Joey Barton in trouble again

festa5 said:
I thought it meant destruction or annihilation? Can it also mean disaster? If so that's surely a more obscure definition for the term.

Either way I do find it amusing he's got into trouble for basically trying to use a big word because he's sees himself as some sort of intellectual. He's an absolute ******.
Click to expand...
I agree entirely.
 
As someone from a Jewish family, I don’t necessarily find it offensive. Some might, if they’re looking for a reason. I guess most of those people relate the word to one definition.

The word isn’t solely connected to what he know as the Holocaust, it does have another meaning if used in the correct context. I’m not sure his could be considered totally in context, if you go by the proper literal definition, but he’s obviously trying to use it to describe a disaster or something.

It’s definitely a poor choice of words if you don’t want to attract negative attention, but can you really sack a man for using a word that has more than one definition in our language and can be used? I don’t think so.

Joey Barton strikes me as a man that reads the dictionary to find words to sound smarter, He fancies himself as a bit of an intellectual but then uses the words slightly wrong.

I doubt he was out to cause offence (on this occasion).
 
HiredGun123 said:
As someone from a Jewish family, I don’t necessarily find it offensive. Some might, if they’re looking for a reason. I guess most of those people relate the word to one definition.

The word isn’t solely connected to what he know as the Holocaust, it does have another meaning if used in the correct context. I’m not sure his could be considered totally in context, if you go by the proper literal definition, but he’s obviously trying to use it to describe a disaster or something.

It’s definitely a poor choice of words if you don’t want to attract negative attention, but can you really sack a man for using a word that has more than one definition in our language and can be used? I don’t think so.

Joey Barton strikes me as a man that reads the dictionary to find words to sound smarter, He fancies himself as a bit of an intellectual but then uses the words slightly wrong.

I doubt he was out to cause offence (on this occasion).
Click to expand...
I didn't want to go there but since you've done it I'll just type this at the risk of sounding a bit 'Some of my best friends are black'. I have loads of Jewish friends. I moved to the other end of the country in my youth to live with my Jewish girlfriend and the only people I knew when I first arrived there were her and her family and her friends, most of whom were Jewish. And I'm still close mates with most of them. They hate being treated as a protected species by none Jewish people and they hate being used as political footballs and people being offended on their behalf. Most of all they hate being referred to as 'The Jews' as if they're all the same. They're not. None of them would be offended by what a nobhead like Barton said.
 
BoroFur said:
Wow, Jewish people being over sensitive to a flippant use of the word Holocaust :unsure:
Just because it doesn't offend you doesn't mean to say it doesn't offend Jews.
No doubt someone will be along shortly and say something along the lines of "Just seems someone has to be offended these days".

https://twitter.com/x/status/1451985775919304710
Click to expand...
And just because someone is offended it doesn’t mean they are right. Only Joey knows what the context of his comment was
 
I find Barton pretty revolting as an individual, given the various proven stuff that has come out via his comments and actions, but I'm inclined to think there is a bit of over reaction to this.

I've read about defences and individual defenders being 'raped' and 'murdered' over the last few years.

Perhaps it's time to tone the language down all round.
 
I always though Leadbitter dealt with Barton better than most. We we playing Burnley at Turf Moor. Barton and Leadboots were tussling for the ball and in the process Barton got a serious bit of bruising to his legs. He turned and looked to see who it was

Both of them just played football thereafter

Barton apparently had a poor and rough upbring in Liverpool/ Kirkby. You need to cut the guy a bit more slack as he probably doesn't have the vocabulary necessary for the job he has
 
Rofesleg said:
Did he definitely say holocaust using a capital 'H'? Or is it artistic journalistic interpretation which then changes the impact of the word?
Click to expand...
Speaking in capital letters?

Have you not seen the video?

It's posted in this thread.
 
Craggsy2 said:
In the news again over a 'Holocaust' comment and asked to resign over it being considered an anti-semitic comment.

www.bbc.co.uk

Bristol Rovers boss Joey Barton 'should consider future' after holocaust analogy

Councillor Fabian Breckels said the Bristol Rovers' boss's comments were "appalling".
www.bbc.co.uk

A nuclear holocaust comes to mind when using the word holocaust, is this also considered anti-semitic?

He said:

"Someone gets in for a game, does well but then has a Holocaust, a nightmare, an absolute disaster."

Is it just me or is this being a little over sensitive?
Click to expand...
Wow that’s a shocking thing to say..

He’s not right in the head is he.
 
BoroFur said:
Speaking in capital letters?

Have you not seen the video?

It's posted in this thread.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or whether you didn't pick up on my sarcasm.
The point I'm making is that the press allocated a capital H to the word. That simple act changes the context of the word.
 
Last edited:
Unless you're going to ban all uses of the word "holocaust" except in the context of a single period of history Barton said nothing untoward.

It's the use of the indefinite versus definite article.

A holocaust is nothing to get worked up about. Means to devour a sacrifice by fire, or to destroy completely.

The holocaust generally refers to the genocide of the Jews. Also used with an adjective to describe other genocides; such as the Rawandan Holocaust.

