Joey Barton in trouble again

Caesium137 said:
I assume if a media chummy manager or pundit said it there wouldn't be anywhere near as much fuss.

Whilst I hate the odious violent cretin, this does seem more of a case of playing the man not the ball.
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I'm not sure anyone else would say it. It's such a rare turn of phrase. So far in this thread we have only discovered 2 uses of it and one was years ago. Compare that to the terms 'nightmare, absolute disaster' we could find thousands of times they have been used.

It is in bad taste, that's why people don't use it.
 
Paintolerance said:
Now, I'm not sure why you can't see the difference between the use of the N word and someone saying 'holocaust, nightmare, absolute disaster'

One would be deliberately inflammatory and abusive. The other, as can be seen by this thread, at least open to interpretation.

I don't think anyone thinks it's a great choice of words, but plenty on here would take issue with recent government proposals to make protest illegal if ANYONE may take offence/be upset. I think Doods comment pays reference to that.
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Therein lies the issue. nightmare and absolute disaster are not the same as holocaust. It's as simple as that.
Now, I'm not sure why you can't see the difference.

My reference to the N word is in relation to who decides what os offensive or not. You missed that.
 
zzzzz said:
"We got murdered today"
"We suffered a firestorm today"

Generic terms not specifically related to a single event or people.
Not sure why you can't see the difference.

"Otherwise we’d spend our lives apologising for everything." It's not everything, it's the Holocaust.
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He didn’t say ‘the Holocaust’
 
zzzzz said:
If someone on here used the 'N' would you take offense?
I would and I'd decide that someone else might take offence and challenge it.
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It would offend me of course, but I wouldn't assume it would offend others, I'd leave them to express their own feelings.
 
zzzzz said:
Therein lies the issue. nightmare and absolute disaster are not the same as holocaust. It's as simple as that.
Now, I'm not sure why you can't see the difference.

My reference to the N word is in relation to who decides what os offensive or not. You missed that.
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No, I didn't miss anything, I just don't agree with you on this matter, that's all.

And it's not just semantics differentiating between holocaust and The Holocaust. People on this thread have used the latter. Barton only the former.

We shall agree to disagree.
 
He must not have been in the papers for a while.

Firstly it's the relative obscurity of the word being used in that context which has ignited this debate. I, and I expect few others, have ever heard a poor performance in any discipline or field referred to as a "holocaust".

That leaves two possible explanations - he's either deliberately chosen that word, aware of it's context and potential to offend, and used in anyway. Which is both calculated and misguided.

Or secondly, he's accidentally used it (unlikely?) or is ignorant to its meaning - which is not necessarily a defence in this matter - "I use words without knowing what they mean"
 
I read the report and thought nothing of it. I am a bit surprised that it has sparked a debate on here.

Offensive terms are used out of their true context by lots of people from time to time. I am not sure it needs to be examined nor apologised for in this particular instance.

It certainly isn't anti semitic using the basic definition. It's neither hostile nor prejudicial towards Jews.
 
bumface said:
I didn't want to go there but since you've done it I'll just type this at the risk of sounding a bit 'Some of my best friends are black'. I have loads of Jewish friends. I moved to the other end of the country in my youth to live with my Jewish girlfriend and the only people I knew when I first arrived there were her and her family and her friends, most of whom were Jewish. And I'm still close mates with most of them. They hate being treated as a protected species by none Jewish people and they hate being used as political footballs and people being offended on their behalf. Most of all they hate being referred to as 'The Jews' as if they're all the same. They're not. None of them would be offended by what a nobhead like Barton said.
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Hi Bumface, sounds like exactly the same thing I did many years ago. Are you me?
 
Laughing said:
I read the report and thought nothing of it. I am a bit surprised that it has sparked a debate on here.

Offensive terms are used out of their true context by lots of people from time to time. I am not sure it needs to be examined nor apologised for in this particular instance.

It certainly isn't anti semitic using the basic definition. It's neither hostile nor prejudicial towards Jews.
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Would appear that the FA and Mr Barton disagree with you.
Fair play to him for apologising, the right thing to do, as with de Koch.
We're all human, make mistakes and very often say and do the wrong things.
The difference being what these people say and do influences many others.
That being the case they have an individual responsibility to act when they fk up, which they've done.
 
zzzzz said:
Would appear that the FA and Mr Barton disagree with you.
Fair play to him for apologising, the right thing to do, as with de Koch.
We're all human, make mistakes and very often say and do the wrong things.
The difference being what these people say and do influences many others.
That being the case they have an individual responsibility to act when they fk up, which they've done.
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I dont think there is any mention of anti-semitism in that article. I think the article reflects @Laughing view point. He wasnt offended, and Joey Barton did not mean offence but has apologised if any was taken.

I think that is an entirely reasonable stance, as language has the potential to be inflammatory regardless of intention.
 
Well done Joey Barton for apologising and well done for the FA for not only reminding him of his responsibility, but also for not going overboard and slapping a charge on him in the first place.
Commonsense wins out at the end of the day.
 
Just watched Schindlers List.
To all of you on this thread supporting Joey Barton using the term holocaust as just another word., with a capitol H or not.
FK YOU.
 
Stupid word to use. It's not particularly unusual for it to be used in that context though. Brian Laws, Perry Groves, Tony Cascarino, Terry Venables and Alan Pardew have all made the same comment in the past. Holocaust can be used in that context and has on TV a lot of times before, even in the last 20 years, yet I'm sure many of the people complaining now haven't complained before.

It shouldn't really be used in this context, but then neither should raped and murdered, yet I'm sure some of the people in this thread have described events in football matches using those words.
 
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