Kieron Scott

It was when Wilder had his “you don’t have to ask me” strop at the Sky reporter that it was obvious something was amiss. I have no doubt that he was flirting with Burnley but have no idea how it got to that point. Boro flying high, great cup run, Wilder getting all the plaudits. And to fancy a switch to relegation threatened Burnley?! Why?

After that I believe the trust was gone on both sides and he should probably have gone in summer. I’ve heard he was in for Watford and Stoke jobs but not sure I believe that TBH. The Sheffield Utd chairman said Wilder offered to resign numerous times in the PL relegation season but wanted a pay off. It’s not a stretch to think he might have said something similar here, with Gibson (like Sheff Utd) saying no - if you resign no payout. So then he starts looking elsewhere/pushes Gibson to sack him.

Whatever the truth it’s been a mess and I’m glad he’s gone. Scott seemed very happy that we’re now following the intended path (14 months late). I have a lot of hope that we could finally be heading in the right direction. UTB!
 
Druss_The_Legend said:
The part I take from that though, Carrick isn't the manager he is head coach, and it was made clear in the press conference he was head coach. I know that is playing with words and I could almost be accused of being pedantic on the wording. But head coach implies that he is more in charge of picking the team and coaching the players, being a manager implies that you have overall responsibility for the first team including transfers. I'm not saying Carrick won't have any say in transfers, and I'm not saying Wilder didn't initially agree to these terms but for what ever reason(maybe it was the perceived failure of the recruitment team) after the January transfer window and certainly in the summer window he wasn't happy with this arrangement.
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I think in practical terms there will be little difference between how CW was expected to operate, and MC.

Scott said that the head coach/manager would always be involved in the decision and the club wouldn't sign a player without his agreement, but I think the label is more about a statement of the desired structure than it is about practicalities.
 
whinneybanksaint said:
Jordan didnt infer to it being the Chelsea game, which was a month before Dyche being sacked.
However smoke and mirrors and all that.
It doesnt tho address the continual chatter Jordan referenced " indexing" by people attached to Wilder
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I don’t believe it is smokes a mirror when wilder is being touted as courting Burnley by evidence of being in the directors box when in reality he was doing his job scouting an opposition team
 
I don't have much faith in anyone at the club. We've seen disaster after disaster in terms of managers and recruitment. Gibson, Scott and Bausor are in charge of those things and very little has gone right for a very long time. One of their biggest mistakes seem to be that they are easily conned and we keep signing managers that are clearly not suitable. Wilder is a chancer and he was clearly looking to get away from us if the right offer was there almost as soon as he was through the door. He thought he was too good for us. Monk was dodgy, Pulis had a reputation for selling players to line his own pockets with the commission, Woodgate was a cheap option but they somehow believed he was capable of delivering on the contents of his presentation. Bausor isn't a football person so I have no idea how he got the job or why he has any say in the football side of things. That's down to Gibson's judgement. Scott has had one job of note before this as a glorified scout so why we are trusting him to run the football side of things long term all rests on Gibson's judgement again which we know is flawed.

We as fans don't get to meet these people and form the opinions ourselves so what looks like a reasonable signing for us that have never had a conversation with these people is very different to how we might think of them if we had. I've worked with people that have been terrible at their job but great at interviews and you wonder how they managed to get to where they have. That's on the interviewer not knowing enough about the person from the limited information presented but in a world where you are paying millions to these people you should be doing proper due diligence. I just don't think Gibson is a good judge of person/character/ability and he can be easily won over. That's why he flip flops between yes men and getting taken advantage of.
 
Everyone else is having a go so my view.

Wilder thinks a lot of himself, sees Boro as a stepping stone. We are doing well his stock is high. Burnley - via third parties on both sides - start to talk to Wilder and his head is turned. PL club, bigger budget, higher profile. He doesn't actually apply - like filling in standard application form off indeed - but definite mural interest. The club find out, talk things through as they don't want to go down the Monk route again. He stays, but not a happy camp.

Wilders demeanor clearly changes, and this affects the players. Relationship with Scott is strained over transfers/philosophies/academy and both parties adopt a professional facade (yeah, everything is good ....). They clearly can't work together. Not good behind the scenes over the summer.

Wilder is disappointed he couldn't get Gayle and Mcgoldrick in, further p*ssed off with the club. Club are not backing him with the Tav/Spence money as they clearly don't trust him and are worried about Monk #2 situation. Club, Wilder and fans all a bit narky. Wilder not happy about recruitment strategy and possibly spending promises broken - the Monk scenario.

