Premier League v Championship

I'll never understand why some fans imply that being in the Premier League might not be a good thing. If we were in the Premier League right now we'd almost certainly have Giles, Ramsey and Archer at the club, and a lot more money in the bank.

I've always felt that as a fan surely you should want the club to be competing at the highest level possible.
 
parmoboy said:
I'll never understand why some fans imply that being in the Premier League might not be a good thing. If we were in the Premier League right now we'd almost certainly have Giles, Ramsey and Archer at the club, and a lot more money in the bank.

I've always felt that as a fan surely you should want the club to be competing at the highest level possible.
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I suppose there’s the VAR thing, I can live without it. But a season in the PL playing for draws and hoping other teams slip up wasn’t much fun in 2016/2017. I know we have to aim for something but I honestly don’t mind not being in the PL, not with the current financial structure we have anyway (where we don’t really have much money to spend on players).
 
What the travails of the promoted teams show is the ludicrous nature of parachute payments. In all likelihood two of the three will struggle all season. Yet they will receive a significant amount of income compared to the vast majority of Championship clubs next season.
 
I know it's a silly microcosm but the dodgy penalty which Luton got against us last season shows why they're struggling: that was a decision which VAR would immediately reverse in the PL and demonstrated to me that they were good for consistently edging past Championship teams, but not outclassing them.

I just hope for the sake of any promoted team that they try and adjust to life in a tougher league, unlike when we spent months sticking to plan A and hoping for wins by just doing the same thing every week... and then sacking the manager when the end was nigh.
 
Being 1 bad season away from relegation is definitely true but finances have changed so much that they should be able to guarantee they get promoted again within a year or two. Leicester's squad is far too good for the championship and they'll go straight back up, Leeds and Saints less so but Saints have been struggling for a few years and have had a huge overhaul and brought too many young players through at once. They could be very successful with the right manager.
 
HolgateCorner said:
It would be interesting to see what the life expectancy of a promoted club entering the premier league is like now compared to 30, 20, 10 years ago.

I bet it is going down despite the likes of Brentford and Brighton doing ok for a couple of seasons. They are all just one bad season away from the drop as proved recently by teams like Burnley and Leicester who we thought had got themselves bedded in.

It‘s all about money and even those with a lot of money are not finding it easy.

I think the current premier league bottom three are down already.
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Not sure if you want from the season starting in 2022 or 2023, so I'll do both.

Relegated teams and how long they'd been in the league:

1992/93 - Crystal Palace (1 season), Middlesbrough (1 season), Nottingham Forest (16 seasons).
1993/94 - Sheffield United (4 seasons, Oldham (3 seasons) and Swindon (1 season).

2002/03 - Sunderland (4 seasons), West Ham (10 seasons), West Brom (1 season).
2003/04 - Wolves (1 season), Leicester (1 season) and Leeds (14 seasons).

2012/13 - Wigan (8 seasons), Reading (1 season), QPR (2 seasons).
2013/14 - Norwich (3 seasons), Fulham (13 seasons), Cardiff (1 season).

2022/23 - Leicester (9 seasons) , Leeds (3 seasons), Southampton (11 seasons)

It's only 10 year snapshots, but it seems pretty similar. Usually a few teams that have only fairly recently arrived and the odd long established team.
Last season was unusual in having two long established teams coming down and no newly promoted teams.
 
Take away 5 or 6 teams in the premiership and if you have a bit about you then there are points to be won in the Premiership.

You just have to put the work in a as a club.

As mentioned above, Brentford and Brighton are great examples, not spending huge amounts but have instead invested in the other areas of the cub to gain an advantage - i.e. scouting, or youth set up perhaps etc.

Look at Sheff Utd yesterday and they havent really attempted to do anything different to last season, which although they got promoted, they were in the mix with a host of other teams for a long time.

Premiership survival is doable but you need to have a plan! .... We didnt under Karanka and suffered!
 
TeaCider said:
Not sure if you want from the season starting in 2022 or 2023, so I'll do both.

Relegated teams and how long they'd been in the league:

1992/93 - Crystal Palace (1 season), Middlesbrough (1 season), Nottingham Forest (16 seasons).
1993/94 - Sheffield United (4 seasons, Oldham (3 seasons) and Swindon (1 season).

2002/03 - Sunderland (4 seasons), West Ham (10 seasons), West Brom (1 season).
2003/04 - Wolves (1 season), Leicester (1 season) and Leeds (14 seasons).

2012/13 - Wigan (8 seasons), Reading (1 season), QPR (2 seasons).
2013/14 - Norwich (3 seasons), Fulham (13 seasons), Cardiff (1 season).

2022/23 - Leicester (9 seasons) , Leeds (3 seasons), Southampton (11 seasons)

It's only 10 year snapshots, but it seems pretty similar. Usually a few teams that have only fairly recently arrived and the odd long established team.
Last season was unusual in having two long established teams coming down and no newly promoted teams.
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To look at it the other way and the teams who came up each year and how they fared.

