Mike Dean

If it is 1mm on or offside they can make that go either way by changing at what point they say the ball actually leaves the foot of the passer.
Nobody can get this bit exact so the 1mm on or offside is in the end just a guess.
 
So you think offside isn't a law of the game; that it's a guideline and it's subjective?

You are of course allowed your opinion, but opinion doesn't override facts, the fact is 1mm off is off. Being offside/onside is a goal changing decision, and in a low scoring game, a game deciding decision...it's as big a decision as you can get.
But the technology that VAR uses means there is doubt about being 1mm offside, so till that is sorted how can it call such fine margins?
 
But the technology that VAR uses means there is doubt about being 1mm offside, so till that is sorted how can it call such fine margins?
Don’t think a goal has been called off for 1mm has it? How many goals in a season are going to be based on 1mm? Usually it’s a hand, an arm or a foot, something like that.

You can’t say get rid of it based on an argument that the technology is not accurate to 1mm.

Even if it’s not it’s better than the big teams trying to bluff it through with wild celebrations and astounded expressions if the officials have the audacity to rule against them.
 
So you think offside isn't a law of the game; that it's a guideline and it's subjective?

You are of course allowed your opinion, but opinion doesn't override facts, the fact is 1mm off is off. Being offside/onside is a goal changing decision, and in a low scoring game, a game deciding decision...it's as big a decision as you can get.
Not really, but if in applying the laws to the degree that you ruin the game then what's the benefit? For me the game was significantly better pre-VAR.
 
Not really, but if in applying the laws to the degree that you ruin the game then what's the benefit? For me the game was significantly better pre-VAR.
Dont you think the VAR used properly would help the refs get the marginal decisions right but that they are too slow and cause unnecessary delays in the match? I think the refs are the problem and not the VAR.
 
If it is 1mm on or offside they can make that go either way by changing at what point they say the ball actually leaves the foot of the passer.
Nobody can get this bit exact so the 1mm on or offside is in the end just a guess.
They can, but as long as they apply the technology in the same manner, using the same processes, it is far, far better than not applying it. IT isn't perfect, but within the scope of the available technology it's as near as damn it.

It can be frustrating, I get that, but debatable offside goals are a thing of the past and I'm glad about it having seen loads of terrible offside decisions over the decades.
 
Not really, but if in applying the laws to the degree that you ruin the game then what's the benefit? For me the game was significantly better pre-VAR.
stopping goals that include breaking rules and allowing goals where an official wrongly claims someone is offside ISN'T ruining the game, it's improving the integrity of results. No one can argue that a toe in an offside position is not offside, because the rules are clear. You can make an argument that the technology has fraction of a cm in error, but you can't argue that fraction is less than the error of an assistant referee.
 
Dont you think the VAR used properly would help the refs get the marginal decisions right but that they are too slow and cause unnecessary delays in the match? I think the refs are the problem and not the VAR.
Exactly, the process for using VAR will improve and speed up. possibly near real-time adjudication of offside isn't beyond possible. Right now, I'll take the odd marginal decision being contended by sore fans over 10 terrible decisions a season that aren't even that close.
 
stopping goals that include breaking rules and allowing goals where an official wrongly claims someone is offside ISN'T ruining the game, it's improving the integrity of results. No one can argue that a toe in an offside position is not offside, because the rules are clear. You can make an argument that the technology has fraction of a cm in error, but you can't argue that fraction is less than the error of an assistant referee.
Good point 👍
 
Exactly, the process for using VAR will improve and speed up. possibly near real-time adjudication of offside isn't beyond possible. Right now, I'll take the odd marginal decision being contended by sore fans over 10 terrible decisions a season that aren't even that close.
It’s already improving, I’ve noticed managers just accept the VAR decisions more readily now without all the carrying on they used to do when it first came in. I think they have realised it can go in their favour as much as against them.

It seems to be the fans who won’t accept it when a toe is offside but then again it’s probably an emotional reaction if it’s their favourite premier league team or they’ve got a bet on or something.
 
It’s already improving, I’ve noticed managers just accept the VAR decisions more readily now without all the carrying on they used to do when it first came in. I think they have realised it can go in their favour as much as against them.

It seems to be the fans who won’t accept it when a toe is offside but then again it’s probably an emotional reaction if it’s their favourite premier league team or they’ve got a bet on or something.
Its the fantasy football culture. Many people are invested in the outcome of goals and games more than they would be.
 