Season starts, play well but not getting the results. The Bournemouth link surfaces, things seem to sour further and again his demeanour changes, more noticeably downbeat. Again, transfers to players, and we slump. Definitely looks at this point a number of players are doing the minimum and not busting a gut. Worrying times. Has Wilder thrown his toys out of the pram at this point 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️.

The club start looking at new managers, results continue to be poor, relationship between club and Wilder massively strained and then Coventry was the final straw. Inept display against the bottom club, defeat, bye bye Mr Wilder.

Wilder gets a payoff, signs NDA not to mention why he was sacked, and here we are.

New chapter.
 
Druss_The_Legend said:
This is purely my opinion and reading between the lines. I think when Wilder was appointed both parties agreed on the way things would work, it seems it's a 'recruitment committee' that makes the decisions on the transfers. I feel the first window in January maybe things didn't go to plan and it caused some friction possibly the 'committee' agreed on player A or B but ended up with player E, which was the start of the rift. This may also of had Wilder wanting to take more control of transfers (he was manager not head coach, us now employing a head coach rather than a manager could indicate this). With the cup run it also got his name in the headlines again and judging by his interviews he isn't short on confidence and thought maybe this could be his opportunity to rather get more control of transfers or move to a prem club. When his name got mentioned for the Burnley job the club could of asked him to come out and say he wasn't interested but he used that to get guarantees in the transfer front. From that point though especially with the downturn in form and the rumour mill in full swing the club could of felt like it was being held at ransom(you also need to remember Wilder was probably one of the first main decisions in the Scott era, and his reputation was in ways linked to how successful Wilder would be). Come the summer by reports Wilder wanted players to make an instant impact but the club was following a transfer model of buying player with a future resale value (which I think Scott was brought in to oversee, after the club lost a few high cost players for free over the last couple of years) and making use of the academy(Carrick has mentioned several times he is a big fan of giving young players a chance "if they are good enough they are old enough"). In interviews you could see and hear Wilder getting more and more frustrated. At that point the relationship was virtually irreparable but Wilder wouldn't walk and the club was reluctant to sack him due to financial reasons so the club and Wilder was at a standoff to see who would blink first. It probably came to a head after Wilders last match and the club's poor form and Wilders refusal to change things. The meeting was probably something along the lines of Wilder blamed recruitment and his system worked it was the players at his disposal which wasn't up to standard, but the club told Wilder he has players at his disposal he isn't using and he wasn't trying to change things to get results. So the club made the decision to terminate his contract(could of been an argument and something was said or something new came to light about Wilder asking his agent to look for another job for him etc etc). What springs to mind for me and is that both Wilder and Warnock both had things to say about recruitment and both would be considered "old school" managers, we have replaced them with a head coach which is an indication of the direction we are wanting to move and fits in with the way the club is progressing with a director of football.
This is all obviously just my opinion, educated guesses, reading between the lines and some pure guesswork, but this is my take on the situation.
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Good content. Paragraphs please:)
 
h_m_boro said:
Everyone else is having a go so my view.

Wilder thinks a lot of himself, sees Boro as a stepping stone. We are doing well his stock is high. Burnley - via third parties on both sides - start to talk to Wilder and his head is turned. PL club, bigger budget, higher profile. He doesn't actually apply - like filling in standard application form off indeed - but definite mural interest. The club find out, talk things through as they don't want to go down the Monk route again. He stays, but not a happy camp.

Wilders demeanor clearly changes, and this affects the players. Relationship with Scott is strained over transfers/philosophies/academy and both parties adopt a professional facade (yeah, everything is good ....). They clearly can't work together. Not good behind the scenes over the summer.

Wilder is disappointed he couldn't get Gayle and Mcgoldrick in, further p*ssed off with the club. Club are not backing him with the Tav/Spence money as they clearly don't trust him and are worried about Monk #2 situation. Club, Wilder and fans all a bit narky. Wilder not happy about recruitment strategy and possibly spending promises broken - the Monk scenario.

Season starts, play well but not getting the results. The Bournemouth link surfaces, things seem to sour further and again his demeanour changes, more noticeably downbeat. Again, transfers to players, and we slump. Definitely looks at this point a number of players are doing the minimum and not busting a gut. Worrying times. Has Wilder thrown his toys out of the pram at this point 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️.

The club start looking at new managers, results continue to be poor, relationship between club and Wilder massively strained and then Coventry was the final straw. Inept display against the bottom club, defeat, bye bye Mr Wilder.

