or a debate about buildings of Teesside and someone laments the Royal Exchange and A66.
At the time it all happened in the name of progress and opening up the south bank of the Tees for jobs and new hope. Does this sound familiar?
Why not use a restored Dorman Long Tower as a beacon of hope for the future. An icon, already on tshirts, paintings and photos that could be the emblem of future growth and prosperity. A linking hand from the past and a means to brand and identity a better future.
People talk about Teesside and parmos - lets have the Transporter Bridge, Newport Bridge, Dorman Long Tower and the former ICI Ammonium Sulphates Tower, Billingham as our Teesside giants.
 
Cuthbert said:
To be honest, pretty much every building on that list could be pulled down and replaced with something much nicer IMO. Seems too generous to give them a 'genre' of architecture, when they basically all look pretty rank.
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it's a bit like taking the family heirlooms in to cash converters and coming out with a few family guy dvds. you might not have any use for an old watch that needs a new strap, a vase or ornament that doesn't fit your current décor.. it's only when they pop up on antiques roadshow that you start to think maybe you had something.

are you gonna pass down a scratched family guy dvd down to younger generations? to tell the story of when you gave away everything of any real value that told stories of battles, war, strife and innovation..
 
Demolition works commencing before the dated stated on the application as being 15th September (video uploaded 5th September)

 
Objections to the planning application to demolish are said to be open until the 9th September this video was uploaded 6th September and clearly shows partial demolition and works being carried out to weaken the structure. What is the point in having a planning department if works are going to be carried out regardless?


If some kids smashes a window or breaks a fence then it's seen as vandalism, criminal activity and they would be rightly punished. Do it to an entire building without planning permission and it's seen as 'progress' - I'm sorry but if you or I dared build/demolish anything without the necessary planning permission in place we'd have the book thrown at us. What is the point in councillors, MPs etc if they cannot protect our local interests and assets?
 
thewanderer said:
Are you seriously comparing a concrete bunker to the Colosseum or the Eiffel tower?
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He compares it to Big Ben, part of the houses of parliament and built in the Gothic revival style that was popular in the early 19th century. By the 1930s when everyone was now into modernism there was a backlash against this style of architecture. Pull them all down!

From wiki.

"But the conventional early 20th century view of the architecture of the Gothic Revival was strongly dismissive, critics writing of "the nineteenth century architectural tragedy",[173] ridiculing "the uncompromising ugliness"[174] of the era's buildings and attacking the "sadistic hatred of beauty" of its architects."

Personally I think brutalism is second only to art deco. There's room for lots of architectural styles. They shouldn't be hauled down in the fervour of one particular time.
 
It's a shame the incinerator was knocked down and a vibrant wildlife area created. I'd been so used to seeing that to my left and the sulphate tower to my right as I crossed the Newport Bridge on the way back from Ayresome. Two inspiring structures to match the beauty and finesse of Andy Peake, Alan Kernaghan, Alan Ramage and George Kinnell on the green baize.

Oh and the aroma, can't that be brought back too.
 
newyddion said:
it's a bit like taking the family heirlooms in to cash converters and coming out with a few family guy dvds. you might not have any use for an old watch that needs a new strap, a vase or ornament that doesn't fit your current décor.. it's only when they pop up on antiques roadshow that you start to think maybe you had something.
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It's not like that at all.
 
