Kieran Scott’s recruitment really coming to fruition now

[Ravshoutsatbeck]

I think those hoping we will make big signings in the summer will be disappointed.

I suspect it will be similar to last summer but with a very slightly bigger budget. I wouldn't be surprised if the same way we took a chance on

But I think we will lose less players.

I'm hoping we invest mostly in a few options in the deep midfield positions, a right back and some more punts in the attacking positions.

 

[BoroMart]

However - The initial £15 million has still been spent - we don't get the physical money back, even if it hasn't been lost in terms of FFP.

Not quite how ffp works.

15m transfer can be paid in any way, could have been 15m up front or 7.5m then 7.5m 12 months later or whatever else.

FFP the 15m was amortised over the life of the contract. It was a four year contract so 3.75m on each years accounts. But ffp is calculated on a 3 year window. So even two years after Britt left 3.75m of his fee was still hitting our ffp calculations.

These aren’t losses. They’re just accounting practices and football accounting regulations.

We still invested 15m in a playing contract plus another 8m on his wages. Then he left for free. So the cost of his tenure was circa 23m. It contributed to the accounting losses for the years we were paying his wages and transfer fee

 

[Laughing]

I’m not “upset” at Mart’s musings.
It’s just his absolute certainty about his own valuations and analysis that are a joke.
I am not saying it is impossible for us to transform into a promotion serious squad, but Scott will have to shape up and bring quality not padding.
We are massively short on quality.

It's a difference of opinion. You don't think the squad is good enough for promotion. Others have a different opinion. That's OK and creates interesting debate like this thread.

 

[Ash88]

I’m not “upset” at Mart’s musings.
It’s just his absolute certainty about his own valuations and analysis that are a joke.
I am not saying it is impossible for us to transform into a promotion serious squad, but Scott will have to shape up and bring quality not padding.
We are massively short on quality.

It's all opinion, but some of us would disagree and suggest we're short on the padding.

Dieng is a top 6 championship GK in my opinion.

Lenihan captained Blackburn. Clarke won player of the year at West Brom. Dael Fry was one of the most valuable CBs in the league (£7m) less than two seasons ago.
I realise those facts historical, but outside of the big 3 (Leicester, Southampton, Leeds)... FULLY FIT, find me a team with 3 better CBs?

Tommy Smith played 31/32 games for Carrick last season - We spent the majority of those games sitting 3rd or 4th in the league.
Luke Thomas is the most valuable LB in the league according to Transfermarkt - Do I agree? Probably not, but he has only started 5 games for us.

Hackney is one of the most valuable CDMs in the league.
Lewis O'Brien took a very average Huddersfield team to the play-offs two seasons ago and was signed by Forest for £8 million.
I still think Howson's got the goods in this division too.

The problem this season has been - every single one of the above players has been out for a long period of time.

Lenihan was our first choice CB - played the first 8 games - injured for the rest of the season.
Smith was one of the first names on Carrick's team sheet - played 6 games - injured for the rest of the season.
Clarke missed the first 12 games and was benched for the next 6 - coming back from a serious injury.
Hackney's missed 21 games. O'Brien's missed 17 games. Fry's missed the last 12 games.

 

[Ash88]

Not quite how ffp works.

15m transfer can be paid in any way, could have been 15m up front or 7.5m then 7.5m 12 months later or whatever else.

FFP the 15m was amortised over the life of the contract. It was a four year contract so 3.75m on each years accounts. But ffp is calculated on a 3 year window. So even two years after Britt left 3.75m of his fee was still hitting our ffp calculations.

These aren’t losses. They’re just accounting practices and football accounting regulations.

We still invested 15m in a playing contract plus another 8m on his wages. Then he left for free. So the cost of his tenure was circa 23m. It contributed to the accounting losses for the years we were paying his wages and transfer fee

If we buy a player for £15 million and release him on a free.

It doesn't matter if it's how FFP works - One way or another, we have lost £15 million.... which was my point.

Fans can't just forget about massive losses - but remember a £10m profit for years and complain we're not spending it.

 

[BoroMart]

It’s just his absolute certainty about his own valuations and analysis that are a joke.

