McGree’s transfer request?

[Otto42]

I think some of us older fans need to get used to the fact that most players stick around for a couple of years at most. If we are looking to bring in players for a promotion push next season it's likely we'll need to move on some who have been first team regulars.

Also, in the case of those mentioned; Forss is vying with Jones for the right sided position and we are looking to bring in a striker; McGree, we've just signed Azaz who can play a similar role and we may be committed to Greenwood or O'Brien, again similar; and Hackney will be looking to progress, and it's not going to be with us this season. In addition if players don't move on how do we get to develop or give opportunities to those we are developing?

 

[Nano]

It will be good for both longer term.


Only because of the loanees. Our playing assets at the club are betteroday than they were 12 months ago and our FFP headroom is better allowing is more scope to invest than 12 months ago. Both are significant factors for a promotion tilt. we didn't own the contracts of Giles, Archer or Ramsey and ultimately just made their parent clubs a combined 38m richer. While sinking 2-3m in loans/wages for no benefit. Take those p[layers out of the squad 12 months ago and we had a very poor squad bar Akpom.

We've effectively swapped Akpom for 6m in the bank (profit on Rogers), 6.5m due in further payments (Rogers), Rav Van Den Berg, Dieng, Engel, Bangura, Lath and some squad fillers. While retaining everyonie else bar Crooks who was 30 anyway and Bola who was dog-dirt.

The squad we own has significantly improved. As has our ability to invest.


McGree, probably, at a modest profit, Hackney I feel is unlikely this summer. But if Hackney does leave, being on such a long contract, and having so many top prem admirers, is likely to be comfortably our record sale. Bidding will start at 25m. McGree likely to go for 4 or 5. we've still got the 8m + 8m from Rogers, and of course we didn't spend all our summer FFP allowance due to being outbid on a CF at 8m. Our FFP allowance will be enormous, if we sell Hackney and McGree. north of 45m gap in our FFP. This would give us the ability to have our Ivan Toney moment, but for 3 or 4 players of that level and potential not just the one that Brentford needed.


He's susceptable to pace, but he's a decent enough midtable player, he may improve with a full pre-season. He lurches from awful to man of the match to be honest, needs a bit more consistency.


Which means he is getting better all the time.


Wow all very negative ninny. Silvera is a squad player and ok at that role, Gilbert just haven't seen enough to know. Barlaser doesn't fit our playing style, I'd sell him, probably still get a small profit though. Azaz good player still learning how we play. Lath scores a goal every other game, what more do you want for 4m? We paid 15m 7 years ago for a player that couldn't even do that. and didn't work half as hard as Lath


See above, that's beyond over the top critiscism. They failed to get a second CF, but they also didn't panic buy which I'm happy about.

You were accused of being Steve Gibson last week but I think it's more likely you are Kieron Scott.

There is no other reason anyone would have such a high opinion of our recruitment. It has been mostly shambolic. It's not just the quality of the players of the squad as a whole (picking one window and only assessing that is disingenuous when he has been responsible for all signings for 3 years now) but it is also the timing. The recruitment team have left us with a partially populated squad for two seasons in a row which has seen us make an unrecoverable start each time. It also left us this January with no striker in the squad and despite being correct that the loan signings last year were expensive and hard to replace we have still got 4 loans of players that had PL contracts last season so will be on big money and they have all been rubbish. Our retained assets are just as rubbish, if not worse, than last season but the loan players have been worse. You make it sound like Scott is working wonders on a tight budget but he isn't. Our squad is completely lacking in quality despite spending competitively and you are putting a lot of faith in the team that have delivered this squad to suddenly turn things around and put a promotion winning squad together. We're going to go into another summer needing a total rebuild (even if we don't lose a single player). There is barely a player in our squad that you wouldn't be looking to replace. We need first choice improvements in about 7 positions.

It's fair to say that the recruitment is better than it was before Scott because there is at least a structure/strategy to it but there is a long way to go before it would be classed as good. We have a squad of similar ability which is good enough for midtable but we have nobody that would get anywhere near the squad of Leicester, Southampton or Leeds. If we just try to add more projects and don't buy any quality then midtable is exactly where we will be again next year.

 

[Quicksilvera]

Is anyone bashing the club over it? It’s pretty much general knowledge he’s away at the end of the season.

