Hands Up - Who backed Boris Johnson?

American_Mary said:
how they did that without falling into an implosion of mass division is something, whilst at odds with my own political beliefs, something that Labour should learn a lesson from.
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I'd be wanting Labour to see where the Tories end up after this leadership campaign before attempting to ape them.

Just as the left are always held to a higher standard, so should the left take care not to just become that which they oppose, otherwise they cease to be 'the left'.

Starmer has picked up the Tory-lite label for doing just that. Abandoning the principles he campaigned on. How the base treats aspects of character is different between left and right (and I say that with no judgement).

I don't think the UK is particularly Conservative as a whole. The electoral system just magnifies the edges and the media owners will always act in their own interests rather than those of a country they're largely not bothered about.
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
People voted for Blair when he was responsible for the deaths of thousands upon thousands in Iraq. Johnson seems pretty small fry compared to this.
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Blair (Labour) offered a vote on it, only 1/5th of Labour MP's voted against it, only two Tory MP's vote against it. There was public support for it also, at the time, albeit that's changed with hindsight. Only the Lib Dems were massively against it.

Turns out we shouldn't have maybe put so much faith in US intelligence, but Saddam still needed to go and was still up to no good, just like always, but in hindsight that might have not merited what happened.

BJ voted for the war as part of that, when he was MP for Henley.

www.theyworkforyou.com

Boris Johnson, former MP, Uxbridge and South Ruislip

Read Boris Johnson's contributions to Parliament, including speeches and questions
www.theyworkforyou.com www.theyworkforyou.com

Prior to 2003 the UK had some good years, and 2003-2008 were good too until the world recession (bit rough pinning that on Labour and Blair had gone by then).
 
So what? People voted for a guy who was responsible for the deaths of thousands. Unnecessarily. Hindsight is irrelevant. It was already obviously a catastrophe when he was re-elected. I think most people just see it as a lesser evil as Blair killed foreigners while Johnson killed people from the UK.
 
Scrote said:
IOF? Are we talking finance transaction tax there? What does "the benefit being absorbed by the government" mean in that context (assuming that's what you're getting at)?

The whole point is to add regulation to the casino-style trading we've seen in the past couple of decades. It disproportionately affects the wealthy, not the workers.

Corporation Tax is a minnow compared to the effects of a hard-Brexit on inward investment. Even more reason to have voted for Corbyn's vision, surely?
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Apologies of the unintended lack of clarity. I was referring to the Inclusive Ownership Fund. Although laudable in theory, the implementation (from my reading at the time) would have stripped GBP340bn of assets from investors, which would have discourage overseas inward investment (no-one like to see their assets misappropriated by a government) and raised the Corporation Tax rate by a further 5% (on top of the proposed 26%). CT is of huge importance to CFO's of the major global entities, I know this from personal experience.
Of the expected GBP10bn benefits accrued, GBP9bn would go to the government, with only GBP1bn to employees. In addition, there would have undoubtedly been expensive legal challenges. Brexit is not relevant to this particular argument, which is focused on my not being able to vote for JC due to his economic policy; though JC was never more than lukewarm toward EU membership.
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
So what? People voted for a guy who was responsible for the deaths of thousands. Unnecessarily. Hindsight is irrelevant. It was already obviously a catastrophe when he was re-elected. I think most people just see it as a lesser evil as Blair killed foreigners while Johnson killed people from the UK.
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I don't blame them for this tbh, as grim as it is. The first priority of a government is the security of its citizens.
 
The Ruthsayer said:
Apologies of the unintended lack of clarity. I was referring to the Inclusive Ownership Fund. Although laudable in theory, the implementation (from my reading at the time) would have stripped GBP340bn of assets from investors, which would have discourage overseas inward investment (no-one like to see their assets misappropriated by a government) and raised the Corporation Tax rate by a further 5% (on top of the proposed 26%). CT is of huge importance to CFO's of the major global entities, I know this from personal experience.
Of the expected GBP10bn benefits accrued, GBP9bn would go to the government, with only GBP1bn to employees. In addition, there would have undoubtedly been expensive legal challenges. Brexit is not relevant to this particular argument, which is focused on my not being able to vote for JC due to his economic policy; though JC was never more than lukewarm toward EU membership.
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Sounds as scary as Brexit and how that would lead to a reduction of investment in the UK.
 
MolteniArcore said:
Sounds as scary as Brexit and how that would lead to a reduction of investment in the UK.
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It does, but interestingly the latest EY report on Foreign Direct Investment in Europe does not show this. In 2021, the UK was, within Europe:
No.2 for total investment (behind France),
No. 1 for new projects,
No. 1 for jobs per project.
 
The Ruthsayer said:
It does, but interestingly the latest EY report on Foreign Direct Investment in Europe does not show this. In 2021, the UK was, within Europe:
No.2 for total investment (behind France),
No. 1 for new projects,
No. 1 for jobs per project.
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I wonder if Corbyn's economic plan would have been equally surprising?
 
Fair play to those who admitted voting Tory, especially those who admitted they got it wrong, and those describing why they think they were right (some might have been right for their personal circumstances, but each to their own).

A few people on here saying they voted Tory, and it never said Boris Johnson on the ballot paper, but then go on to say they couldn't vote for Labour because of Corbyn (maybe even Starmer too)? :unsure: Seems a bit contradictory to me. Not sure what scares people more about Corbyn/ Starmer than Johnson or whoever, but I'd like to know.

The vote is for your local MP, the party, and the PM (or leader of the opposition), and then with that whoever is selected for the cabinet, it's the full package. If the PM in charge turns out to be poor, then he could end up out the door and then it becomes the choice of party members (only those who pay), but the choice is from a list whittled down by the previously elected MP's (people who were elected by people who ticked the same box as you, often for very different reasons).

Voting for an MP who wins, but not part of the winning party is like being picked for the team, but put on the bench, well actually more like being put on the bench for the opposition. Labour MP's seems to be getting some stick, but they've been on the bench for the opposite side for the last 12 years, you can't blame them for you being 5-0 down at half time.

Some people even vote for a local MP, of which party they expect to be a winner, so that at least your guy is on the pitch, getting some game time, but picking poor players, for a manager/ team you really don't like isn't often going to end well.

Ultimately my main aim would be to vote for the team I want to win, and who I want as manager (PM) but If that doesn't look possible in my area, then I vote specifically against the team who I really dislike, or who I really don't want as manager, and then the players come second fiddle to that. The way I see it, if the team in red (Labour/ Boro) can't win the cup, then I'd rather (Tories/ Chelsea) didn't win it.
 
Its Class War and always has been - we unite or we wither and dont reach our full potential to live a fair and equal life, its our choice to do that - voting and politically supporting them is class treachery and that makes you a traitor.

the privileged, powerful and rich know it - but clearly the message has not got through to all in our class.


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gizasqueezemister said:
Totally get what you’re saying. She would be a total nightmare but like or loathe even Truss has more presence on the international stage than Sir Keir. Good policy on private schools, but he needs more, particularly on foreign policy. Now Brexit is here he would have to lead Great Britain not little England. I would love to see him have a go at the job to see if I’m wrong because I’m far from convinced at the moment.
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Whenever would a LOTO have more 'presence' on the international stage than the Foreign Minister of a G7 nation?
 
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