Not quite. I don't know how much he is on (£5k a week maybe?). That's £260k per year so we need to get at least that in a sale to be profitable on just this season. Would we even get that? If we just release him then it's £260k we've spent on a few very poor appearances.
Kieran Scott on Twe12th Man Podcast.
- Thread starter TeaCider
- Start date
Marvanelli
Well-known member
Yes, and they realised this and hence why we transferred in players in the summer instead of going into the loan market again. We realised this didn't work (although it nearly did!) and therefore, you need to give the squad and team time. What we did in the summer was a huge overhaul. To expect them to gel and start like a train would be foolish and very unrealistic.
We have already seen a decent ROI with the signings from last summer with the big sale and profit on Rogers.
You do realise replacing a 28 goal a season player is very very difficult at our level? We don't have the money and resources to go blast £15m/£20m+ on a proven striker for this division. Latte was bought in the hope he could help fill that huge gap Chuba & Archer left. His injuries haven't helped the situation which highlights the lack of depth up top even more so.
I've already said we are a striker light and in the summer we should have signed another striker.
But other than signing another striker in the summer, our recruitment was good.
As for the signings, I have to agree with @Bruce much more positives than negatives.
I think we did well with what was a nigh on impossible task last summer. Losing about £50-60m worth of talent, and having to fill about another 5 additional places in our squad on top of those we lost at the same time.
I think it was some poor recruitment in the 3-4 years leading up to last summer that left us in a poor position.
We have rectified those issues now and actually have a fairly well balanced squad that are the right age and, cruciallly, we actually own.
I this summer could well be make or break for the Carrick regime, as we will now be in a position to add real quality rather than quantity.
2 or 3 signings in the £5-6m bracket, rather than 12 signings for about £12m in total.
I think it was some poor recruitment in the 3-4 years leading up to last summer that left us in a poor position.
We have rectified those issues now and actually have a fairly well balanced squad that are the right age and, cruciallly, we actually own.
I this summer could well be make or break for the Carrick regime, as we will now be in a position to add real quality rather than quantity.
2 or 3 signings in the £5-6m bracket, rather than 12 signings for about £12m in total.
You're kinda right that we haven't made much progress in terms of position in the table
You could argue that we are now doing it without splurging millions on bang average players, and are actually making a good return on the players we sell - so to maintain our league performance "on the cheap" shows some kind of improvement
The key is the next step (as always!) - we are now hopefully in the same position as a few years back, albeit with more financial muscle. Keep going with "the model" and get ourselves healthy, all the while improving upon the players we buy initially. Instead of £1-2m players, we could be looking at £2-4m players who will hopefully improve performances on the pitch and start selling in the future for £20-30m instead of £10-15m
allied_assault
Well-known member
I agree with most of this except for Lath who I think has talent - love to see him get a long run in the team - his goal against Leeds was superb.
The jury is out on Silvera - players need some time.
BoroMart
Well-known member
Yes we did, and we need to to keep afloat. But at the time scott came in Spence wanted out of the club.
He was sold because he wouldn't sign a new deal and wanted out through lack of game time. We got a hefty sell on clause added. Rav Van Den Berg is the direct replacement as our young promising CB, and is a far better prospect
I would prefer a younger howson
Tav and Hackney are like for like, although Hackney has a higher ceiling. KS got a good fee for Tav, and ensured we kept our asset value by getting Hackney signede up long term
Barlaser cost 1m Saville cost 7. He's slightly better than Saville and infinitely better than Wing.
McGree or an aged Bolasie?
Jones now with experience or Jones then?
Forss and Azaz or Mendez-Laing and Browne.
Yes it was terrible then, but far far better now.
the important bit in an FFP world is value. He inherited poor strikers in their prime on huge wages and ,massive transfer fees. This summer will be the first year we are financially free from Britt and Fletcher from an FFP calculation. Britt alone was about 5.5m last year on our FFP, and 11m the year before that. We now have FFP space and yes, we need strikers, we brought in Lath who has done ok at 4m and Rogers who was sold on quickly at massive profit. rogers wasn't really ready to paly CF, but will be in 18months and that was the plan, ease him into it.
Dieng or Archer
Glover or Stojanovic
Bangura or Marvin Johnson
Rav Van Den Berg or Wood
Lenihan or Hall
Barlaser or Saville
McGree or Bolasie
Forss or Mendez-Laing
Azaz or Browne
Lath or Britt
I'd be shocked at anyone who would take the old option over the new option on pretty much any of those. Of course we have improved, while bringing the age down and taking the asset values up
binghamered
Member
Injuries has destroyed our season. Even on Sunday you are missing Latte who if he came on with 20 minutes to go with his pace would have caused them problems. Jones cut them apart up there, McGree has been out months and Crooks is a useful sub for me. So virtually all season we are 5-6 players missing from each match. The recruitment made 3 big successes last summer (Dieng, Rogers and Van der Berg). That is the positives. Give Azaz a few games (remember Rogers after 2 months!) Even If we had an average start after 7 games (say 8 points) that would have us in play offs now even with the injuries. So I think the future looks good, it is obvious another striker is key this summer. Sounds like Hackney will stay another year, so 2-3 good signings (like last summer) without the exits would put us in a strong position next year, particularly as Sheff utd and Burnley are joining us. Luton or Forest (if they go really are in it) would not be as strong as the 3 this year. Lets be honest we are a million miles away from premier standard at the minute so another year would benefit us.