“The club is flailing at the moment.
I’d be surprised if the better players aren’t eyeing an escape.
Then we will be left with king kieran and his lucky bag and database thingy.”

There’s an example.

 

[Scrug]

“The club is flailing at the moment.
I’d be surprised if the better players aren’t eyeing an escape.
Then we will be left with king kieran and his lucky bag and database thingy.”

There’s an example.

This club IS flailing at the moment. We’ve gone from playoffs to mid-table obscurity.

I get you’re Mr Positivity and you have this incessant need to project good vibes only. But I don’t see that as an attack.

I certainly don’t see the general majority bashing the club.

 

[BoroMart]

Your whole argument seems to centre around value, FFP and profit on players.

Nope it doesn't, but that cannot be ignored. You need to invest to improve, and you need FFP headroom to do that and you need value on any sale or purchase to create FFP headroom. This is the reality of modern football. It cannot be ignored.

I'm not really interested in having that discussion.

nice attempt to ignore the realities of modern football You can't escape the facts of modern football, they exist, burying your head in the sand does not solve anything

I am talking purely quality on the pitch.

OK, so lets look at the contracted players in and out from 12 month ago to today:

1) Bola replaced by Engel
Probable upgrade

2) Akpom replaced by Rogers then Azaz and 8-16m
Downgrade, but hardly a poor player

3) Daniels - Dieng
Massive upgrade

4) Robert - Glover
Slight upgrade

5) Kavanagh - Nkrumah
similar

6) IN but not directly replacing anyone (2 first choice and 4 squad players):
Lath
Jamie Jones
Rav VDB
Bangura
Gilbert
Silvera
Certainly squad depth has been added, Lath is a decent player for this level, Rav is an excellent player. Bangura looked good before injury, the other 3 have squad roles


7) OUT but not replaced (1 semi-first choice and one fringe player):
Crooks
Boyd-Munce
Crooks as a personality and occasional goal threat is a loss as a squad player, but he was never good enough to be a first team player in a promotion team, if we are honest about his level.

We have improved the permenant squad positionally at GK, LB, CB, and CF. Squad-wise we've added depth also. The only drop is at number 10 in that time but our hand was forced by Akpoms contract stance.

 

[BoroPhil]

If one more person says we have a mid-table squad not good enough for promotion I'm going to have to get the xG table out

 

[B_G]

If one more person says we have a mid-table squad not good enough for promotion I'm going to have to get the xG table out

Do it Mr Woodgate

 

[BoroPhil]

Seriously though, I don't know how you can watch us this season and not feel we have hugely underperformed and let ourselves down, even taking injuries into account. We should have a lot more points than we have, either due to poor defending or poor finishing or a combination of both. The squad Scott has put together is good enough to challenge for 4th/5th place (we can't compete on a level playing field with the top 3). If you want to point fingers, for me it's the players and maybe even the manager first.

 

[Duffman]

players that have a resale value heading into what would be the final year of their contract and clearly not wanting to sign or going to be offered a new contract are sold rather than lost for free. Been like that forever. Hasn’t McGree only got another year? If he isn’t likely to sign an extension or not going to be offered one then he will be out of the door. I want to like McGree as much as many do on here but his lack of consistency is an issue. Yes he had the long lay off but he can look so good on the ball one game then completely anonymous the next. In all likelihood I expect him to leave this summer.
Again I am not in the same camp as many on Hackney. Have seen him have real outstanding games and some absolute rubbish - more if the latter lately. I imagine he is a kid who at this stage in his career will clearly benefit from being at a club where he is surrounded by better quality players to bring him on. He won’t get that here so if I was his agent I would be looking for a move for him.i think he will go for a solid £4m offer (with the usual stupid add on’s) in the summer.
Not surprised at Forss looking elsewhere as he knows once Jones is back he will be on the bench. Needs more regular football and will get 10 goals in the Championship for a mid table side like a Blackburn or a Preston. Hope he doesn’t go but can see why he would want to.

 

[Colin Warnek]

Seriously though, I don't know how you can watch us this season and not feel we have hugely underperformed and let ourselves down, even taking injuries into account. We should have a lot more points than we have, either due to poor defending or poor finishing or a combination of both. The squad Scott has put together is good enough to challenge for 4th/5th place (we can't compete on a level playing field with the top 3). If you want to point fingers, for me it's the players and maybe even the manager first.