Grow up man. There’s no “absolute certainty” from me, no mention of such a thing in fact….thats your deranged projection.

At no point have I stated these are anything but my own ‘musings’, guess what it’s a football message board, people muse on their opinions. The joke is that you want to shut down someone else’s opinions as a ‘joke’ because they don’t match yours.

This is why you are on my block list, playing the man not the ball, in a hyper-critical and abusive manner, while actually offering absolutely zilch of interest to the debate.

 

[Diego]

It's all opinion, but some of us would disagree and suggest we're short on the padding.

Dieng is a top 6 championship GK in my opinion.

Lenihan captained Blackburn. Clarke won player of the year at West Brom. Dael Fry was one of the most valuable CBs in the league (£7m) less than two seasons ago.
I realise those facts historical, but outside of the big 3 (Leicester, Southampton, Leeds)... FULLY FIT, find me a team with 3 better CBs?

Tommy Smith played 31/32 games for Carrick last season - We spent the majority of those games sitting 3rd or 4th in the league.
Luke Thomas is the most valuable LB in the league according to Transfermarkt - Do I agree? Probably not, but he has only started 5 games for us.

Hackney is one of the most valuable CDMs in the league.
Lewis O'Brien took a very average Huddersfield team to the play-offs two seasons ago and was signed by Forest for £8 million.
I still think Howson's got the goods in this division too.

The problem this season has been - every single one of the above players has been out for a long period of time.

Lenihan was our first choice CB - played the first 8 games - injured for the rest of the season.
Smith was one of the first names on Carrick's team sheet - played 6 games - injured for the rest of the season.
Clarke missed the first 12 games and was benched for the next 6 - coming back from a serious injury.
Hackney's missed 21 games. O'Brien's missed 17 games. Fry's missed the last 12 games.

If only Fry missed the last 12 before that we may in the playoffs by now! So poor

 

[BoroMart]

If we buy a player for £15 million and release him on a free.

It doesn't matter if it's how FFP works - One way or another, we have lost £15 million.... which was my point.

Fans can't just forget about massive losses - but remember a £10m profit for years and complain we're not spending it.

I agree that it’s a negative on the balance sheet that can be a loss. You are violently agreeing with me. You brought up ffp, I just clarified how it works.

 

[AytonMews]

Looking at the squads over the last 4 seasons, it's been a massive overhaul in playing asset value. I think from where we were 4 years ago we have improved quality in every department, and improved the squad value, and done without building debt, in fact selling Akpom, Tav and Spence has pretty much paid for the overhaul. The progression is there to see,

	20/21	21/22	22/23	23/24
GK	Pears £500k Stojanovik £500k Bryn £100k Total = 1.1m Quality = D	Lumley 1m Stojanovic 500k Brynn 250k Daniels 500k​ Total = 2.25m Quality = C	Lumley 500k Roberts 500k Daniels 500k Brynn 500k Total = 2m Quality = C	Dieng 5m Glover 500k Jones 0 Brynn 1m Total = 6.5m Quality = A (GK department is good enough for auto promotion)
DF	Fry 6m McNair 4m Hall 1m Wood 100k Stubbs 100k Bola 500k Coulson 500k Dijksteel 1m Spence 7m Fisher 500k Total = 20.7m Quality = B (7-12th in champo)	Fry 6m McNair 4m Hall 1m Wood 100k Bamba 100k Bola 500k Coulson 500k Taylor 500k Dijksteel 1m Spence 7m Fisher 500k Peltier 300k Total = 21.5m Quality = B	Fry 5m McNair 3.5m Lenihan 3m Clarke 3m Hall 500k Bola 300k Coulson 100k Dijksteel 500k Smith 500k Fisher 0 Total = 16.4m Quality = B- (didn't really own viable championship fullbacks)	Fry 3m McNair 0 Van Den Berg 15m Clarke 4m Lenihan 2m Engel 1m Bangura 1m Dijksteel 500k Smith 100k Total = 26.6m Quality = B play off quality
MF	Hackney 100k Saville 1.5m Wing 1m Morsy 1m Howson 1m Tavernier 12m Total = 16.6m Quality = B	Hackney 300k Payero 2m Morsy 1m Howson 1m Boyd-Munce 100k Tavernier 12m Total = 16.4m Quality = B	Hackney 6m Barlaser 1.5m Boyd-Munce100k Howson 250k Conteh 100k Payero 2m Total = 9.95m Quality = B-	Hackney 18m Barlaser 1m Howson 0m Total = 19m Quality B- lacks an extra option
Wing	Browne 300k Jones 1m Total = 1.3m Quality = D	Olusanya 100k Jones 5m Ameobi 500k McGree 3m Total = 8.6m Quality = B-	Sivi 100k McGree 5m Jones 3m Forss 3m Total = 11.1m Quality B+	McGree 4m Silvera 1m Gilbert 100k Jones 4m Forss 4m Total = 13.1m Quality = B+
CF and 10s	Watmore 1m Akpom 2m Assombalonga 2m Fletcher 1m Coburn 100k Total = 6.1m Quality = B-	Crooks 1.5m Akpom 2m Ikpeazu 500k Coburn 500k Watmore 1.5m Total = 6m Quality = C	Watmore 500k Akpom 12m Hoppe 500k Kavanagh 100k Finch 100k Total = 13.2m Quality = B	Coburn 1.5m Hoppe 500k Lath 6m Azaz 2m Total = 10m Quality = B
	Total = 45.8m Quality C (12-18th in the champo level	Total = 54.75m Quality = B- (10-12th quality)	Total = 52.7m Quality = B (7th - 12th)	Total = 75.2m Quality = B+ (borderline play offs)

