Just looking back at Forss strike

[sparkins]

I remember when we signed Forss, the things that stick in my mind from the Brentford fans were comments like
'Best natural finisher at the club'
'Doesnt offer much else'
'Not that quick'

I think the first is definitely true but the other two are wide of the mark. He has been an excellent acquisition and deserves his run up top.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

We were in the ground fairly early on Sunday and watched the forwards having their shooting practice. What stood out was how cleanly and accurately Forss struck the ball, all hard and into the corner.

What also stood out was Azaz's shooting, he pulled lots of them when using his right foot, which he practised a lot during the warm up.

I was watching Azaz in particular to be fair, Forss caught the eye because he stood out like a sore thumb.

 

[B_G]

I like Forss playing on the right. He's our best player playing in that position. I wouldnt change it when it's working. Moving him to centre forward won't automatically mean he'll get more goals.

He's has 5 Goals and 2 Assists from 498 mins of football from that position this season. Or 1.27 goal contributions per 90 mins played.
That's more than double out next most productive players who are Rogers, Coburn and Crooks who each have 0.55, 0.54 and 0.53 respectively. And 4 times more productive than Jones.

It's a small sample for Forss and I doubt he can maintain that sort of rate but even still it shows he's very effective playing in that position. I don't see the sense in moving him. I think we need to find another solution for the striker.

 

[CG85]

The fact that is is so successful from the wide position, suggests to me that we leave him there. He might not be as successful through the middle

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

I like Forss playing on the right. He's our best player playing in that position. I wouldnt change it when it's working. Moving him to centre forward won't automatically mean he'll get more goals.

He's has 5 Goals and 2 Assists from 498 mins of football from that position this season. Or 1.27 goal contributions per 90 mins played.
That's more than double out next most productive players who are Rogers, Coburn and Crooks who each have 0.55, 0.54 and 0.53 respectively. And 4 times more productive than Jones.

It's a small sample for Forss and I doubt he can maintain that sort of rate but even still it shows he's very effective playing in that position. I don't see the sense in moving him. I think we need to find another solution for the striker.

Would you leave Jones out for him though, that's the conundrum.

They're two of our better players but they can't both play wide right. He was used there a lot last season whilst Jones was going through his struggles and performed. This season Jones has shone with Forss being hampered by injury.

I'd like to see them both on the pitch and I think a more central position might be worth a gamble while we're struggling with injuries but at the same time he's covering for Jones while he's unavailable.

Carrick and his coaching staff see him every day though, they'll know more about his strengths than any of us.

 

[B_G]

Would you leave Jones out for him though, that's the conundrum.

They're two of our better players but they can't both play wide right. He was used there a lot last season whilst Jones was going through his struggles and performed. This season Jones has shone with Forss being hampered by injury.

I'd like to see them both on the pitch and I think a more central position might be worth a gamble while we're struggling with injuries but at the same time he's covering for Jones while he's unavailable.

Carrick and his coaching staff see him every day though, they'll know more about his strengths than any of us.

Refer to other thread Two threads going at same time about same subject.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

Refer to other thread Two threads going at same time about same subject.

Just noticed that

 

[Merlin]

The fact that is is so successful from the wide position, suggests to me that we leave him there. He might not be as successful through the middle

But given our striker crisis up front wouldn’t it make sense to try him there and see what happens

 

[Dybuk]

It’s about composure, but also some players just have that natural ability to put the ball in the net. You can’t really coach that into someone - yes you can improve technique to an extent but the instinct to be in the right place at the right time and the cool head to finish chances is very much a god given talent that some players have and others haven’t. I think Forss falls into the “those that have” bracket

I disagree. I've coached a lads team for 11 years now (under 18s now). We lost our 'natural finisher' at the end of last season. He was the only one with the composure to stike a ball cleanly hard and low.
Earmarked one of the other lads to become the striker. He worked hard at it against a wall in his spare time and after 4 months he's now a better finisher than the previous lad.
Just takes some time, patience and will to improve (look at Chuba for example).