Stick to Football Manager.

 

[BoroMart]

Take on board Marts point that we have made FFP headroom and there's going to be a summer war chest. If we do go out and spend £30m in the summer and get some quality players in then great but at the moment the club have never indicated that they are going to spend. It's all on blind faith.

It's not really blind faith, we've always invested, Gibson has never had a problem doing it, but he is a stickler for FFP. We couldn't gamble for the last 6 years because we spent 50m under Monk and it all went belly up. We've been managing the financial problems we incurred that summer ever since.

This is the first year that we have finally got rid of Britt and Fletcher off our FFP calculations for good. That is on its own about 8.5m FFP allowance freed up. last years FFP had £17m FFP allowance tied up in those two players! That's huge, Britt in particular has been an utter disaster for the club, on and off the pitch. Premier league fee and wages on a lower champ striker who couldn't score against the decent teams and no one would take his wages on so we were lumbered with the lump

They're finally gone, we have had several big sales, it's only now that we actually have the option of splashing the cash, within FFP rules, we simply haven't been able to up until now, not without creating massive risk in years 2 and three of the contracts of those players.

 

[Laughing]

Scott had a budget of 10m and got RVB whose probably worth twice that, Roger’s who has clawed that initial spend back and could/should bring more in, Dieng who is a championship quality keeper, Engel and Bangura who look decent at this level, and Lath whose progressing, plus a few others who may or may not make it.

If he has a similar hit rate next summer but with a bigger budget we will be laughing

In one breath fans lament letting our players go and in the next complain about rubbish recruitment. Both can't be true

 

[BoroMart]

Again I am not in the same camp as many on Hackney. Have seen him have real outstanding games and some absolute rubbish - more if the latter lately.

If I've learned anything from watch Dan Barlaser in midfield recently, it's how good Hayden Hackney is. Look at how Hackney receives the ball under pressure, takes the ball on the half turn, drives with the ball and commits players, he's massively under rated by some of our fans.

 

[Bruce]

The squad we own is not better than what it was 12 months ago.

So, this is a good thing to look at. [brackets] are for an owned player whose contract runs out within 12 months of the end of the season, italics for someone who was sold/let go during the season. I'm ignoring players we had out on loan.

Last season	This season
Owned Roberts, Daniels Smith, Dijksteel Fry, Lenihan, Clarke, McNair Bola Hackney, Barlaser, [Howson], Luongo Jones, Forss, McGree, Crooks, [Akpom], Watmore Coburn	Owned Dieng, Glover, [J Jones] Smith, Dijksteel RVDB, Fry, Lenihan, Clarke, [McNair] Bangura, Engel Hackney, Barlaser, [Howson] Jones, Forss, Azaz, Gilbert, [McGree], Rogers, Crooks ELL, Coburn
Rented Steffen, Giles, Mowatt, Ramsey, Archer, Muniz	Rented O'Brien, Greenwood, Ayling, Thomas

To me it looks like the players we actually own are a slight upgrade on last season. The real loss of quality is in the loans and of course not being able to hang on to Akpom. Losing Crooks and Rogers during the season had more of an impact than Watmore and Luongo. The other big story has been the number of players missing more than half the season through injuries.

 

[BoroMart]

There is no other reason anyone would have such a high opinion of our recruitment. It has been mostly shambolic. It's not just the quality of the players of the squad as a whole (picking one window and only assessing that is disingenuous when he has been responsible for all signings for 3 years now)

errr, I refute that, I was answering the specific point about how our club had gone backwards over 12 months.....if I answered by comparing it to 36 months ago, that would be disingenuous.

The recruitment team have left us with a partially populated squad for two seasons in a row which has seen us make an unrecoverable start each time.

I agree to an extent, but, their hands were tied with FFP and they inherited an absolutely underwhelming sh!tshow with players like Britt seeing out massive contracts.

Our retained assets are just as rubbish, if not worse, than last season but the loan players have been worse.

I've already addressed this, they weren't the only players we lost of any note were Crooks who was 30 and Akpom whose value 12 months earlier was pretty much 1m at max. I agree that our loans haven't been as good this time, but I'd say that was more that we did exceptionally well 12 months ago beyond what is usually feasible and that shouldn't be held up as the standard expectation from loan players.

