Farmers who shoot dogs

equaliser

Well-known member
Walked up Snowdon on Friday (thankfully zero phone reception that evening prevented me from following Boro's pain) but was shocked to hear from a local about a farmer at the bottom of the Llanberis Pass shooting a dog in front of its owners the previous week. My wife also knows of someone this happened to elsewhere. Needless to say, we immediately put ours on his lead.

Now I can understand the irritations of farmers, but there has to be a better solution, perhaps a law obliging any dog owner that kills livestock to reimburse the farmer for the loss of his stock. No one has the right to take out a family pet in that way, however heedless the owners. There's no equivalent between the loss of a sheep or a chicken, bred to be slaughtered in any case, and a pooch who sits by the fire every night, delighting children and the elderly. A sense of perspective is required.

Any farmer who shoots a dog, imo, should be faced with a reduction in his in-work benefits.
 
It is common knowledge that you keep your dog on a lead around live stock. Not only could the dog hurt / scare / kill the livestock they could also be killed - they could even cause a herd of cattle to stampede people.

It's another example of people not following the rules and crying about the consequences. Keep your dogs on a bloody lead!
 
Starting to think this might be a windup thread.

OP basically saying there should be a law brought in allowing dogs to rip sheep and lambs apart and stopping the farmers doing anything about it. Sounds great. Maybe make it a sport.
 
It is common knowledge that you keep your dog on a lead around live stock. Not only could the dog hurt / scare / kill the livestock they could also be killed - they could even cause a herd of cattle to stampede people.

It's another example of people not following the rules and crying about the consequences. Keep your dogs on a bloody lead!
Exactly.

Follow the rules or face the consequences. Farmers use the gun as a last resort.

I fully support the farmers on this. Were talking about vast amounts of hard work and money here only to see it destroyed.
 
My dog was shot at by a farmer near Roseberry Topping, thankfully he missed, however it was my dogs and our fault, he'd managed to slip the lead sneak under the fence and was chasing a herd of sheep. If hed been hit id of been devestated but i wouldnt of blamed the farmer, ive seen the damage dogs can do to sheep and lambs and they cause alot of miscarriages in pregnant sheep by chasing them.
 
There's no equivalent between the loss of a sheep or a chicken, bred to be slaughtered in any case, and a pooch who sits by the fire every night, delighting children and the elderly. A sense of perspective is required.
When that’s someone’s entire income then of course it is. I doubt a farmer would shoot a dog unless it was absolutely necessary but if they did then it’s 10% the fault of the dog owner and not the farmer. One very simple solution, keep dogs on a lead in

I would guess a farmer is reimbursed less than 1 in 100 times a sheep is killed by a dog as well
 
we immediately put ours on his lead.
Why was it off the lead?

It is lambing season, but at any time of year your dog should be on the lead unless you are somewhere that you know it is appropriate and safe for the dog to run (e.g. open beach) and certainly if there is any live stock around for the safety of you, the dog and the livestock put the bluddy dog on a lead.
 
If my dog was shot by a farmer because he was a perceived danger to the farm animals then I would have nobody to blame but myself.

Dogs are amazing intelligent animals but they have all sorts of instincts and behaviours bred into them over many thousands of years working in partnership with humans and a dog not trained properly around farm animals will be unpredictable.

It‘s up to us to keep our dogs out of trouble.
 
Why was it off the lead?

It is lambing season, but at any time of year your dog should be on the lead unless you are somewhere that you know it is appropriate and safe for the dog to run (e.g. open beach) and certainly if there is any live stock around for the safety of you, the dog and the livestock put the bluddy dog on a lead.
It was the start of the walk and he always goes off the lead (we live in a town).

He has a very strong prey instinct, and yes he would have worried the sheep. He doesn't know what to do with prey when he gets to it though (the poodle in him takes over), but I would have been 100% in the wrong if I had have had him off the lead and in the highly unlikely event that he took down an animal.
NEVERTHELESS, however thoughtless or unaware an owner, shooting a dog is NOT an acceptable response. It's just not. And no, I'm not on a wind-up. It's a f***ing outrageous overreaction, and people who give a knee-jerk 'bloody serves 'em right' type response to the question might be advised to wind their necks in a little and reflect.
 
It was the start of the walk and he always goes off the lead (we live in a town).

He has a very strong prey instinct, and yes he would have worried the sheep. He doesn't know what to do with prey when he gets to it though (the poodle in him takes over), but I would have been 100% in the wrong if I had have had him off the lead and in the highly unlikely event that he took down an animal.
NEVERTHELESS, however thoughtless or unaware an owner, shooting a dog is NOT an acceptable response. It's just not. And no, I'm not on a wind-up. It's a f***ing outrageous overreaction, and people who give a knee-jerk 'bloody serves 'em right' type response to the question might be advised to wind their necks in a little and reflect.
I think farmers look upon dogs (and animals generally) differently though.

Farms keep working dogs, they are not quite the same as pet dogs.

The farmer will just be protecting his animals, it will not be an emotional equation for him.
 