92/93 - Blackburn (4th) 7 years, Ipswich (16th) 3 years, Middlesbrough (21st) 1 year
93/94 - Newcastle (3rd) 16 years, West Ham (13th) 10 years, Swindon (22nd) 1 year

02/03 - Man City (9th) 22 years and counting, Birmingham (13th) 4 years, West Brom (19th) 1 year
03/04 - Portsmouth (13th) 8 years, Leicester (18th) 1 year, Wolves (20th) 1 year

12/13 - West Ham (10th) 12 years and counting, Southampton (14th) 11 years, Reading (19th) 1 year
13/14 - Crystal Palace (11th) 11 years and counting, Hull (16th) 2 years, Cardiff City (20th) 1 year

Across all three eras at least one newly promoted side for relegated. Perhaps unsurprisingly the team who finishes highest in the first year back can often build up a stint of a few years in the Prem. Other examples are Blackburn in 01/02 and Burnley in 16/17.

I'd argue the 02/03 and 03/04 era were hardest for newly promoted teams. It's hypothetical but I imagine that without oil money Man City might have dropped down at least once in the last years given they were an average PL club for most of the 90's/early 00's.
 
my heart is warmed, and my fragile monday morning mental health boosted, by the lack of premiershipping on this thread.....
 
TeaCider said:
Not sure if you want from the season starting in 2022 or 2023, so I'll do both.

Relegated teams and how long they'd been in the league:

1992/93 - Crystal Palace (1 season), Middlesbrough (1 season), Nottingham Forest (16 seasons).
1993/94 - Sheffield United (4 seasons, Oldham (3 seasons) and Swindon (1 season).

2002/03 - Sunderland (4 seasons), West Ham (10 seasons), West Brom (1 season).
2003/04 - Wolves (1 season), Leicester (1 season) and Leeds (14 seasons).

2012/13 - Wigan (8 seasons), Reading (1 season), QPR (2 seasons).
2013/14 - Norwich (3 seasons), Fulham (13 seasons), Cardiff (1 season).

2022/23 - Leicester (9 seasons) , Leeds (3 seasons), Southampton (11 seasons)

It's only 10 year snapshots, but it seems pretty similar. Usually a few teams that have only fairly recently arrived and the odd long established team.
Last season was unusual in having two long established teams coming down and no newly promoted teams.
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Thanks for that I must admit I’m surprised with the durability of some of the ‘smaller’ teams who have been promoted, I think it does show if you can get 2 or 3 seasons under your belt then you do have a chance of sticking at least for a decent spell.
 
In answer to the original question, money. It's a transformational sum for at least a few years. I would have no problem getting battered week in, week out if the bank balance looks like that.
 
The gap between the top 6 Prem teams and the top 6 championship teams is undoubtedly wider than ever but I think the bottom clubs aren’t that far off. This season is a bit of an anomaly but I think the difference for me is that promoted teams nowadays are seeing 14th-17th as a very successful season where they used to be able to sign half a dozen good players and have a crack at getting into the top half.
 
changingman said:
In answer to the original question, money. It's a transformational sum for at least a few years. I would have no problem getting battered week in, week out if the bank balance looks like that.
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2016-17 under karanka was soul-destroying. Packing the defence to preserve a 1-0 loss......
 
The media darlings all wanted luron up and said how theyd shock the fancy spoilt premiership footballers....thats working well isnt it. Luton were very limited side last year , won alot of games 1-0 hardly blasting champo teams away with their football.
 
GibbosEmpire said:
All 3 teams that got promoted are struggling to make any impact in the Premier League, I think if we went up we would struggle also, Everton, Nottingham Forest, Sheff United etc just show that just throwing money at transfers doesn't solve anything, the top half of the Premier League is just so far advanced it's getting silly, I think most teams just set up to not lose, or if they do lose not to get beat by too many goals.


What's the point of getting promoted if you just come back down the next season? I'd hate to get beat by 5 or 6 goals every game. I think something has to change within English football.
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It did change, and this is what it was changed for.
 
NYboro said:
2016-17 under karanka was soul-destroying. Packing the defence to preserve a 1-0 loss......
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It was, but I think that's a fairly average season for most newly promoted teams, particularly those without a long term strategy for player recruitment and development.

I'd still 100% take it over the alternative (not getting promoted).
 
UTB70 said:
The media darlings all wanted luron up and said how theyd shock the fancy spoilt premiership footballers....thats working well isnt it. Luton were very limited side last year , won alot of games 1-0 hardly blasting champo teams away with their football.
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I was very confused by the comments about Kennilworth Road being a leveler and how intimidating teams would find the atmosphere

A rusty old stadium with a small capacity isn't going to put off some of the best teams in world football.

They might well prove me wrong and stay up, and I'll immediately hold my hands up and admit to being badly wrong if they do.
 
At least if we went up we could spend all the money on the team. We have a PL ground, PL training facilities and PL crowd figures that will attract decent players.
 
I'm perfectly happy in the championship TBH.
Firstly I have no problem getting tickets. If we go up a bunch of fans more loyal than me will suddenly turn up and get tickets instead of me.
Secondly no VAR.
Thirdly we sometimes win games. Rather than being ripped apart by the plaything of an oil baron.
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
I'm perfectly happy in the championship TBH.
Firstly I have no problem getting tickets. If we go up a bunch of fans more loyal than me will suddenly turn up and get tickets instead of me.
Secondly no VAR.
Thirdly we sometimes win games. Rather than being ripped apart by the plaything of an oil baron.
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That's like saying I don't want a life saving operation.
If football were purely about the score then fair enough, but just one season in the PL would do wonders for the future of the club finances and accepting the consequential pain of losing a lot of games is something we must do.
 
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