Well let's look at performance:
19/20 - 17th
20/21 - 10th
21/22 - 7th
22/23 - 4th
23/24 - ????
Even the most optimistic Boro fans would find it difficult to expect us to improve on last years 4th from where we are now. We could realistically finish anywhere from 5th - 15th. Some mitigating factors this season with injuries but it also highlighted a lot of the players brought in last summer weren't at the right level to mount a real promotion push. I'm not talking about having an outside chance of getting in the play offs with 17 matches left. I mean being right up there competing with the top 2 and looking at play-offs as a fall back. The squad last season was good enough to do that.
If we aren't up there looking to improve on that 4th position next season then you've either got to accept that the squad has got weaker through poor recruitment or the management is failing to get the best out of the squad.
19/20 - 17th
20/21 - 10th
21/22 - 7th
22/23 - 4th
23/24 - ????
Even the most optimistic Boro fans would find it difficult to expect us to improve on last years 4th from where we are now. We could realistically finish anywhere from 5th - 15th. Some mitigating factors this season with injuries but it also highlighted a lot of the players brought in last summer weren't at the right level to mount a real promotion push. I'm not talking about having an outside chance of getting in the play offs with 17 matches left. I mean being right up there competing with the top 2 and looking at play-offs as a fall back. The squad last season was good enough to do that.
If we aren't up there looking to improve on that 4th position next season then you've either got to accept that the squad has got weaker through poor recruitment or the management is failing to get the best out of the squad.
We surely could get nowhere near his wage demands.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
It doesn't take much if you're comfortable doing it, and are capable in front of a microphone.
It wouldn't take much to get the fans you're talking about calling for his head and club disruption after a slip up.
newyddion
Well-known member
hmm.. I guess so.
So????
Ipswich, Hull and Southampton are all using the loan market effectively this season. As did Burnley last season.
Better players available on loan especially when we don't want to splash out big transfer fees. If that's what it takes to mount a promotion challenge.
Hull have pushed the button on Carvalho, Zaroury, Ohio and Giles. We'll see but I think they are good exciting loans that could have the Archer/Ramsey effect and give them a push them into the play offs.
Meanwhile we are discussing which player we should play out of position up front.
I'm quite happy wit the concept of trying to bring in value players as signings. But getting enough of them of enough quality to build a team that is capable of promotion is a mammoth task. I think it needs to be supplemented with Premier League players. Either talented youth or out of favour experienced players. It's a proven method.
We might see a return to that in the summer - if one or two high quality prem loans become available, we might have a dabble.
Especially now we have accumulated a lot more of our own assets over the last year. I think our transfer policy last summer was an essential part of the process.
Especially now we have accumulated a lot more of our own assets over the last year. I think our transfer policy last summer was an essential part of the process.
newyddion
Well-known member
If we were making enquiries about Diallo and Benson that does suggest that our bar is set HIGH
Ballogun, Ramsey, Archer, Rogers.. we’re not playing dafties here. PREM QUALITY is the name of the game. U23s are proving to be a big hit.. RVDB levels of players we’re looking at.. not forgetting the price has to be right.
I fully agree with "the model". I'm just not going to give Scott a load of praise for it when so far it has achieved very little. He can't claim the successes of selling big money talents he had nothing to do with and then one signing turning a profit without also taking the flak for all the negatives around over-spending on loans, buying dross not fit for the first team even when half the squad is out injured and leaving us completely unprepared to start a season two years in a row.
The model I don't have a problem with. Claiming it has been successful so far I do have a problem with. It was very similar at Norwich. He spent a lot of money and did very little in terms of buying and selling for profit. He sold a lot of players that were signed before his time and had one big success in player sales with Buendia.
This is because of another one of Scott's failings. He hired a manager in Wilder which was completely at odds with the model of developing young players. Wood knew he'd get no football under Wilder so he left when he showed he was good enough for being more involved in our 1st team by performing well at Swansea. Hackney would have been gone as well if Wilder was still there. That was Scott's first major decision and it was a dreadful one.
VDB is not a direct replacement for Wood. We signed him a year later. VDB is a very good signing but he wasn't a direct replacement.
Bolasie was on loan and had a far better pedigree than McGree but I agree he wasn't great for us. Jones' development really has nothing to do with Scott so not sure how you can claim that as anything to do with him otherwise you have to add in how much poorer Fry, McNair, Howson etc are than they were pre-KS. Forss and Azaz are obviously better than ML and Browne but you've missed Neeskens Kebano from the list who was a decent player (and played in Fulham's promotion team the following season and in the PL). Patrick Robert was also with us. You've missed Sam Morsy as well who is playing in a team chasing promotion and is better than Barlaser who you say is worse than Wing but is very similar in that they are very good at doing one specific thing but their all round game isn't very good.
The previous transfer methodology was awful. Recruitment was terrible for years. We spent big money on crap players. None of that being true makes Scott's record an achievement. He's taken over from a dreadfully run regime so the only way was up but so far it has mostly been sideways. I'm just nowhere near ready to claim him as a successful yet when all the evidence points to there being very little progress.