 

[TeaCider]

I like Forss playing on the right. He's our best player playing in that position. I wouldnt change it when it's working. Moving him to centre forward won't automatically mean he'll get more goals.

He's has 5 Goals and 2 Assists from 498 mins of football from that position this season. Or 1.27 goal contributions per 90 mins played.
That's more than double out next most productive players who are Rogers, Coburn and Crooks who each have 0.55, 0.54 and 0.53 respectively. And 4 times more productive than Jones.

It's a small sample for Forss and I doubt he can maintain that sort of rate but even still it shows he's very effective playing in that position. I don't see the sense in moving him. I think we need to find another solution for the striker.

Sunday's goal wasn't from coming out wide, it was a set piece where he was already in the box.

His goal against West Brom was a penalty.

His assist against Cardiff was him stood near the centre circle and flicking on for Latte Lath.

His other goal against Sunderland was him following in from wide, but it was just tapping in a rebound in the 6 yard box, and his goal against Millwall was him off to the right of Rogers, but it's not a goal that was down to him playing on the wing.

The assist against Blackburn was him crossing in from out wide, and the goal against Rotherham was him drifting in from the right.

So I'd say that's only 1 goal and 1 assist that were actually down to him being played on the wing, 2 where his position started there but they weren't integral to the goal and then 2 goals and an assist that had nothing whatsoever to do with the position.

If he was played centrally, he'd presumably be given more opportunities to shoot too.

 

[Chutney]

I think right now the right hand side is fine for Forss - he's getting goals at a rate we'd love to see maintained and helping defensively. When Jones is back he's got to play, for his workrate as much as any other good stuff he brings, so that's a puzzle.

Maybe Jones on the left? Might give LB the extra cover they've been lacking, and it's not like we'd miss out on Beckhamesque crossing from his wand of a right boot. Being an inverted winger might actually suit him.

 

[B_G]

I think right now the right hand side is fine for Forss - he's getting goals at a rate we'd love to see maintained and helping defensively. When Jones is back he's got to play, for his workrate as much as any other good stuff he brings, so that's a puzzle.

Maybe Jones on the left? Might give LB the extra cover they've been lacking, and it's not like we'd miss out on Beckhamesque crossing from his wand of a right boot. Being an inverted winger might actually suit him.

If McGree wasn't due back I could go along with that and say it's worth a try, But McGree should be back for Bristol and that's been his best position for us under Carrick.

 

[Colgates_shaving_foam]

Sunday's goal wasn't from coming out wide, it was a set piece where he was already in the box.

His goal against West Brom was a penalty.

His assist against Cardiff was him stood near the centre circle and flicking on for Latte Lath.

His other goal against Sunderland was him following in from wide, but it was just tapping in a rebound in the 6 yard box, and his goal against Millwall was him off to the right of Rogers, but it's not a goal that was down to him playing on the wing.

The assist against Blackburn was him crossing in from out wide, and the goal against Rotherham was him drifting in from the right.

So I'd say that's only 1 goal and 1 assist that were actually down to him being played on the wing, 2 where his position started there but they weren't integral to the goal and then 2 goals and an assist that had nothing whatsoever to do with the position.

If he was played centrally, he'd presumably be given more opportunities to shoot too.

He might not get as many opportunities to shoot if he was playing up top as he would be more likely to be marked.

Drifting in allows him to find that space.

I definitely wouldn't be averse to giving him a go up there once Jones is back though.

 

[B_G]

If he was played centrally, he'd presumably be given more opportunities to shoot too.

That's not necessarily how it works though. He'd likely have 2 CBs to contend with for most of the match. It's a totally different role. He'd likely be spending a lot of the match with his back to the goal.

Would Foden score more goals if you threw him up front rather than playing from the left? (He scored all of his goals last night from a central position too)

Would Salah score more goals as a 9 rather than playing on the right?

Would Akpom have scored more goals playing as a 9 last season rather than a 10?

I doubt it in all scenarios. Sometimes players are just more suited to playing off the striker rather than as the striker and I think Forss is one of those players. He did get a few chances under Wilder as a striker in a front 2 and struggled. Of course the whole team was struggling at the time. He has looked a far better player since Carrick has moved him out to the right.