Frankly anyone who was offended by either usage is rather too sensitive but we do live in the age of post-Modernist relativism, so perhaps not surprising the hyper moral elite are after Barton's blood.
 
bumface said:
I didn't want to go there but since you've done it I'll just type this at the risk of sounding a bit 'Some of my best friends are black'. I have loads of Jewish friends. I moved to the other end of the country in my youth to live with my Jewish girlfriend and the only people I knew when I first arrived there were her and her family and her friends, most of whom were Jewish. And I'm still close mates with most of them. They hate being treated as a protected species by none Jewish people and they hate being used as political footballs and people being offended on their behalf. Most of all they hate being referred to as 'The Jews' as if they're all the same. They're not. None of them would be offended by what a nobhead like Barton said.
Click to expand...

I personally don’t practice the religion. All my grandparents did, plenty of my relatives do. I guess some will still see me as Jewish, many consider it more than just a religion in a way, it’s a strange one. You get Jewish people and Muslim people that still get referred to as being Jewish or Muslim, even if they’re not particularly religious but you don’t really hear that about most other religions, generally speaking.

Most of my friends and family that are are pretty easy going. They can clearly differentiate when someone is being offensive or prejudice or not. I’ve known them laugh at jokes that others get offended over on their behalf, although that is silly jokes, not jokes about tragedies of course.

Of course there will always be some people that will jump on something like this and be like a dog with a bone, but I’d say most sensible people will see it for what it is. To be honest I’d imagine there’s a lot of people out there that don’t realise the word has a different meaning to what we automatically think when we hear that word, even Jewish people. It’s not particularly a word you’re hear in every day use and probably 99% of the time it’s used in reference to history.

I think it’s basically Joey Barton trying to sound clever and using one of the definitions of the word half out of context. That’s probably the top and bottom of it.
 
He is an idiot but a sly one. A man who has convictions for violent crime.
Why anyone choose to use a term describing the slaughter of millions of people to describe a football performance?
I suspect he knew exactly what he was saying and as such it could be highly offensive at best.
He should be sacked.
 
HiredGun123 said:
I personally don’t practice the religion. All my grandparents did, plenty of my relatives do. I guess some will still see me as Jewish, many consider it more than just a religion in a way, it’s a strange one. You get Jewish people and Muslim people that still get referred to as being Jewish or Muslim, even if they’re not particularly religious but you don’t really hear that about most other religions, generally speaking.

Most of my friends and family that are are pretty easy going. They can clearly differentiate when someone is being offensive or prejudice or not. I’ve known them laugh at jokes that others get offended over on their behalf, although that is silly jokes, not jokes about tragedies of course.

Of course there will always be some people that will jump on something like this and be like a dog with a bone, but I’d say most sensible people will see it for what it is. To be honest I’d imagine there’s a lot of people out there that don’t realise the word has a different meaning to what we automatically think when we hear that word, even Jewish people. It’s not particularly a word you’re hear in every day use and probably 99% of the time it’s used in reference to history.

I think it’s basically Joey Barton trying to sound clever and using one of the definitions of the word half out of context. That’s probably the top and bottom of it.
Click to expand...
You said what I was trying to say way better than I did. The thing that gets to me is the media constantly promoting one or two vocal groups in certain communities as being the spokespeople for everybody. The Jewish Chronicle doesn't speak for all Jews. Neither does the Board of Deputies. Because funnily enough Jewish people are all individuals and have their own opinions just like everybody else does. My ex and her mates aren't religious either. And most of the Muslims I know are the same. They're just people. And they generally dislike Joey Barton. But not because he's an Anti Semite or an Islamophobe. More just because he's a complete w@nker.
 
Rofesleg said:
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or whether you didn't pick up on my sarcasm.
The point I'm making is that the press allocated a capital H to the word. That simple act changes the context of the word.
Click to expand...
Well just watch the video instead of reading the reports and form an opinion from that. If a Jewish person is offended by his choice of words having watched the video who are we to say that person is 'sensitive'?
 
br14 said:
Unless you're going to ban all uses of the word "holocaust" except in the context of a single period of history Barton said nothing untoward.

It's the use of the indefinite versus definite article.

A holocaust is nothing to get worked up about. Means to devour a sacrifice by fire, or to destroy completely.

The holocaust generally refers to the genocide of the Jews. Also used with an adjective to describe other genocides; such as the Rawandan Holocaust.

Frankly anyone who was offended by either usage is rather too sensitive but we do live in the age of post-Modernist relativism, so perhaps not surprising the hyper moral elite are after Barton's blood.
Click to expand...
Reads like you've done plenty of googling tonight. I mean that description of 'A' holocaust just rolls off the tongue.

And 'post-Modernist relativism' together with 'the hyper moral elite', just what does that mean exactly in plain English?

Do you think those airy-fairy words will assuage any concerns Jewish people will have about the way the world sees them?
 
Firstly, it is not for us to decide if someone takes offence at anything.
Secondly, the word 'holocaust' has become synonymous with an event and using it without any other context is stupid. Using 'nuclear holocaust' for example would add necessary context.
In a civilised world, the response would be to apologise and move on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top