Maddo constantly criticising Engel

[Laughing]

Wasn’t it you who very recently said, statistics are useful, but it is how they are interpreted that is key.
People these days can roll out umpteen statistics about so many things.
All of us are guilty of Confirmation Bias at times. All of us me included.
We nowadays use often abstract stats to support our views.
Quicksilvera, Ayton Mews and others will use stats to support particular players who others watch with ongoing frustration at what they perceive as obvious weakness.
It is differing opinions formed by us all watching most if not all of the matches.
Data is fine, it can be manipulated to provide information, which is better, but insight is key.
People throw a lot of data about as though it is insight and proof of their stance.

I did say that indeedio and it's true.

However statistics are the only objective measure we have for football. Everything else is opinion.

I would suggest you go ahead and look at Engels stats on one of the stat sites and try and interpret them into engel being a bad fullback?

You will struggle to do that.

 

[Ash88]

Engel was at fault for their goal, jumped in for a tackle he was never gonna win, they subsequently won the corner and scored.

Exactly this - Engel ended up having to make a desperate last ditch block because he got beat in the first place. I don’t know why people are missing this type of thing !

Engel might have been at fault for conceding the corner. Clarke completely stood still and let Luongo do what he wanted for the goal.

The block where Engel lost the ball and recovered... Clarke sold himself and got ghosted past.

I'm not saying Clarke is rubbish, I thought he had a good game too... But all players make mistakes every game... How was Engel a liability but Clarke a potential MOtM?

 

[Ash88]

I did say that indeedio and it's true.

However statistics are the only objective measure we have for football. Everything else is opinion.

I would suggest you go ahead and look at Engels stats on one of the stat sites and try and interpret them into engel being a bad fullback?

You will struggle to do that.

95th percentile for interceptions compared to all full backs in the league is an impressive stat.

Before we get the "played more games" brigade in. He's high percentiles for a lot of defensive per 90 stats too.

I'll admit some of his passing stats are pretty bad, but literally every other stat he's good enough. Overall he's the best full back we have this season, and also better than Giles - statistically.

Probably why Carrick always puts him in the team. But what does he know?

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

95th percentile for interceptions compared to all full backs in the league is an impressive stat.

Before we get the "played more games" brigade in. He's high percentiles for a lot of defensive per 90 stats too.

I'll admit some of his passing stats are pretty bad, but literally every other stat he's good enough. Overall he's the best full back we have this season, and also better than Giles - statistically.

Probably why Carrick always puts him in the team. But what does he know?

He doesn’t always put him in the team though. He’s left him out recently. I don’t think he ever left out Ryan Giles?

I’m not saying Carrick doesn’t like Engel but just adding that he has left out of the team a few times when nobody expected it. I don’t really think he’s fully convinced by him either tbh. I think that *probably* goes for quite a few of our players though imo.

 

[Quicksilvera]

His tackle yesterday on Hutchinson was world class, some are that ingrained by their dislike for Engel they won’t change their minds.

 

[Ash88]

He doesn’t always put him in the team though. He’s left him out recently. I don’t think he ever left out Ryan Giles?

I’m not saying Carrick doesn’t like Engel but just adding that he has left out of the team a few times when nobody expected it. I don’t really think he’s fully convinced by him either tbh. I think that *probably* goes for quite a few of our players though imo.

He's played the 2nd most league games out of anyone in the squad, and the 1st most total games (league and cup). He's also played the 5th most minutes out of anyone in the squad.

Fans need to start considering facts instead of forming an opinion on a player after his first few games and keeping that opinion all season.

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

He's played the 2nd most games out of anyone in the squad, and the 5th most minutes out of anyone in the squad.

Fans need to start adding facts into their opinions on players.

I said he’s left him out of games recently, which is a fact.

He was an unused sub against Swansea and came on for the last 15mins against Sheffield Wednesday. So there’s two of the last four games he has started on the bench.

 

[Ash88]

I said he’s left him out of games recently, which is a fact.

He was an unused sub against Swansea and came on for the last 15mins against Sheffield Wednesday. So there’s two of the last four games he has started on the bench.

If being left out of the team is criteria for not being good enough, and Engels played the 2nd most games this season...

Surely we apply the same argument to the entire team and everyone has to go?

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

If being left out of the team is criteria for not being good enough, and Engels played the 2nd most games this season...

Surely we apply the same argument to the entire team and everyone has to go?

I did say he’d been left out of games recently.

I don’t think Carrick ever left Giles out of the team. I could well be wrong on that of course, last season was a long time ago.

