Keir Starmer - FoM now a red-line

ForssAwakens said:
when it comes to fptp there has to be a compromise to your politics. They’ll be no party that will ever fit you perfectly

Corbyn is about as close to a list of politics that best fit me as a person, I think he was successful in 2017, made a mistake on brexit in 2019

That ship has sailed. This country is on it backside, at the moment what are the most important things facing this country:

Nhs/healthcare
People on welfare
Wages
Economic growth

Starmer’s Labour are currently the best people to deal with that. Although his politics don’t align to mine, he will make the poorer better than they are today (although won’t go far enough) and as someone with socialist values that has to be choice, even if isnt that palatable
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You've given a good explanation as to why someone might want to compromise. My question was more to do with the fact that the left have comprised repeatedly and got nowhere.

Compromised on Kinnock.
Compromised on Smith.
Compromised on Blair.
Compromised on Brown.
Compromised on Miliband.

Now we're being asked to compromise on Starmer when those asking weren't prepared to compromise on Corbyn.

Once it's clear it's a one way street you can choose to head down it the wrong way or you can choose a different path.

Getting the Tories out was as (if not more) important a decade ago.

Just because the effects are now being felt by ever more wealthy people doesn't mean the Tories are suddenly worse.
 
SuperStu said:
In a compromise both sides will get something. Starmer's Labour has offered nothing to the left. It's not compromise they're after, it's capitulation.
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I suppose it depends on what you want. Tories out? Less taxation of the poor? State owned renewable generation? Privatization of the rail network? Better payrises for public sector workers? To name just a few things you might get. Corbyn, nah you won't get that. Compromise!
 
Laughing said:
I suppose it depends on what you want. Tories out? Less taxation of the poor? State owned renewable generation? Privatization of the rail network? Better payrises for public sector workers? To name just a few things you might get. Corbyn, nah you won't get that. Compromise!
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We'd have had all those things if compromise hadn't been a dirty word 3 years ago.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me - you won't get fooled again...
 
Scrote said:
You've given a good explanation as to why someone might want to compromise. My question was more to do with the fact that the left have comprised repeatedly and got nowhere.

Compromised on Kinnock.
Compromised on Smith.
Compromised on Blair.
Compromised on Brown.
Compromised on Miliband.

Now we're being asked to compromise on Starmer when those asking weren't prepared to compromise on Corbyn.

Once it's clear it's a one way street you can choose to head down it the wrong way or you can choose a different path.

Getting the Tories out was as (if not more) important a decade ago.

Just because the effects are now being felt by ever more wealthy people doesn't mean the Tories are suddenly worse.
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thats the problem with parties that encompass and wide range of views. Both conservative and Labour. Labour is probably only going to reach out to the far left/socialist every few leaders, you will always have to compromise, you can’t expect you get your perfect party.

I’m sure plenty compromised on corbyn, to get 40% they would have had to. People more aligned to Blair voted for corbyn, you can use a minority of people who didn’t compromise to say that you shouldn’t have if they dont (that’s whataboutery by the way, the thing we slam tories for)

Labour/conservative attract a wide reach of people, ultimately the way the party is shaped is a fluid thing and will always be that way until they system is changed from FPTP

Labour conference voted for PR, so starmer might (he may not follow through on it, but he’s the best chance of it) be your best chance of making politics move to a place where you want it to be

Btw it’s never a one way street, as this current govt shows.
 
Scrote said:
We'd have had all those things if compromise hadn't been a dirty word 3 years ago.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me - you won't get fooled again...
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Except Corbyn wasn't electable. Too many issues and baggage. Oh wait he was crippled from within the party, I remember that. You probably need to grow up a little bit and live in the real world.
 
Laughing said:
Except Corbyn wasn't electable. Too many issues and baggage. Oh wait he was crippled from within the party, I remember that. You probably need to grow up a little bit and live in the real world.
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He was electable, he got 40% of people voting for him
 
Laughing said:
I suppose it depends on what you want. Tories out? Less taxation of the poor? State owned renewable generation? Privatization of the rail network? Better payrises for public sector workers? To name just a few things you might get. Corbyn, nah you won't get that. Compromise!
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Less taxation of the poor? Don't recall seeing such a policy. Is that based on something or just a hunch? Remember Reeves is his chancellor. The one who says shes more tory than the tories, and who says its not a party for benefits scroungers. I wouldn't hold your breath on much charity coming to the poor from her.

Do you mean nationalisation of the rail network rather than privatisation. If so, I doubt it will happen. The shadow cabinet don't seem to all be on the same page about it already. It's exactly the sort of policy they'll be happy to go back on asap.

Better payrises for public sector workers? Well Starmer went around quoting a smaller rise for nurses than the tories ultimately agreed to. And he's sacked shadow cabinet members for joining picket lines. Again what are you basing this on? Just guesswork and vibes?

The renewable energy if I've understood it right isn't planned to be state owned. It's a fund that a Starmer gov will use to build the infrastructure and then he apparently wants to let private companies sell the energy produced and cream off all the profits. I meant ultimately it'll be a public good if it means less pollution but I don't really see it as a fully thought out policy. I expect its another that will change quite a bit before it happens, if it ever does happen.
 
SuperStu said:
Less taxation of the poor? Don't recall seeing such a policy. Is that based on something or just a hunch? Remember Reeves is his chancellor. The one who says shes more tory than the tories, and who says its not a party for benefits scroungers. I wouldn't hold your breath on much charity coming to the poor from her.

Do you mean nationalisation of the rail network rather than privatisation. If so, I doubt it will happen. The shadow cabinet don't seem to all be on the same page about it already. It's exactly the sort of policy they'll be happy to go back on asap.

Better payrises for public sector workers? Well Starmer went around quoting a smaller rise for nurses than the tories ultimately agreed to. And he's sacked shadow cabinet members for joining picket lines. Again what are you basing this on? Just guesswork and vibes?

The renewable energy if I've understood it right isn't planned to be state owned. It's a fund that a Starmer gov will use to build the infrastructure and then he apparently wants to let private companies sell the energy produced and cream off all the profits. I meant ultimately it'll be a public good if it means less pollution but I don't really see it as a fully thought out policy. I expect its another that will change quite a bit before it happens, if it ever does happen.
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You seem to use a lot of hunches yourself
 
Scrote said:
What compromise did you make? What did you want that Corbyn wasn't offering?
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Why is that relevant? I told you that I compromised and that should be enough for you. You've stated that you compromised on Labour leaders going back to Kinnock without expanding.

So I'll ask again, what else can I do?
 
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