Good post Mart

 

[AytonMews]

We already had Hackney, absolutely **** all to do with Scott.

You’re grasping at straws yet again.

You said our squad is worth less this season than it was 2 years ago. That is bull**** and you know it. But you will never ever ever ever admit it.

Classic Davey Rogers

 

[Muttley]

The funny thing is you actually believe your endless musings

Irony isn't your strong point is it Mr Dido

 

[Paulh10]

He has made a massive difference we where crying out for DOF for along time.Done some great deals in and out while being here compared to some of the shocking deals b4 such as paying over the odds for fletcher,britt and saville etc.He is finding some right gems.

 

[BoroMart]

The funny thing is you actually believe your endless musings.

Everybody has their beliefs. My ‘musings’ are approximations, I said “I think from where we were 4 years ago we have improved quality”. I THINK, not I KNOW. No absolutes, no facts, you don’t have to be a nob every day you know.

- You were wrong to say I said this is some kind of fact
- You were playing the man not the ball because you haven’t actually refuted any specifics, or added any flesh on the bones why you don’t agree with it, just that I’m wrong and you are right.

You’re just being a curmudgeonous, cantankerous, arrogant plank, which is why you’re blocked. I like to talk and debate footy, I like when someone has strong conflicting opinions and we can challenge each other, and learn something, challenge our own perceptions, but it should be done without the utter contempt you hold for anyone with an opposing opinion.

Anyway, enough, back on block, you’ve had an opportunity to offer some pearls of wisdom, and you’ve just offered attitude, nothing worth listening to I’m afraid.

 

[BoroMart]

It's all opinion, but some of us would disagree and suggest we're short on the padding.

Dieng is a top 6 championship GK in my opinion.

Lenihan captained Blackburn. Clarke won player of the year at West Brom. Dael Fry was one of the most valuable CBs in the league (£7m) less than two seasons ago.
I realise those facts historical, but outside of the big 3 (Leicester, Southampton, Leeds)... FULLY FIT, find me a team with 3 better CBs?

Tommy Smith played 31/32 games for Carrick last season - We spent the majority of those games sitting 3rd or 4th in the league.
Luke Thomas is the most valuable LB in the league according to Transfermarkt - Do I agree? Probably not, but he has only started 5 games for us.

Hackney is one of the most valuable CDMs in the league.
Lewis O'Brien took a very average Huddersfield team to the play-offs two seasons ago and was signed by Forest for £8 million.
I still think Howson's got the goods in this division too.

The problem this season has been - every single one of the above players has been out for a long period of time.

