Unravel_Morrison
Well-known member
They always say they learn the swear words first. He won't need much more with Warnock.
Is Olusanya really more 'ready' than Payero?
- Thread starter viv_andersons_nana
- Start date
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret
Well-known member
It's de rigueur nowadays for managers to leave new signings on the bench to get used to their system. This is more for the managers gain than the player as it makes out there's more to the managers plan than running around and kicking a ball and that it will take more than 10 seconds to learn.
As we all know the best way to learn how to do something is to not do it. As the saying goes "practice makes you *****". So it's best for him to sit on the bench watching other players fail before he has a go at doing so himself.
As we all know the best way to learn how to do something is to not do it. As the saying goes "practice makes you *****". So it's best for him to sit on the bench watching other players fail before he has a go at doing so himself.
Laughing
Well-known member
That is very true to catch the odd verb like pass, run and shoot might be helpful too.
I can't really see warnock being the patient type either, after all he has been speaking in English since he was 2.
Johngannonsunderpants
Well-known member
I don't understand how people think that players from abroad should come to England and be straight up to speed with the English game. It just doesn't work like that.
How many established big names come and just can't get up to speed with the game here.
Im quite sure a young Argentinian is used to getting the ball to feet and carrying the ball forward. I'm sure he isn't used to a team gaining possession and then playing a 40 yard ball into the corners to run after. We are happy surrendering possession in order to pressure the opposition to give the ball away in a dangerous position.
This isn't a criticism of Warnocks style as its not always our tactics, and when it works I like it, but the Argentinian scrum half would probably settle into the team quicker than Payero will.
In time I think he will come good.
How many established big names come and just can't get up to speed with the game here.
Im quite sure a young Argentinian is used to getting the ball to feet and carrying the ball forward. I'm sure he isn't used to a team gaining possession and then playing a 40 yard ball into the corners to run after. We are happy surrendering possession in order to pressure the opposition to give the ball away in a dangerous position.
This isn't a criticism of Warnocks style as its not always our tactics, and when it works I like it, but the Argentinian scrum half would probably settle into the team quicker than Payero will.
In time I think he will come good.
Adi_Dem
Well-known member
For me Olusanya looked far more capable of playing right now than Payero has. Difficult to judge on the limited time on the pitch but I have been saying for a while now that Payero looks miles away from being up to speed. I will repeat that I am not writing him off, I am sure there is a lot more to come from him, I'm just saying he isn't ready now. I think there are a few factors to this but for me it is always easier to bring on a striker rather than a central midfielder. A much less risky proposition. Olusanya also has the language, experience of English football (and the pace of it) and the physicality to be able to cope. Payero hasn't shown that yet, technically good as he may be.
My view is that it's horses for courses really and that Payero will take a lot longer than other new signings to be ready to play. I'd also add that this continued reference to him being an Argentinian international is a bit of a red herring. He has played three times at the Olympics in essentiall an u23 international team. That is a far cry from first team international football.
My view is that it's horses for courses really and that Payero will take a lot longer than other new signings to be ready to play. I'd also add that this continued reference to him being an Argentinian international is a bit of a red herring. He has played three times at the Olympics in essentiall an u23 international team. That is a far cry from first team international football.
pierrequiroule
Well-known member
Similar views to Adi. Olusanya looked really up for it, quick, aggressive and fearless. He wasn't on the pitch long enough to know if he can beat a man, but he appeared to have the same attitude as Jones (with added muscle) which can only be a good thing, non?
Markmywords
Member
Ok. That's our World Cup tactics sorted then when we come up against a South American team. Play a team of hard nosed players from the Championship. We'll walk it
Chappy112
Well-known member
International footballl is different because it's a clash of styles, Payero has to drop into pitch with 21 other players and play their way or be good enough to impose his own style on the game. It's why Italy controlled the game vs England in the Euro final, England can chase after Italy as much as they like in their style of pressing and fast football but they're playing vs 11 players who are brilliant at keeping hold of the ball.Ok. That's our World Cup tactics sorted then when we come up against a South American team. Play a team of hard nosed players from the Championship. We'll walk it
Veron could control a game for Argentina with his eyes closed because he's playing with 10 other like minded players, stick him in a game with 21 other lunatics running around in the Premier League and he couldn't get to grips with it.
Muttley
Well-known member
FFS.Ok. That's our World Cup tactics sorted then when we come up against a South American team. Play a team of hard nosed players from the Championship. We'll walk it
If nothing else communication in a team game is pretty important, wouldn't you say?