You make it sound like Scott is working wonders on a tight budget but he isn't.

It is a tight budget certainly was for the previous couple of years before this, and hes brought in some excellent players, they're not all gonna be great (Hoppe), but he's had more hits than misses.

Our squad is completely lacking in quality despite spending competitively and you are putting a lot of faith in the team that have delivered this squad to suddenly turn things around and put a promotion winning squad together.

I don't agree, Dieng, Rav, Lenihan, Forss, McGree Hackney, Fry is a good squad to build on. Lath, Engel, Bangura, Howson, Coburn, Azaz lots of decent depth. What we need is 4 starteers next season, and good quality ones in key positions.

 

[B_G]

If I've learned anything from watch Dan Barlaser in midfield recently, it's how good Hayden Hackney is. Look at how Hackney receives the ball under pressure, takes the ball on the half turn, drives with the ball and commits players, he's massively under rated by some of our fans.

Hackney is an outstanding talent

 

[BoroMart]

So, this is a good thing to look at. [brackets] are for an owned player whose contract runs out within 12 months of the end of the season, italics for someone who was sold/let go during the season. I'm ignoring players we had out on loan.

Last season	This season
Owned Roberts, Daniels Smith, Dijksteel Fry, Lenihan, Clarke, McNair Bola Hackney, Barlaser, [Howson], Luongo Jones, Forss, McGree, Crooks, [Akpom], Watmore Coburn	Owned Dieng, Glover, [J Jones] Smith, Dijksteel RVDB, Fry, Lenihan, Clarke, [McNair] Bangura, Engel Hackney, Barlaser, [Howson] Jones, Forss, Azaz, Gilbert, [McGree], Rogers, Crooks ELL, Coburn
Rented Steffen, Giles, Mowatt, Ramsey, Archer, Muniz	Rented O'Brien, Greenwood, Ayling, Thomas

To me it looks like the players we actually own are a slight upgrade on last season. The real loss of quality is in the loans and of course not being able to hang on to Akpom. Losing Crooks and Rogers during the season had more of an impact than Watmore and Luongo. The other big story has been the number of players missing more than half the season through injuries.

The only players to have been avaliable for most of the season are Glover, Jamie Jones, Rav, Barlaser, Gilbert. Everyone else has either been injured, on international competition or signed part way into the season. 2 backup keepers, a 19 year old defender, our worst midfielder and an untested winger. That's been a substantial and unusual problem

 

[B_G]

So, this is a good thing to look at. [brackets] are for an owned player whose contract runs out within 12 months of the end of the season, italics for someone who was sold/let go during the season. I'm ignoring players we had out on loan.

Last season	This season
Owned Roberts, Daniels Smith, Dijksteel Fry, Lenihan, Clarke, McNair Bola Hackney, Barlaser, [Howson], Luongo Jones, Forss, McGree, Crooks, [Akpom], Watmore Coburn	Owned Dieng, Glover, [J Jones] Smith, Dijksteel RVDB, Fry, Lenihan, Clarke, [McNair] Bangura, Engel Hackney, Barlaser, [Howson] Jones, Forss, Azaz, Gilbert, [McGree], Rogers, Crooks ELL, Coburn
Rented Steffen, Giles, Mowatt, Ramsey, Archer, Muniz	Rented O'Brien, Greenwood, Ayling, Thomas

To me it looks like the players we actually own are a slight upgrade on last season. The real loss of quality is in the loans and of course not being able to hang on to Akpom. Losing Crooks and Rogers during the season had more of an impact than Watmore and Luongo. The other big story has been the number of players missing more than half the season through injuries.

Which ones are actually at a level you think is good enough to be our first choice starter in their position though? I've put my opinion in bold.
There's no point in really arguing over whether Bola is better than Engel. Neither are good enough
There's no point arguing over whether Silvera is better than Watmore. Neither are good enough.

You have alluded to what the main issue is though. We can't sign players of the same quality as we can loan. Not unless we go and spend £50million and even then we need to convince those players to sign for a Championship club. (Which will be harder off the back of such a disappointing season). So we need to utilise that loan market to bring quality in. The clubs at the top of the division every season do this.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

Owned and rented.

Where do you live, Alabama in the 1800's?

 

[NYboro]

Owned and rented.

Where do you live, Alabama in the 1800's?

Could just about be Alabama today.