Lenihan was our first choice CB - played the first 8 games - injured for the rest of the season.
Smith was one of the first names on Carrick's team sheet - played 6 games - injured for the rest of the season.
Clarke missed the first 12 games and was benched for the next 6 - coming back from a serious injury.
Hackney's missed 21 games. O'Brien's missed 17 games. Fry's missed the last 12 games.

Yes agree
Gk we’re stacked and top 6 ready
Cb pretty much the same
Fbs are difficult to judge but not quite play off quality
mf short on numbers but hackneys top draw for the champo
Wingers Forss, jones and McGree have already proven they’re good enough for a play off side
Lath is a 20+ striker, Coburn a 12+ backip

We’re not a million miles away. This summer will hopefully be a better core to start with from last year.

 

[On The Bob]

Whilst our current position is nowhere near as successful as we want it to be, the “ferking chite” brigade never fail to surprise me. Sure some people are only happy when being ultra negative!

We’re on the edge of the play offs in one of the most competitive Championships seasons in many years. Points tally’s are much higher than they’ve been for most of the higher positions for a good few seasons.

We’ve done this on the back recruitment that’s been “awful”, according to some. With an injury list a mile long for most of the season. Surely if we / the recruitment was that bad, we’d be closer to the relegation places than the play offs?

I’m not saying our position is where we or the club want to be. It’s not been a successful season vs. Last. But with the amount of change in personnel and injuries, it’s been far from a disaster.

Yes, certain aspects of the recruitment hasn’t been perfect and not signing a striker in January was probably a mistake - even a short term loan, but on the whole, we’ve seen many positives.

Some signings have looked poor, but percentage chances always mean that’s bound to happen when recruiting in the numbers we did.

We’re seeing some of the potential of our better summer signings really coming out towards the end of this season. Rav and Manu most certainly. Even Clarke has been a huge bonus who we signed previously.

If we can keep the core of this squad together and add some more quality in midfield, wide areas, and another striker. We’ll have a good chance of having a really positive season next year. Some of the long term injuries coming back will also be like new signings.

I’ve always said this season was a transitional season. I still see good foundations being built.

Some people let their predefined judgments cloud their overall ability to have any kind of balanced opinion. We aren’t brilliant but we are far from terrible. We aren’t that far away.

In 12 months if we’ve completely bombed out, happy for this to be hoofed and eat humble pie. With the right summer recruitment though, I think we’ll do well.

 

[Redwurzel]

For me the squad is stronger than it was 3 years ago - our points will be less than last season and probably just below the total of 2 years ago, but we didn't suffer the injuries we have suffered this season. Excessive injuries must have taken around 10 points off us this season.

 

[Canyoudigit]

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread who could we have realistically brought in who would have improved us, every time I've seen the lad philogene from Hull I've been very impressed, I think given his Aston Villa background he could have been someone we looked to bring in,I know he went for a reasonable sum but we have made a fair bit in previous seasons with sales with the likes of Chuba,Tav,Spence ect

 

[BoroMart]

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread who could we have realistically brought in who would have improved us, every time I've seen the lad philogene from Hull I've been very impressed, I think given his Aston Villa background he could have been someone we looked to bring in,I know he went for a reasonable sum but we have made a fair bit in previous seasons with sales with the likes of Chuba,Tav,Spence ect

I did put his name forward in the summer, what did they pay for him? 6m? Him on our left instead of Greenwood and we'd be planning for wembley.

 

[LaPennaBianca]

It's one where £6m would have been really well spent.

Ideally with the Rogers money and FFP headroom we can afford to spend that the right player this summer.

 

[Frozen Horse]

In judging KS's dealings, I think the key question to ask is, were they signed for this 23/24 season?

The club is always going to be upbeat at the start of a season but, certainly by January, I think they recognised that this was not going to be a promotion year.
It used to be players from overseas were given a year to adapt to the English game. As he nears the end of his first season, we're just seeing the best of ELL. I expect to see all the other overseas signings continue to improve into next season too.

So, was the intention always to treat this season as a development year and the club moved on from the failed rent-a-team approach?

If so, you can disagree with that policy all you like. However, the success of the transfer policy would have to be judged next season, rather than this.