Electric and Gas Cost

Pak_Doo_Ik said:
That was kind of where I was coming from, the price cap stops in place and if the energy suppliers won't hang around taking a hit till the wholesale prices drop (during the lowest energy consumption time of the year) then the state takes over.

It seems to me the likes of EDF, BG etc have had years of using our energy consumption as a licence to print money, they should be made to use the funds they have from these years to subsidise the next 12 months or till the wholesale price drops back to a normalised figure.
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This is my (potentially naive?) view as well.

Admittedly the price cap has been pre-announced so business plans will have been formed but there's nothing to suggest a change to operating environment couldn't ensure the cap stays in place? It's enforced by an organisation external to the private energy companies?

This is effectively what has happened with the private rail sector which has led to renationalisation of the rail market in all but name. Could be a simple way of renationalising the energy sector as well?
 
SmallTown said:
That's no excuse to destroy the planet. If anything we should do that opposite. Do as much as possible to stop our reliance on the things whose price fluctuations are causing the price rises.

It seems crazy to me for someone to say we should use more gas, as a solution to high gas prices.

Short termisim at best.
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So you think you will be able to hear your home with electricity? The grid as it’s stands would not be able to cope, add the fact more and more EV’s are now on the road. Yes invest in renewables and move away from fossils, but to suddenly cut exploration of O&G is insane and will only play into Russian & OPEC mitts. Your prices will only go up and up.Gas will heat you home for at least the next 10/15 years.
 
Markviduka said:
So you think you will be able to hear your home with electricity? The grid as it’s stands would not be able to cope, add the fact more and more EV’s are now on the road. Yes invest in renewables and move away from fossils, but to suddenly cut exploration of O&G is insane and will only play into Russian & OPEC mitts. Your prices will only go up and up.Gas will heat you home for at least the next 10/15 years.
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I DO heat my home with electricity. So yes. And it’s insane to spend money on destroying the planet
 
Markviduka said:
So you think you will be able to hear your home with electricity? The grid as it’s stands would not be able to cope, add the fact more and more EV’s are now on the road. Yes invest in renewables and move away from fossils, but to suddenly cut exploration of O&G is insane and will only play into Russian & OPEC mitts. Your prices will only go up and up.Gas will heat you home for at least the next 10/15 years.
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The grid as it stands wouldn’t be able to cope if everything was electric but in about 10 years technology will be able to provide all our electricity needs.

Our home is all electric. Been heating it this way for 15 years.
 
A heat pump is the only way to heat your home without gas efficiently. I used to have electric radiators in a flat and they were rubbish and cost a fortune to run.

At £8-£15k upfront to install a heat pump it is beyond most people. A lot of properties can't even have one. We are a very long way from it being viable for everyone.
 
changingman said:
This is my (potentially naive?) view as well.

Admittedly the price cap has been pre-announced so business plans will have been formed but there's nothing to suggest a change to operating environment couldn't ensure the cap stays in place? It's enforced by an organisation external to the private energy companies?

This is effectively what has happened with the private rail sector which has led to renationalisation of the rail market in all but name. Could be a simple way of renationalising the energy sector as well?
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There is no way that energy companies should be paying dividends to shareholders.

What downside would there be to keeping the energy cap as it is and if the companies don't like it then they can do one and we can nationalise the industy? (as it should be).
 
How much wasted energy thorugh poor home design. I live in a detached permision home which is about 15 years old, and it draughty as hell thruogh poor upc windows, doors etc. More legislation is needed on the building industry to make homes far more energy efficient. Rather than looking at reducing the cost of energy we need to looking at reducing our usage through technological innovation.
 
Pak_Doo_Ik said:
I am being stupid but can't OFGEM just keep the price cap as it is and tell the big energy suppliers to take some losses after years and years of obscene profits???
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How many supply-only energy firms have been posting these obscene profits for years and years?

The ones that are usually have fingers in many markets from generation to supply and profits almost certainly aren't coming from supply. How do you effectively punish one company for an issue outside of their control? People weren't complaining when energy prices were super low.

Energy firms have been going bust for years because the profit margins are tiny, that's why the big ones don't just do supply
 
Nano said:
None of these suggestions are particularly useful. By the time anything is implemented and usable the wholesale price will probably have dropped to normal levels and we'll carry on as we are. Also, I've not read through all of this thread so not sure if someone has already mentioned it but we already produce plenty of gas in this country but we export it all because *we* don't produce it, private companies do. Nuclear, wind, hydro, fracking or whatever is meaningless if it is a private company that is producing the energy because we are then still at the whims of the wholesale market but with a huge up front infrastructure cost which might be better spent just subsidising bills.