fmttmadmin said:
Am thinking about what we need to do to try and save this iconic building now.
Take a walk along the Black Path through Cargo Fleet by the railway line and you cannot help be moved by the might as well as the logo on this tower. The mix of nature and industry there is powerful stuff. It says so much about all the hard graft in the past and hopefully for the future.
I am old enough to remember when the Royal Exchange was knocked down the A66 smashed through Middlesbrough. I can tell you that many people thought the old soot blackened building was an eyesore. It stood empty, neglected and uncared for many years. There are lessons there surely because hardly a history event happens in Middlesbrough or a debate about buildings of Teesside and someone laments the Royal Exchange and A66.
At the time it all happened in the name of progress and opening up the south bank of the Tees for jobs and new hope. Does this sound familiar?
Why not use a restored Dorman Long Tower as a beacon of hope for the future. An icon, already on tshirts, paintings and photos that could be the emblem of future growth and prosperity. A linking hand from the past and a means to brand and identity a better future.
People talk about Teesside and parmos - lets have the Transporter Bridge, Newport Bridge, Dorman Long Tower and the former ICI Ammonium Sulphates Tower, Billingham as our Teesside giants.
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My post will probably get me banned but here it goes,. You response Rob is emotional twaddle ( no offence meant) from someone who has never worked in the steelworks, apart from being a presence on the skyline the furnace and the doorman long tower serve no purpose and have no purpose. I and many others worked in the steelworks, it was a dirty dangerous place and the job was a means to an end,nothing more. I started as a trainee in 1977 and worked throughout Cleveland,lackenby and Redcar works.i was on shift the night the two lads got killed riding the BOS plant conveyor belt,one of the lads from the mill where I worked,( no9 light section mill)was meant to meet with them,he was from the same batch of trainee's. were were young trainee's then, boys in a man's world,not even meant to operate in the operating boxes until we were eighteen,until then we did boys jobs but operated the rolling stands anyway. I worked with men who had served in the war and had some been torpedoed whilst serving in the navy,a fine bunch who laughed at my punk hair but indulged us for the kids we were. They took pride as working men of that generation did but none had affection for the hot dirty mill,or the coke ovens,furnaces and workshops they inhabited People talk about " our heritage"and "we built the world", well that might be a source of local pride but it means nothing in the wider world. To the kids born after the millennium, the steelworks means nothing,( I've asked) they are just derilict buildings you pass by on the trunk road or the A66. In a decade or two people like me will be gone and the final links severed. I can understand that for people who are interested in architecture the doorman tower has some interest,but it's locale means it remains a curiosity and not a viable project for renovation and use,in twenty years people will wonder why that grey concrete bunker is still standing. Anyway,I just thought I'd elaborate on why we can't hold on to the past from the point of view of someone who has lived it rather than appear to come across as a philistine with no appreciation of the Areas building blocks of development.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
It's a shame the incinerator was knocked down and a vibrant wildlife area created. I'd been so used to seeing that to my left and the sulphate tower to my right as I crossed the Newport Bridge on the way back from Ayresome. Two inspiring structures to match the beauty and finesse of Andy Peake, Alan Kernaghan, Alan Ramage and George Kinnell on the green baize.

Oh and the aroma, can't that be brought back too.
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the incinerator wasn't a heritage asset.
 
Ex pfc wintergreen said:
My post will probably get me banned but here it goes,. You response Rob is emotional twaddle ( no offence meant) from someone who has never worked in the steelworks, apart from being a presence on the skyline the furnace and the doorman long tower serve no purpose and have no purpose. I and many others worked in the steelworks, it was a dirty dangerous place and the job was a means to an end,nothing more. I started as a trainee in 1977 and worked throughout Cleveland,lackenby and Redcar works.i was on shift the night the two lads got killed riding the BOS plant conveyor belt,one of the lads from the mill where I worked,( no9 light section mill)was meant to meet with them,he was from the same batch of trainee's. were were young trainee's then, boys in a man's world,not even meant to operate in the operating boxes until we were eighteen,until then we did boys jobs but operated the rolling stands anyway. I worked with men who had served in the war and had some been torpedoed whilst serving in the navy,a fine bunch who laughed at my punk hair but indulged us for the kids we were. They took pride as working men of that generation did but none had affection for the hot dirty mill,or the coke ovens,furnaces and workshops they inhabited People talk about " our heritage"and "we built the world", well that might be a source of local pride but it means nothing in the wider world. To the kids born after the millennium, the steelworks means nothing,( I've asked) they are just derilict buildings you pass by on the trunk road or the A66. In a decade or two people like me will be gone and the final links severed. I can understand that for people who are interested in architecture the doorman tower has some interest,but it's locale means it remains a curiosity and not a viable project for renovation and use,in twenty years people will wonder why that grey concrete bunker is still standing. Anyway,I just thought I'd elaborate on why we can't hold on to the past from the point of view of someone who has lived it rather than appear to come across as a philistine with no appreciation of the Areas building blocks of development.
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I think what you've said above shows exactly why we should hold on to that particular part of our past. It's an absolute insult to have assets given away, demolished on a whim. These buildings and structure are part of this areas very fabric and identity.. and it's being lost. It's being chipped away.

'We Shall Be Forgotten' - Captain Cook is Marton not Middlesbrough, The Cobalt Bomb is North Ormsby, North Yorkshire, The First Passenger Train was the Manchester London Train Company, Bauhaus over Christopher Dresser.. who was Scottish. 'We are Teesside' but they call us anything but. Cleveland Police, Tees Valley Authority. Innovations from ICI originating here on our home soil.. buried, ignored.

WE are being sold short here left right and centre, just have a look at what went on with the airport. Tees Valley International Airport being given away and then run into the ground.. only to be 'rescued' by ploughing public money into buying back what was already ours and using public money to prop up the losses for Stobart.