I liked what I saw of T. I particularly enjoyed him picking up the Blackburn player and throwing him away (don't do it again though lad). Fire in the belly is always good.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
He wouldn't have made the Argentinian Olympic squad. He looked like a non league player running his socks off for 20 minutes in an FA Cup match. Not much finesse about him but that's not to say he isn't good enough. He may well develop, he's a youngster.
festa5
Well-known member
It sometimes works like that, sometimes it doesnt. Plenty have come over and hit the ground running. A certain Marco Branca springs to mind.
As I and others have said, it's probably harder for a midfielder though. The tempo of the game probably affects you more and you'll quickly look lost if not up to speed.
Tevez and Mascherano might be the perfect example of this. Came from the same league at the same time, same nationality, same age, joined the same club. both top class players. The striker made an immediate impact, the midfielder took a lot longer to make his mark in this country.
Expat Smoggie
Well-known member
Does anyone know where he’ll play?
Dynamo Kev
Active member
pretty sure TO was a youth at a league 1/2 club. hes been about and knows the score in our league. no real need to worry about him settling in. payero though, the lad might be a world beater but we wont see it until his timing at this pace of game gets up to speed. NW started him in the cup to have a look at him. he knows how far off he is. no need to worry about him flopping just yet.
viv_andersons_nana
Well-known member
Some good replies here, thanks very much! It is refreshing to see us picking up lads from non-league and giving them a chance. Hopefully he can take it.
Payero - I understand he needs to settle, adjust to the game, etc, but do sometimes wonder how he's supposed to adjust when he's sitting on the bench. And the manager keeps saying "we've got nothing on the bench" as well, does that knock his confidence? I suppose he can't speak English so it doesn't matter. And I'm not comparing the two here by the way, before someone mentions it, but we put Juninho straight into the team. He'd played 50 or so senior games, 22 or so years old... similar to Payero in some ways. I know Juninho was a mercurial talent but is there much difference in terms of anything else? It's not like Payero is a boy, like Marinelli.
I also wonder what it is that Payero has to do to adjust? Does he take extra English classes? Spend more time in the gym? Double training sessions? Play in the reserves for a while? It'd be interesting to have a bit of insight into the process maybe.
Payero - I understand he needs to settle, adjust to the game, etc, but do sometimes wonder how he's supposed to adjust when he's sitting on the bench. And the manager keeps saying "we've got nothing on the bench" as well, does that knock his confidence? I suppose he can't speak English so it doesn't matter. And I'm not comparing the two here by the way, before someone mentions it, but we put Juninho straight into the team. He'd played 50 or so senior games, 22 or so years old... similar to Payero in some ways. I know Juninho was a mercurial talent but is there much difference in terms of anything else? It's not like Payero is a boy, like Marinelli.
I also wonder what it is that Payero has to do to adjust? Does he take extra English classes? Spend more time in the gym? Double training sessions? Play in the reserves for a while? It'd be interesting to have a bit of insight into the process maybe.
pierrequiroule
Well-known member
You have to trust an experienced manager's eye. We can't afford to throw away points by playing what will effectively be ten men just to help one individual's progress. He'll get there in time or he won't, and when he's ready Warnock will know and will play him.
viv_andersons_nana
Well-known member
I'm not saying I don't trust him! He sees him every day in training, etc, I understand all of that. I appreciate anyone would need time to settle into a new job in a new country, a different culture, and learning a language. How certain are you that we'd be playing with ten men though? Warnock was happy to persevere with Akpom, for example, even though everyone knew he was poor and was nowhere near what we needed/wanted. As I say I'm not saying I don't trust Warnock, I'm just interested in the process and what Payero will go through in order to settle and find his rhythm on the field. It'll also be interesting to see how Warnock handles the two new lads we've signed today as well. If they're both on the bench for a while, then...
Adi_Dem
Well-known member
I think it will be a combination of all of those things and being drip fed into the team wherever it is right to do it. Another player might be a duck to water. For me though it is obvious from watching him that he has a way to go before he can play regularly, which I didn't feel when it came to Olusanya on Saturday (though it's early days).
pierrequiroule
Well-known member
I've seen the few minutes he's played for the first team and in the U23s and he made no real impression because he was unable to get into the game. I think Sporar and Siliki are very much further along the road in terms of appearances and the level they were playing at and will feature very quickly.
viv_andersons_nana
Well-known member
I find it genuinely fascinating. I'd also love to read more about the process Payero will go through. And Olusanya, TBF.
Anton_Berg
Well-known member
Wasn't Juninho 24 when signed? And he was a 60 minute player for a while (although his 60 minutes was brilliant).