I've just run the numbers on my energy bills, my fix is due to end this month. Currently costing me £155 per month ( £60 of that is charging my EV). Price cap going to have me at £291 (£112 for the EV). That makes it about the same cost to charge my EV as a 60mpg petrol car would be at £1.45 per litre.

One thing I'm not sure on, does the price cap only affect the unit cost or does it affect the standing charge as well? I'm using the below figures:

The rates under the price cap also vary by region, but on average, they are currently set at:
  • 4p per kilowatt hour (p/kWh) for gas
  • 21p/kWh for electricity
  • A standing charge of 26p per day for gas
  • A standing charge of 25p per day for electricity
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Price cap is a total cost of bill and that can be flexed around standing charges and unit costs. Some tariffs may have larger one and smaller other, making them more attractive to either heavy users or say summer homes where usage is low most the year, so when switching you need to bear in mind both figures.

And to keep banging the drum it's a price cap based on expected usage so you can and many will use a lot more than the cap.
 
ThatFragranceGuy said:
How many supply-only energy firms have been posting these obscene profits for years and years?

The ones that are usually have fingers in many markets from generation to supply and profits almost certainly aren't coming from supply. How do you effectively punish one company for an issue outside of their control? People weren't complaining when energy prices were super low.

Energy firms have been going bust for years because the profit margins are tiny, that's why the big ones don't just do supply
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These companies are just middle men. Absolutely not needed at all. The only thing they do is skim profits. The ones that do the lot are making huge profits so it is all obfuscated bull****.
 
This is exactly what was expected following privatisation: profiteering. profits before people. shareholders before people.

I think of energy, water, health, security and education as the basis of any state. Why the fu.ck would you privatise any of these sectors given their importance to the country on a very basic level?
they should be under state control to deliver these basic human needs, answerable to the the people.
Look what is happening with the water companies - taking vast sums of money and pouring millions of gallons of raw sewage into the rivers.
 
ThatFragranceGuy said:
How many supply-only energy firms have been posting these obscene profits for years and years?

The ones that are usually have fingers in many markets from generation to supply and profits almost certainly aren't coming from supply. How do you effectively punish one company for an issue outside of their control? People weren't complaining when energy prices were super low.

Energy firms have been going bust for years because the profit margins are tiny, that's why the big ones don't just do supply
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The little ones have all gone, so you’re effectively left with a cartel of the larger suppliers who are making huge profits (yes I get they don’t do just supply) so their supply should have to become a loss leader of sorts and if the profit margins on supply are so low this won’t be much of an issue, or the supply goes back in to state ownership. That’s how it would work in my simple mind
 
Markviduka said:
Generally is a lot more expensive to run. As for a ground source heat pump, how would you heat a terraced house?
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Depends how efficient you make your place.

And I didn't say I used a heat pump. And there are air sourced heat pumps.

Still, I accept your apology for falsely accusing me of lying
 
People are in for a big shock. air source heat pumps seem the only viable solution to gas, in my opinion. Power from renewables.
Gas is fantastic as far as delivering energy. the alternatives do not compare well at all in terms of energy delivery. but these are the facts of life.

We will have to move to air heating/cooling in homes. ASHPs will not generate the heat required by water radiators unless you have a much bigger surface area than what we use with gas central heating.
Immersion heaters will do the job but would cost a lot more to run than ASHP.
Theres no point denying the inevitable. Even if we keep using gas, Putin has his hand on the valve feeding Europe.
 
MoggasDog said:
This is exactly what was expected following privatisation: profiteering. profits before people. shareholders before people.

I think of energy, water, health, security and education as the basis of any state. Why the fu.ck would you privatise any of these sectors given their importance to the country on a very basic level?
they should be under state control to deliver these basic human needs, answerable to the the people.
Look what is happening with the water companies - taking vast sums of money and pouring millions of gallons of raw sewage into the rivers.
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exactly you look at how the Norway organised the oil and gas industry to provide funds and investment for generations of its citizens. the UK in contrast privatised for profiteering objectives. Privatisation is probably the greatest example of how pure capitalism doesn't work.
 
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