Wilder gets a payoff, signs NDA not to mention why he was sacked, and here we are.

New chapter.
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I would agree with pretty much all of that
 
Carrick rightly referred to his decision to move into management from coaching. He talked about management quite a few times.
He almost rolled his eyes when asked about the title. "I've told him, I'm not bothered about titles" nodding sideways at Scott.

My take is Carrick will be more actively looking at the young players coming through and will use them if he deems them good enough.
My take is he will look to get the best out of the squad he has without bias.
My take is that he will not accept "gifts" from Kieran, or Steve and will have deciding vote on signings.
 
As has been said on this thread, the ‘downturn’ in form around the time of these Burnley links is seriously overstated and completely exaggerated.

Sheffield United 4-1 Boro
Millwall 0-0 Boro
Birmingham 0-2 Boro
Peterborough 0-4 Boro
Boro 0-1 Fulham
Boro 0-1 Hull

Burnley links happen.

Bournemouth 0-0 Boro
Boro 0-2 Huddersfield
Swansea 1-1 Boro
Boro 2-0 Cardiff
Boro 3-1 Stoke
Preston 4-1 Boro

The six-game runs are almost identical. In fact we picked up a point more in the six games AFTER the Burnley stuff than we did the six games previous.

Where is the supposed downturn, the catastrophic collapse?
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
As has been said on this thread, the ‘downturn’ in form around the time of these Burnley links is seriously overstated and completely exaggerated.

Sheffield United 4-1 Boro
Millwall 0-0 Boro
Birmingham 0-2 Boro
Peterborough 0-4 Boro
Boro 0-1 Fulham
Boro 0-1 Hull

Burnley links happen.

Bournemouth 0-0 Boro
Boro 0-2 Huddersfield
Swansea 1-1 Boro
Boro 2-0 Cardiff
Boro 3-1 Stoke
Preston 4-1 Boro

The six-game runs are almost identical.

Where is the supposed downturn, the catastrophic collapse?
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You don't expect the gossiping fishwives to show evidence, surely?
 
Ripley11 said:
It was when Wilder had his “you don’t have to ask me” strop at the Sky reporter that it was obvious something was amiss. I have no doubt that he was flirting with Burnley but have no idea how it got to that point. Boro flying high, great cup run, Wilder getting all the plaudits. And to fancy a switch to relegation threatened Burnley?! Why?
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I explained it before the people buying Burnley were the same he was negotiation with to buy shef u THERE WAS A DIRECT LINK.
 
Nano said:
I don't have much faith in anyone at the club. We've seen disaster after disaster in terms of managers and recruitment. Gibson, Scott and Bausor are in charge of those things and very little has gone right for a very long time. One of their biggest mistakes seem to be that they are easily conned and we keep signing managers that are clearly not suitable. Wilder is a chancer and he was clearly looking to get away from us if the right offer was there almost as soon as he was through the door. He thought he was too good for us. Monk was dodgy, Pulis had a reputation for selling players to line his own pockets with the commission, Woodgate was a cheap option but they somehow believed he was capable of delivering on the contents of his presentation. Bausor isn't a football person so I have no idea how he got the job or why he has any say in the football side of things. That's down to Gibson's judgement. Scott has had one job of note before this as a glorified scout so why we are trusting him to run the football side of things long term all rests on Gibson's judgement again which we know is flawed.

We as fans don't get to meet these people and form the opinions ourselves so what looks like a reasonable signing for us that have never had a conversation with these people is very different to how we might think of them if we had. I've worked with people that have been terrible at their job but great at interviews and you wonder how they managed to get to where they have. That's on the interviewer not knowing enough about the person from the limited information presented but in a world where you are paying millions to these people you should be doing proper due diligence. I just don't think Gibson is a good judge of person/character/ability and he can be easily won over. That's why he flip flops between yes men and getting taken advantage of.
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Very interesting post.

I actually think Gibson’s a great judge of character and human beings, we’ve rarely had a manager I’ve disliked as a person. I also think despite his flaws he is overflowing with integrity, which attracts integrity. I can’t think of another owner in football with more integrity than Steve Gibson.

When it goes wrong, I feel like something else has gone wrong. Usually transfer related.
 
There was no interest in Wilder from Burnley, they were not looking at paying any compensation due to the amount they were having to pay Dyche, so Wilder was never on their radar, I have no particular dog in this fight so it's presented as I was told by an agent with connections to both clubs.

Wilder needed to go based on results.
 
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