Shocking scenes in Bristol tonight

[NoloBoro]

So you don't like the violence aspect, we all agree on that, so whats your point, we shouldn't allow protests?

No, I disagree with violence not protest.

 

[Tommy_Dickfingers]

He hasn't condoned it, stop making things up and stick to facts. Otherwise you will make yourself look really really silly

Read back and you'll see he isn't far away from it.

As are others on this thread.

You know what, I class myself as left of centre with my political thinking and I remember seeing someone say on another thread last week that there is a baying mob on here with political leanings far further towards the left who just club together and basically bully anyone else off a thread who don't whole heartedly agree with them.

Remember when the far left and far right go so far towards the further ends of a political spectrum, their ideals meet.

 

[SmallTown]

Yeah, it’s filled with apathy. The violence yesterday has nothing to do with wanting to improve the lot of the masses. Some people just want to fight. That’s what happened yesterday. I’m not referring to the peaceful protest but the scenes that followed.

I was referring specifically to your point about changes only happening through the ballot box. Which is wildly incorrect. Protests have given us so much more than voting in general elections

 

[BoroMart]

When you say “small amount of violence” you do realise it cost the capital somewhere in the region of £15million, how can that in anyway equate with small.

It was a small amount of violence, lets not pretend the city was decimated, 15mill in a city where a one bed flat in teh right part of town costs 1mill+ is pittance.

That is exactly the type of waste and nonsensical behaviour I am against.

Agreed, rioting isn't good

If your beloved protesters can do so without those side effects then I’m all in but they have proved time and time again that they cannot.

Every cause with more than 100 people will have an element of misbehaviour, it's human nature. You are either for peaceful protest or against it, but you can't create the caveat that one person being violent should paint the whole protest as violent. Just as one hooligan doesn't make all footy fans hooigans. Thatcher would have banned us all if she could. This is a similar moment in our political history.

 

[Erimus74]

It's certainly separating the wheat from the chaff. Although I don't agree with the violence, I agree with the reason for the protests. The people that have talked about free speech on here and are now focussing on the violence and defending this Bill, have shown their true colours as Tory shills.

BoroMart, I've not once said I don't agree with protestor voicing their concerns, that is not the reason for my comment, my comment was regarding thugs going out of their way to cause damage to anything in their way, including people also

 

[BoroMart]

Read back and you'll see he isn't far away from it.

I've read it all, he hasn't condoned it, or anyone else.

Remember when the far left and far right go so far towards the further ends of a political spectrum, their ideals meet.

I agree completely, and I'm soft left. That means I agree with the right to free speech and peaceful expression of protest. Giving the Home Secretary carte blanche to decide which protests to send the riot police into and start arresting peaceful protestors, effectively allowing the sitting government to decide which protests to allow, is dangerous far right/left territory, it's in the realms of fascism and communism. It's state controlled protest. It will lead to the police being used to quell the opposition and freedoms to disagree with the ruling government. It's a dangerous path to tread and not one I'm going to readily accept. It's anti-British, or certainly modern Britain.

 

[NoloBoro]

I was referring specifically to your point about changes only happening through the ballot box. Which is wildly incorrect. Protests have given us so much more than voting in general elections

Have they? How did the miners get on?For all our protest are we any better off? Do you feel safer? Do you feel that this country adequately rewards you for the effort you put in? Tell me about social mobility. Has our children’s education improved? Are our public services better funded? Have we protected our heavy industries?
A change in the way we are governed may bring about the changes we want. But protest with descends into riot will not.

 

[BoroMart]

BoroMart, I've not once said I don't agree with protestor voicing their concerns, that is not the reason for my comment, my comment was regarding thugs going out of their way to cause damage to anything in their way, including people also

and do you agree that the law already allows people to arrest such people?

 

[Erimus74]

and do you agree that the law already allows people to arrest such people?

And do you agree thats its ok to injure people, smash up vehicles, damage property in the name of a protest?

 

[LaPennaBianca]

Remember when the far left and far right go so far towards the further ends of a political spectrum, their ideals meet.

