I was wrong about starmer

I went through the same feelings not long after he became leader.
In my eyes, he is just Tony Blair - he will do and say whatever is necessary to get elected whether he believes it or not.

What he did to Corbyn was a disgrace.

He will get in because people are just desperate to get the tories out but Labour is supposed to be a socialist party at its very core
 
It's difficult isn't it? The party strategists seem to think the priority is winning over a certain type of voter. The type that used to vote labour, but whose politics are socially quite to the right and so have been suckered into voting against their own interests with rhetoric that appeals to them alongside unrealistic promises.

I'm not a strategist, I've not done the analysis, but they seem pretty sure this is the approach needed to beat the Tories. It's not just numbers of voters they need to win, it's voters in the right places.

They can afford to lose voters in cities in order to pick them up elsewhere.

Is that the only option they have? Don't know. But seems that's what they think.

What I do know is it's F***ing depressing that we've got a system in this country so broken that a minority of voters have disproportionate influence on our politics.

And that that minority happen to largely hold out of date views and are easily manipulated.

Is pandering to them a bit a price worth paying to remove the Tories? For me yes, no doubt about it. I don't know if evil is too strong a word, but the Tories are not far off it.

Doesn't mean anyone has to like it though. I certainly don't, it's bloody depressing.
 
I was happy with the Starmer/Rayner management team. Here we go, get Labour back on track.

Dear me, how wrong I was. This isn't the Labour party I was a member of.

And completely agree, he is the less worst option - practically ANYTHING is a better alternative to the Tories.......but if people are expecting a massive change if/when they are elected - forget it. Going to be a lot of very disappointed people out there.

And the thought of see Akehurst / Mandelson patting themselves on the back 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
 
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1finny said:
Genuine q
How have you concluded he is moving 'too far right'?


And - this is a guranteed ton
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Possibly because everything he says could be said by a Tory leader. Possibly because he's abandoned all the left wing things he originally pledged. Possibly because he's purged the party of anyone from the left. Possibly because he disciplined people for standing up for workers.

It's probably hard to narrow down one thing.
 
Totally agree with all of this. When it comes to it, I will be putting my cross in the red box and holding my nose as I do it. I hate that that's the case, I hate that my vote will be taken as an endorsement of their stance / policies, I hate that Starmer is not courting my vote and hate that our electoral system means I have no other alternative unless I want to help the Tories back in. Either way I am gonna get screwed ... so I have no option than to just pick the one that'll be more likely to use lube and maybe give me a cuddle afterwards if I'm lucky :-(.
 
MoggasDog said:
I went through the same feelings not long after he became leader.
In my eyes, he is just Tony Blair - he will do and say whatever is necessary to get elected whether he believes it or not.

What he did to Corbyn was a disgrace.

He will get in because people are just desperate to get the tories out but Labour is supposed to be a socialist party at its very core
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Like or loathe starmer, labour will get in due to the strategic decisions he has made.

Clutch your pearls all you want, but do it with your eyes open. Every decision Starmer has made is to oust the tories.
 
Laughing said:
Like or loathe starmer, labour will get in due to the strategic decisions he has made.

Clutch your pearls all you want, but do it with your eyes open. Every decision Starmer has made is to oust the tories.
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....and take their place........like a smooth hand fits into a fine velvet glove.

Afternoon Laughing btw (y)
 
festa5 said:
It's difficult isn't it? The party strategists seem to think the priority is winning over a certain type of voter. The type that used to vote labour, but whose politics are socially quite to the right and so have been suckered into voting against their own interests with rhetoric that appeals to them alongside unrealistic promises.

I'm not a strategist, I've not done the analysis, but they seem pretty sure this is the approach needed to beat the Tories. It's not just numbers of voters they need to win, it's voters in the right places.

They can afford to lose voters in cities in order to pick them up elsewhere.

Is that the only option they have? Don't know. But seems that's what they think.

What I do know is it's F***ing depressing that we've got a system in this country so broken that a minority of voters have disproportionate influence on our politics.

And that that minority happen to largely hold out of date views and are easily manipulated.

Is pandering to them a bit a price worth paying to remove the Tories? For me yes, no doubt about it. I don't know if evil is too strong a word, but the Tories are not far off it.

Doesn't mean anyone has to like it though. I certainly don't, it's bloody depressing.
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You're right, it is difficult. The wife didn't used to be as political as me, but has become increasingly so, the longer she worked as a Nurse, including working on a Covid ward during the pandemic. She listened to the news last night, about Labour seemingly refusing to say that they would repeal the new Public Order Act and said, "Right, that's it, I can't vote for them, it will have to be Green or Lib Dem for me." She may well change her mind before the election, but it shows perhaps, that it's easy to lose voters as well as gaining some.
 
Laughing said:
Like or loathe starmer, labour will get in due to the strategic decisions he has made.

Clutch your pearls all you want, but do it with your eyes open. Every decision Starmer has made is to oust the tories.
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Have to say I think the centrists overegg how tactical and strategic every utterance is.

Take last week for example. Days before local elections and apropos of nothing Starmer decides to (re)announce u-turning on tuition fees.

This week briefing MPs to confirm a Labour gov won't repeal the anti-protesting legislation or the migration bills. Only weeks after he had the party debating and voting against these laws.
 
As corbyn showed, you cannot try and move too far to the left in a single election cycle.

I loved corbyn's policies on the whole but this country is packed full of turkeys who happily vote for Christmas.

The electorate in this country is rather right wing unfortunately.

What I do know, is that sitting on my hands and not voting will only give the tories another term to ensure the country is broken up, destitute and destroyed for generations.

For this reason I will vote labour in the GE, if I was in an area where the lib dems or greens were most likely to defeat the tory candidate then I would vote for them.
 
gregorgregorovich said:
You're right, it is difficult. The wife didn't used to be as political as me, but has become increasingly so, the longer she worked as a Nurse, including working on a Covid ward during the pandemic. She listened to the news last night, about Labour seemingly refusing to say that they would repeal the new Public Order Act and said, "Right, that's it, I can't vote for them, it will have to be Green or Lib Dem for me." She may well change her mind before the election, but it shows perhaps, that it's easy to lose voters as well as gaining some.
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Definitely. I think Labour will accept it though because most of their losses will be in areas where they have massive majorities anyway.

Most people will vote against the Tories. Largely what Starmer/Labour are doing is desperately trying to avoid giving a certain type of voter in certain constituencies, an excuse to vote against them too. They're terrified of the right wing media.

Truly inspiring stuff.
 
gregorgregorovich said:
You're right, it is difficult. The wife didn't used to be as political as me, but has become increasingly so, the longer she worked as a Nurse, including working on a Covid ward during the pandemic. She listened to the news last night, about Labour seemingly refusing to say that they would repeal the new Public Order Act and said, "Right, that's it, I can't vote for them, it will have to be Green or Lib Dem for me." She may well change her mind before the election, but it shows perhaps, that it's easy to lose voters as well as gaining some.
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The major issue with that is that if you live in a Labour v tory area and you vote lib dem then it's essentially a wasted vote, or even a vote more towards the tories as it splits the 'leftish' vote.
 
Colgates_shaving_foam said:
As corbyn showed, you cannot try and move too far to the left in a single election cycle.
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Yes, I made my peace a while back with the idea that a winning Labour leader was going to look something like Blairism, a centrist, a moderate etc. Its either that, or carry on with the bunch of incompetent morons we have now. The Socialist government a lot of Labour voters crave is not achievable, certainly not at present.
 
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