 

[TeaCider]

Engel's allegedly been carrying a knock for a while which requires surgery, and he was rested in those games.

 

[Ash88]

I did say he’d been left out of games recently.

I don’t think Carrick ever left Giles out of the team. I could well be wrong on that of course, last season was a long time ago.

Left out of two games after playing 90 minutes for 5 in a row. It's also probably the only position where we have 3 players available.

He didn't leave Giles out - he played the most minutes for us last season - but Carrick painted Bola with the Dijksteel brush so Giles had absolutely no competition for his place in the team.

Thomas is the highest valued LB in the league and Engels keeping him out of the team.

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

Left out of two games after playing 90 minutes for 5 in a row. It's also probably the only position where we have 3 players available.

Well we didn’t have three available when he left him out.

I’m not saying Carrick doesn’t like or trust Engel, I just have a sense that he preferred Giles. Lots of us did. It doesn’t mean we’ve all got a vendetta against Engel.

 

[Ash88]

Well we didn’t have three available when he left him out.

I’m not saying Carrick doesn’t like or trust Engel, I just have a sense that he preferred Giles. Lots of us did. It doesn’t mean we’ve all got a vendetta against Engel.

I edited my last post about Giles - He played every game - but he had no competition for his place.

Too many people see exciting football as good football (Giles) and "getting the job done" as bad football (Engel).

More exciting is not always better. Ask Hull fans about Giles this season and they'll probably want a trade.

 

[Quicksilvera]

To be fair Engel is having a much better season than Giles, he’s also a lot better defensively than Giles.

 

[Uderino]

I’ve watched nearly all of the Boro games this season on iFollow.

I often prefer to select the away teams channel for their commentary. One because I’m not a fan of Drury - the amount of times he incurs the commentators course of ‘I can see Boro scoring 2 or 3 today’, then we inevitably concede!!!

And two because I like to get the opponents perspective. Mostly objective, sometimes overtly biased.

On a number of occasions, it’s been mentioned that our left back is the weak spot, namely Engel.

I agree with those supporters of Engel that he’s improved since his opener against Sheff Wed, hard not to. But on my viewing he’s not good enough yet. Not by some way and at 25 the headroom for improvement is not great.

I think a lot have been swayed by his emotional interview he did a few weeks back about fear of failure.

If we are targeting a promotion push next season, the whole left side of the first eleven needs a significant upgrade.

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

I edited my last post about Giles - He played every game - but he had no competition for his place.

Too many people see exciting football as good football (Giles) and "getting the job done" as bad football (Engel).

More exciting is not always better. Ask Hull fans about Giles this season and they'll probably want a trade.

You’re lumping too many different things in together though imo. I think Giles is better than Engel. I’ve watched them both play a full season with us. I think Giles was better with the ball and brought more to the team overall. He was very comfortable in possession and fit into our style seamlessly.

It’s not about good or exciting versus bad, it’s more nuanced than that. Going off what I’ve seen from both of them, if given a choice next season I would choose Giles.

 

[Ash88]

You’re lumping too many different things in together though imo. I think Giles is better than Engel. I’ve watched them both play a full season with us. I think Giles was better with the ball and brought more to the team overall. He was very comfortable in possession and fit into our style seamlessly.

It’s not about good or exciting versus bad, it’s more nuanced than that. Going off what I’ve seen from both of them, if given a choice next season I would choose Giles.

I agree Giles was 100% better than Engel going forward if you compare Giles last season to Engel this season. No disagreement there, but have you seen any of Giles this season?

Defensively, based on real statistics from multiple websites, Engel is better than Giles.

 

[John67]

I like Engel and he has improved. As others have mentioned, having Greenwood or Silvera in front of him who constantly loose the ball must be a nightmare. Hopefully that is something rectified next season.

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

To be fair Engel is having a much better season than Giles, he’s also a lot better defensively than Giles.

How is he having a much better season than Giles? I’m not saying he isn’t, I’m just wondering where that’s coming from.

I use WhoScored as a guide for stats and they actually have Giles’ season with us and Engel down as 6.81 across the season. Engel has four assists, Giles 11. From what I’ve seen of both of them, I’d choose Giles.

 

[TeaCider]

How is he having a much better season than Giles? I’m not saying he isn’t, I’m just wondering where that’s coming from.

I use WhoScored as a guide for stats and they actually have Giles’ season with us and Engel down as 6.81 across the season. Engel has four assists, Giles 11. From what I’ve seen of both of them, I’d choose Giles.

He's on about this season.

Giles struggled badly at Luton, and hasn't been great at Hull.