Allow me to just toss in a grenade, and I'm sure many people will disagree, but... do we actually need offside?

There are 11 players on each team. Why does it matter how they all choose to arrange themselves across the playing area? Attackers attack and defenders defend. That's the game. Offside seems a bit pointless and annoying to me.
 
Allow me to just toss in a grenade, and I'm sure many people will disagree, but... do we actually need offside?

There are 11 players on each team. Why does it matter how they all choose to arrange themselves across the playing area? Attackers attack and defenders defend. That's the game. Offside seems a bit pointless and annoying to me.

Oh come on.
 
Allow me to just toss in a grenade, and I'm sure many people will disagree, but... do we actually need offside?

There are 11 players on each team. Why does it matter how they all choose to arrange themselves across the playing area? Attackers attack and defenders defend. That's the game. Offside seems a bit pointless and annoying to me.
You need to look at why it was brought in, to promote better attacking play and stop goal hanging. Teams used to leave a striker right in front of the goalkeeper and he never moved from 10 yards away. Teams would hoof the ball forward to that striker constantly. The game was very long ball. It would return that way, the game would be very stretched, it would be like Pulis vs Warnock every week.
 
You need to look at why it was brought in, to promote better attacking play and stop goal hanging. Teams used to leave a striker right in front of the goalkeeper and he never moved from 10 yards away. Teams would hoof the ball forward to that striker constantly. The game was very long ball. It would return that way, the game would be very stretched, it would be like Pulis vs Warnock every week.
I remember our school playground games where no offiside existed. We had some of the best goal hangers in the world at our school.
 
You need to look at why it was brought in, to promote better attacking play and stop goal hanging. Teams used to leave a striker right in front of the goalkeeper and he never moved from 10 yards away. Teams would hoof the ball forward to that striker constantly. The game was very long ball. It would return that way, the game would be very stretched, it would be like Pulis vs Warnock every week.

Fair enough. Perhaps I'm imagining a more noble game. It annoys me when we have a long range shot which the keeper saves, another forward puts away the rebound and the goal is disallowed for offside. Or any other scenario where several players are in the box and the one who gets the final touch just happens to be the one nearest the keeper. That seems unfair to me. But maybe I'm wrong when it comes to the bigger picture.
 
stopping goals that include breaking rules and allowing goals where an official wrongly claims someone is offside ISN'T ruining the game, it's improving the integrity of results. No one can argue that a toe in an offside position is not offside, because the rules are clear. You can make an argument that the technology has fraction of a cm in error, but you can't argue that fraction is less than the error of an assistant referee.
Laws - and the interpretation of laws - change over time though (offside, handball, back pass, tackle from behind ...), so aren't immutable. They've been changed to serve something greater, which we could characterise as the watchability and appeal of the game. So the laws exist to serve the game, not vice versa.

At the moment I don't think VAR is enhancing the watchability and appeal of the game, in fact I find it a right pain in the ****. It's the lack of flow and spontaneity for me, and the fact that we are spending more time looking and relooking at borderline decisions than celebrating the skill and excitement of the footie.

You make an interesting point though in terms of VAR becoming seamless. If that can become a reality - i.e. that the VAR decision is made and relayed to the ref in such a way that we don't even notice - then my objection to it pretty much drops away. Mike Dean's performance which prompted the OP suggests however that we are some way from that. TV seems determined to make it a song and dance- like a big gladiatorial thumbs up/down or waiting for the judges to announce summat on Bake Off - rather than something that just happens imperceptibly in the background.
 
I would just do away with off side all together.

If a team wants to leave a striker in the opposing 18 yard box then thats up to them.

I would also like to see a change to the advantage rule, along the lines of Ruby or Ice Hockey, where advantage is given, and play is allowed to carry on until the team scores, or the opposition gains control of the ball at which point the play come back to the original foul and free kick etc.
 
I would just do away with off side all together.

If a team wants to leave a striker in the opposing 18 yard box then thats up to them.

I would also like to see a change to the advantage rule, along the lines of Ruby or Ice Hockey, where advantage is given, and play is allowed to carry on until the team scores, or the opposition gains control of the ball at which point the play come back to the original foul and free kick etc.
It would be a disaster.

In 1987 season the Conference tinkered with the offside law by deeming no offsides from free kicks. All it did was reduce the game to farcical melees in the box. The rule was scrapped after one season.
 
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