 

[TeaCider]

That's not necessarily how it works though. He'd likely have 2 CBs to contend with for most of the match. It's a totally different role. He'd likely be spending a lot of the match with his back to the goal.

Would Foden score more goals if you threw him up front rather than playing from the left? (He scored all of his goals last night from a central position too)

Would Salah score more goals as a 9 rather than playing on the right?

Would Akpom have scored more goals playing as a 9 last season rather than a 10?

I doubt it in all scenarios. Sometimes players are just more suited to playing off the striker rather than as the striker and I think Forss is one of those players. He did get a few chances under Wilder as a striker in a front 2 and struggled. Of course the whole team was struggling at the time. He has looked a far better player since Carrick has moved him out to the right.

Salah and Foden have played in those positions for most of their career, and have never really been strikers.

Forss has been a striker his whole career until Carrick decided he preferred Crooks up top late last December.

I like him playing out wide, but when we don't have any other functioning strikers, and he is one, then it seems daft not to give him another go there.

Especially if McGree is back and we can have a greater number of wide options.

 

[Chutney]

If McGree wasn't due back I could go along with that and say it's worth a try, But McGree should be back for Bristol and that's been his best position for us under Carrick.

This is very true. Unfortunately we've got a handful of individuals who "have" to play in that front 4, but none of them are the CF. Maybe we just go full on pre-Haaland City and decide strikers are just a bit embarrassing and not bother.

 

[B_G]

Salah and Foden have played in those positions for most of their career, and have never really been strikers.

Forss has been a striker his whole career until Carrick decided he preferred Crooks up top late last December.

I like him playing out wide, but when we don't have any other functioning strikers, and he is one, then it seems daft not to give him another go there.

Especially if McGree is back and we can have a greater number of wide options.

You are reinforcing my point. Forss has played as a striker most of his career but his goalscoring return is better in the last 12 months than it was when he played as a striker

This is very true. Unfortunately we've got a handful of individuals who "have" to play in that front 4, but none of them are the CF. Maybe we just go full on pre-Haaland City and decide strikers are just a bit embarrassing and not bother.

That's effectively what we are doing with Greenwood up there! For what it's worth I'd play McGree on the left every game he's available and Forss on the right every game he is available. They were both a big part of why we were so good last season and they've looked equally as good this season when they've played.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

Salah and Foden have played in those positions for most of their career, and have never really been strikers.

Forss has been a striker his whole career until Carrick decided he preferred Crooks up top late last December.

I like him playing out wide, but when we don't have any other functioning strikers, and he is one, then it seems daft not to give him another go there.

Especially if McGree is back and we can have a greater number of wide options.

Like Akpom, Forss wasn't a successful striker at senior level, both have shone scoring goals from a different position, it's why they ended up dropping to a lower level.

Forss might be able to fill the role vacated by Akpom, he's strong enough to do it but whether he has the ability or not the club backroom staff will know.

 

[changingman]

I think it's as important to get a settled front 4 at the moment. One of the reasons we've struggled at the top of the pitch this season is the understanding/relationship between those four players (knowing when to make space, pass, awareness etc). Appreciate our front four isn't the quality it was last season but we need those relationships to develop imo and we'll see an uptick in our attacking play.

 

[TeaCider]

You are reinforcing my point. Forss has played as a striker most of his career but his goalscoring return is better in the last 12 months than it was when he played as a striker

My point isn't that Forss is better as a striker though, whether he is or not.

My point is that we don't play with one right now and it's hamstringing us, and when we did have them they weren't scoring enough anyway.

Forss has just become our joint top scorer and he's missed most of the season.

We've only had two goals from a player starting as a striker for us in our last 12 home games, and we lost both those games to boot.
We're barely scoring at home as is.

Until Latte Lath is fit again, and he's not exactly firing on all cylinders this season anyway, I would sooner play the actual striker as a striker.

Greenwood is also seen as a striker, but I think Forss is much more clinical.