Middlesbrough councils housing stock, devalued and given away. Solid buildings that could have been given away to residents.. instead demolished, communities torn apart AGAIN - there is no forward planning. We're always the cheap option. The transporter bridge itself is a monument to this, it was the cheapest option to start of with.. then parts of it were sold off for scrap.

Any derelict buildings can be made into something much more with just a little thought, planning and imagination.

What could we have had with a little thought?

Cleveland Scientific Institute - The Deaf Institute Manchester - Carpark
Odeon Theatre - O2 Academy - Carpark
Dorman Long Tower - Baltic Art Gallery - Rubble
G.L.A.M. Nightclub - Glow in the Dark Mini Golf - Rubble
Middlehaven - Hackney Marshes - Still Mostly Undeveloped

An inspiration to Aldous Huxley, Ridley Scott & William Wordsworth.. but lets not hold onto the past. For those who REALLY lived it, for those who take ownership and pride in seeing the past being levelled and pockets being filled. 'just derelict buildings' - we see them up and down the country bring brought into use as we see cardboard boxes thrown up in their place, the Redcar Beacon, an Aldi, a car park.. it's sad that not enough people couldn't care less.

We are being mugged off, and folks are happy to cheer on as it goes ahead, standing outside banging on pots and pans in celebration as millions of pounds worth of local assets are laid to waste.

Were are the jobs? Where are the much improved buildings? Where is the improved plan? Where is the vison? It's no where.. because it's all done to make a quick buck.
 
newyddion said:
I think what you've said above shows exactly why we should hold on to that particular part of our past. It's an absolute insult to have assets given away, demolished on a whim. These buildings and structure are part of this areas very fabric and identity.. and it's being lost. It's being chipped away.

'We Shall Be Forgotten' - Captain Cook is Marton not Middlesbrough, The Cobalt Bomb is North Ormsby, North Yorkshire, The First Passenger Train was the Manchester London Train Company, Bauhaus over Christopher Dresser.. who was Scottish. 'We are Teesside' but they call us anything but. Cleveland Police, Tees Valley Authority. Innovations from ICI originating here on our home soil.. buried, ignored.

WE are being sold short here left right and centre, just have a look at what went on with the airport. Tees Valley International Airport being given away and then run into the ground.. only to be 'rescued' by ploughing public money into buying back what was already ours and using public money to prop up the losses for Stobart.

Middlesbrough councils housing stock, devalued and given away. Solid buildings that could have been given away to residents.. instead demolished, communities torn apart AGAIN - there is no forward planning. We're always the cheap option. The transporter bridge itself is a monument to this, it was the cheapest option to start of with.. then parts of it were sold off for scrap.

Any derelict buildings can be made into something much more with just a little thought, planning and imagination.

What could we have had with a little thought?

Cleveland Scientific Institute - The Deaf Institute Manchester - Carpark
Odeon Theatre - O2 Academy - Carpark
Dorman Long Tower - Baltic Art Gallery - Rubble
G.L.A.M. Nightclub - Glow in the Dark Mini Golf - Rubble
Middlehaven - Hackney Marshes - Still Mostly Undeveloped

An inspiration to Aldous Huxley, Ridley Scott & William Wordsworth.. but lets not hold onto the past. For those who REALLY lived it, for those who take ownership and pride in seeing the past being levelled and pockets being filled. 'just derelict buildings' - we see them up and down the country bring brought into use as we see cardboard boxes thrown up in their place, the Redcar Beacon, an Aldi, a car park.. it's sad that not enough people couldn't care less.

We are being mugged off, and folks are happy to cheer on as it goes ahead, standing outside banging on pots and pans in celebration as millions of pounds worth of local assets are laid to waste.

Were are the jobs? Where are the much improved buildings? Where is the improved plan? Where is the vison? It's no where.. because it's all done to make a quick buck.
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Not sure what you mean with your emphasis on "REALLY lived it", Are you saying I'm lying?.You clearly have no understanding of the steelworks beyond your own interpretation, its sentimental rubbish and I don't say that as an insult. My work colleague is from Horden,, I asked him today if anyone missed the mine workings up there,he said no, once the jobs had gone there was no sentiment from the mine lads he knew and they worked the mines because there was nothing else,they never liked it..,he worked at fishburn coke ovens, a hard dirty job,it shut down in 1986 and was demolished,no one cared when it went. What would you say if they surveyed the teesside public and they wanted it gone,would you call them uncaring and ignorant of their " heritage". I would not want one penny of public money spent on those defunct and pointless buildings and structures. Feel free to buy it and pay for the upkeep yourself though.As I've said,only people who never worked there get nostalgic and romanticise the place.