"Remember the widely ridiculed Horseshoe theory" is not the sage coda you think it is

 

[SmallTown]

Have they? How did the miners get on?For all our protest are we any better off? Do you feel safer? Do you feel that this country adequately rewards you for the effort you put in? Tell me about social mobility. Has our children’s education improved? Are our public services better funded? Have we protected our heavy industries?
A change in the way we are governed may bring about the changes we want. But protest with descends into riot will not.

Have you not heard of the suffragette movement?
The reformation?
Gandhis salt walk?
The South African day of protest?
The Boston tea party?

Yup protests are useless.

 

[BoroMart]

Have they? How did the miners get on?

not every protest wins, some do, that was his point.

For all our protest are we any better off?

Some of the protests have lead to better things, so yes

Do you feel that this country adequately rewards you for the effort you put in?

This country doesn't exist to reward it's citizens for effort. That's a naive stance

A change in the way we are governed may bring about the changes we want. But protest with descends into riot will not.

You need to do a bit more research. The Poll Tax Riots were fundamental in the removal of Thatcher. Major came in and was a more moderate conservative and the poll tax was scraped.

 

[BoroMart]

And do you agree thats its ok to injure people, smash up vehicles, damage property in the name of a protest?

So your going to answer a simple question with a question?

Debate with a bit more honesty by actually answering:

and do you agree that the law already allows people to arrest such people?

 

[Tommy_Dickfingers]

I've read it all, he hasn't condoned it, or anyone else.

I agree completely, and I'm soft left. That means I agree with the right to free speech and peaceful expression of protest. Giving the Home Secretary carte blanche to decide which protests to send the riot police into and start arresting peaceful protestors, effectively allowing the sitting government to decide which protests to allow, is dangerous far right/left territory, it's in the realms of fascism and communism. It's state controlled protest. It will lead to the police being used to quell the opposition and freedoms to disagree with the ruling government. It's a dangerous path to tread and not one I'm going to readily accept. It's anti-British, or certainly modern Britain.

Totally agree with your second reply.

Right to peacefully protest is an absolute must in any democracy.

The thugs last night have just played the ball along the 6 yard line for the Tories to smash it in to the back of the net.

 

[Erimus74]

So your going to answer a simple question with a question?

Debate with a bit more honesty by actually answering:

I will answer a simple question, People should be able to protest peacefully for what they believe is right

Now answer my question, is it OK to smash up what you think is game, cause fires, injure people all in the name of a protest?

 

[BoroMart]

The thugs last night have just played the ball along the 6 yard line for the Tories to smash it in to the back of the net.

I don't think it has, the law already existed to deal with them, remember the vigil for sarah. What this does is show the danger in not having a properly funded police force in being able to apply existing laws.

 

[BoroMart]

I will answer a simple question, People should be able to protest peacefully for what they believe is right

Now answer my question, is it OK to smash up what you think is game, cause fires, injure people all in the name of a protest?

Errr, that isn't an answer to my question which was:

and do you agree that the law already allows people to arrest such people?

very bizarre and dishonest from you, to create your own question to answer and pretend it's the one I asked.

 

[locomansimon]

Well in a nutshell what happened was this. The country was on its knees and the silent majority voted to do something about it via the ballot box. You will get your chance in 2024.

the problem is mate the turkeys will vote for Christmas again, over heard two blokes in the chippy in Whitby discussing what a fabulous job Johnson was doing and if Corbin had been in there would be bodies piled in the street, its absolutely unbelievable how brainwashed these people are !

 

[NoloBoro]

That's just wrong on every level.
Did communism fall at the ballot box? Did women get the vote via the ballot box? Did workers get protections through the ballot box?

No we fought and protested and died for those rights. How ignorant of your own past are you?

So nobody voted for those changes?

 

[BoroMart]

So nobody voted for those changes?

no The citizens didn't vote out communism, citizens didn't have a referendum for womens vote, and they didn't have one for workers protections. They put pressure on politicians, reminding them that, they work for us via protests.