Here's the National Sheep Owners guide to shooting dogs 🐶

Destroying dogs that attack

NSA recommends that farmers only shoot dogs as a last resort, as the legality of a shooting depends on whether a farmer had a lawful excuse for shooting the dog in that individual circumstance. If it is necessary to shoot an attacking dog, please bear in mind the following points:-

Dogs are counted as property so shooting a dog could trigger a criminal damage charge.
In order for a shooting to be legal, you would have to show that you acted in the belief that your property (i.e. the sheep) was in immediate danger and that your actions were reasonable under the circumstances. What counts as ‘reasonable’ can differ in individual cases, depending on the situation. If, for example, you have had problems with a particular dog before and the owner has ignored requests to keep it under control, this would be a relevant factor. It is important to remember that you are not entitled to shoot the dog if it has already left the vicinity and is no longer a direct danger to your sheep, even if you fear it might come back and pose a threat in the future.
There is also the possibility of the dog’s owner suing you for trespass to goods. The Animals Act 1971 offers you the defence that you were protecting livestock if you can show that you reasonably believed that either: the dog was worrying or about to worry the livestock and there were no other reasonable means of ending or preventing worrying; or the dog had been worrying livestock, had not left the vicinity and was not under the control of any person, and there were no practical means of finding out who owned it
You must report the shooting to the police within 48 hours. If you do not, none of these defences will be valid in civil proceedings.
Under the Animal Welfare Act 2006, it is an offence to cause unnecessary suffering to dogs (or other protected animals). The factors used to decide whether the suffering caused by shooting a dog is unnecessary include: whether the suffering could reasonably have been avoided or reduced; whether the act which caused the suffering was for a legitimate purpose, in this case protecting property or another animal; whether the suffering was proportionate the intention of the action; and whether the conduct was wholly that of a reasonably competent and humane person.
Although the Act makes allowance for what it calls ‘the destruction of an animal in an appropriate and humane manner’, the law is based so heavily on circumstance that it is very difficult to know if your actions will count as this. You are at particular risk of falling foul of this Act if you fail to kill the dog cleanly with one shot. Offences can be punished with up to six months’ imprisonment and/or fines of up to £20,000. You could also be disqualified from keeping animals.
Shooting a dog also puts you at risk of committing a firearms offence. You could be prosecuted for breaking certificate conditions if you use a rifle or other section 1 fire arm to shoot a dog, unless the certificate conditions allow such use. Chasing a dog in order to shoot it has been known to lead to prosecution for trespassing with a firearm. Firearms offences are usually punished with imprisonment unless they are minor technicalities. A police review of your right to possess firearms will almost certainly result from shooting a dog. Your certificates may be taken away with no guarantee of them being returned.
The information here is correct to the best of NSA's ability and cannot be used to defend action taken by individuals when a case of sheep worrying by dogs occurs.
 
It was the start of the walk and he always goes off the lead (we live in a town).

He has a very strong prey instinct, and yes he would have worried the sheep. He doesn't know what to do with prey when he gets to it though (the poodle in him takes over), but I would have been 100% in the wrong if I had have had him off the lead and in the highly unlikely event that he took down an animal.
NEVERTHELESS, however thoughtless or unaware an owner, shooting a dog is NOT an acceptable response. It's just not. And no, I'm not on a wind-up. It's a f***ing outrageous overreaction, and people who give a knee-jerk 'bloody serves 'em right' type response to the question might be advised to wind their necks in a little and reflect.

The right to roam lets you go onto open access land for the purpose of open-air recreation (such as walking). It doesn’t give you carte blanche to then do what you want on that land, or cause any damage to hedgerows, fences or walls. In the UK, it also does not give you the right to ‘wild camp’, although in Scotland the laws are different. If you breach any conditions (including allowing your dog to run free around livestock), then you can be treated as a trespasser.

Dogs are counted as property so shooting a dog could trigger a criminal damage charge. In order for a shooting to be legal, you would have to show that you acted in the belief that your property (i.e. the sheep) was in immediate danger and that your actions were reasonable under the circumstances.

The above is copy and pasted. Farmers can lawfully shoot dogs as a last resort. It is an often accepted legal defence, allowing a dog to roam around farm animals is usually negligent of its owner but it has to be proven in a civil court if a case were brought for unlawful shooting of an animal thats criminal potentially too. If a lead broke or collar or similar equipment broke, there is also a case for negligence for failing to keep equipment in a satisfactory condition for the purpose it was intended. A broken leash or collar is not necessarily a sound defence to negligence of an owner.
 
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Walked up Snowdon on Friday (thankfully zero phone reception that evening prevented me from following Boro's pain) but was shocked to hear from a local about a farmer at the bottom of the Llanberis Pass shooting a dog in front of its owners the previous week. My wife also knows of someone this happened to elsewhere. Needless to say, we immediately put ours on his lead.

Now I can understand the irritations of farmers, but there has to be a better solution, perhaps a law obliging any dog owner that kills livestock to reimburse the farmer for the loss of his stock. No one has the right to take out a family pet in that way, however heedless the owners. There's no equivalent between the loss of a sheep or a chicken, bred to be slaughtered in any case, and a pooch who sits by the fire every night, delighting children and the elderly. A sense of perspective is required.

Any farmer who shoots a dog, imo, should be faced with a reduction in his in-work benefits.


This is either a windup or a typical townie response.

Next time a dog attacks up behind where I live I’ll give you a shout so you can come have a look at the aftermath… you will soon understand why the farmer will shoot a dog off the lead… chances are you will lose the contents of your stomach too.
 
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