money spe
 
Ex pfc Wintergreen wroye:
' I started as a trainee in 1977 and worked throughout Cleveland,lackenby and Redcar works.i was on shift the night the two lads got killed riding the BOS plant conveyor belt,one of the lads from the mill where I worked,( no9 light section mill)was meant to meet with them,he was from the same batch of trainee's'

I knew Dave M. He was from Dormanstown and on my course as a JPT. Probably around the same age. Wrong place wrong time. Attending his funeral at Acklam Road Crem.
 
Ex pfc wintergreen said:
Not sure what you mean with your emphasis on "REALLY lived it", Are you saying I'm lying?.You clearly have no understanding of the steelworks beyond your own interpretation, its sentimental rubbish and I don't say that as an insult. My work colleague is from Horden,, I asked him today if anyone missed the mine workings up there,he said no, once the jobs had gone there was no sentiment from the mine lads he knew and they worked the mines because there was nothing else,they never liked it..,he worked at fishburn coke ovens, a hard dirty job,it shut down in 1986 and was demolished,no one cared when it went. What would you say if they surveyed the teesside public and they wanted it gone,would you call them uncaring and ignorant of their " heritage". I would not want one penny of public money spent on those defunct and pointless buildings and structures. Feel free to buy it and pay for the upkeep yourself though.As I've said,only people who never worked there get nostalgic and romanticise the place.



money spe
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Norfolkred1 said:
Ex pfc Wintergreen wroye:
' I started as a trainee in 1977 and worked throughout Cleveland,lackenby and Redcar works.i was on shift the night the two lads got killed riding the BOS plant conveyor belt,one of the lads from the mill where I worked,( no9 light section mill)was meant to meet with them,he was from the same batch of trainee's'

I knew Dave M. He was from Dormanstown and on my course as a JPT. Probably around the same age. Wrong place wrong time. Attending his funeral at Acklam Road Crem.
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I remember all the details, it's grim reading which I wouldn't put on here.I was a jpt as well, Do you remember mr Gibbs Barton with the big mutton chops at the training centre, we had block release at Redcar tech then day release the next year Tommy the head roller used to call college school,"are you at school Monday son", done the northern counties then the C&G ,was offered the chance to do metallurgy but knocked it back.
 
Ex pfc wintergreen said:
I remember all the details, it's grim reading which I wouldn't put on here.I was a jpt as well, Do you remember mr Gibbs Barton with the big mutton chops at the training centre, we had block release at Redcar tech then day release the next year Tommy the head roller used to call college school,"are you at school Monday son", done the northern counties then the C&G ,was offered the chance to do metallurgy but knocked it back.
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Yes the name a description go together. Day release for Basic Steel Making, more like lunch at the Hydro. Got myself into the Rod Mill as a tally youth then onto slinging and Crane driver. Very few names come to mind but a lad nicknamed Sinbad seemed move up rather quickly in the Mill, I left during the strike in 79-80.
 
Ex pfc wintergreen said:
Not sure what you mean with your emphasis on "REALLY lived it", Are you saying I'm lying?.You clearly have no understanding of the steelworks beyond your own interpretation, its sentimental rubbish and I don't say that as an insult. My work colleague is from Horden,, I asked him today if anyone missed the mine workings up there,he said no, once the jobs had gone there was no sentiment from the mine lads he knew and they worked the mines because there was nothing else,they never liked it..,he worked at fishburn coke ovens, a hard dirty job,it shut down in 1986 and was demolished,no one cared when it went. What would you say if they surveyed the teesside public and they wanted it gone,would you call them uncaring and ignorant of their " heritage". I would not want one penny of public money spent on those defunct and pointless buildings and structures. Feel free to buy it and pay for the upkeep yourself though.As I've said,only people who never worked there get nostalgic and romanticise the place.



money spe
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You seem to be saying that because you worked there and you didn’t like it that it should be demolished and that anyone thinking otherwise is being overly nostalgic and romantic when in truth they know nothing of industry or what it meant.

You talk about paying for the upkeep.. but how much would it cost to build that structure from scratch (without the history and heritage attached) How much would any of the buildings cost to rebuild that have been demolished?

Then what would be their value to our local economy, how much is it worth to us to have buildings of significant historical and architectural significance? It’s much more than the car parks and wastelands that were currently left with.
 
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