TheYorkshireTerrier
Well-known member
Genuine question, why do some think we need to batten down the hatches' and 'stay safe' as a result of this protest/violence?
Shocking scenes in Bristol tonight
- Thread starter uncle_rico
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HolgateCorner
Well-known member
Very true, I really hope we don’t end up with the army on the streets or a routinely armed police force.
Chris_Boro
Well-known member
This bill allows none violent protests to be outlawed too.
Every single protest involves some kind of annoyance therefore this bill allows for the forced removal of that annoyance by decree of the police or Home Secretary.
Every single protest that involves forced removal triggers a reaction and on some occasions that turns into riots. Violence turns to violence.
The laws we have right now are sufficient to cover anyone convicted of breaking the law during riots, this bill is designed to ensure those that do protest peacefully against injustice also become criminals.
I'm old enough to remember when we as a country used to condemn other nations for introducing such laws against free expression and liberty.
Every single protest involves some kind of annoyance therefore this bill allows for the forced removal of that annoyance by decree of the police or Home Secretary.
Every single protest that involves forced removal triggers a reaction and on some occasions that turns into riots. Violence turns to violence.
The laws we have right now are sufficient to cover anyone convicted of breaking the law during riots, this bill is designed to ensure those that do protest peacefully against injustice also become criminals.
I'm old enough to remember when we as a country used to condemn other nations for introducing such laws against free expression and liberty.
I do not condone violence in any way, shape or form. There was another protest in Manchester. It hardly got a mention. The difference? One was violent, the other was peaceful. The authorities want peaceful protests, as we all do. But peaceful protests are ignored. They don't make the news. They don't get the attention that violent protests do. People question why they are protesting. They don't question a peaceful protest.
I remember once in the 90's when 200,000 pensioners marched peacefully through London in protest at the low level of the state pension. At the same time there was another, much smaller protest in a different part of London. This flared up and was reported on the news. I didn't even know that there was a pensioners protest till the following day .
I remember once in the 90's when 200,000 pensioners marched peacefully through London in protest at the low level of the state pension. At the same time there was another, much smaller protest in a different part of London. This flared up and was reported on the news. I didn't even know that there was a pensioners protest till the following day .
JonnyHistory
Well-known member
They where implemented after years of suffering and sacrifice. It wasn't a simple vote no, many people died and where prosecuted for those rights. Without protest they wouldn't have happened. If you think otherwise you're a fool.
HolgateCorner
Well-known member
I think this is the tip of the iceberg in terms of society becoming increasingly lawless.
Look at social media and some of the behaviour on it, it seems that anything goes these days. People are no longer shocked or dismayed by it.
A society lacking in structure and people willing to abide by the rules will eventually impinge upon all of our lives.
Chris_Boro
Well-known member
Future protests under this Tory regime will be an organised strict single file walk with no noise allowed around a designated route that ends with a mandatory purchase of a Starbucks coffee. No news coverage allowed as it would be annoying for people to watch.
Failure to comply will be punished by being catapulted into the North Sea or France.
Failure to comply will be punished by being catapulted into the North Sea or France.
Well, with 10,000 less soldiers in the pipeline we may well have soldiers on the streets. Unfortunately, not on duty bu that may well be where they would be sleeping. The government is renowned for using squaddies then sh1tting on them.
JonnyHistory
Well-known member
I'm sorry but what do people expect!? Its been over a decade of ever increasing wealth disparity, increasing poverty and social cuts. People have snapping points. For some that's here, others will be later we are all individuals. However, the apathy shown by some in this country towards this issue just shows how successful they have already been and will continue at conditioning people to take these liberties away piece by piece.
We don't know who started the violence yet we all condemn straight away the protestors. How many times as that happened only for it to be revealed the police triggered it with heavy handed tactics?
This bill is an abomination and no amount of window dressing of tougher sentences on other things will change that. The current laws are more than adequate to deal with violent protest this is setting us back 100 years in terms of civil freedoms.
Johnnyweetabix
Well-known member
Absolutely irrelevant to the point I was making .
viv_andersons_nana
Well-known member
I remember going on a protest against the banks in 2008, walking from London Bridge into the City. There were thousands of people on that march and it was completely peaceful until we reached the City itself, at which point the Met turned up and kettled everyone into a small square. Nobody allowed out, that's men, women and children. Nobody allowed to use the toilet or to get water. This went on for a couple of hours. Nobody allowed out. Each and every police officer had their numbers taped up. I remember asking a policeman if I could leave because I needed the toilet and his words were "no, you've got your f*cking protest, f*ck off" and raised his baton.
What was interesting was that there was now a large number of people who sort of looked like 'professional protestors', with dreadlocks and boomboxes and booze and what have you, dancing away at the front. They weren't there at the start of the protest/march and we'd been kettled into a very small space, nobody allowed in or out, so how did they get to the front? It was weird. How did they get all of that equipment through? And then you see someone smashing a window, I think they threw something heavy through a bank window. How did they get out of the kettle to do this? It was almost as if we were now on a different protest. The police stood by and did absolutely nothing. Russell Brand turned up. There were scuffles, lots of pushing and pulling.
Out of the blue, the police lifted the cordon. The kettle was over. We walked away and looked for somewhere to buy a drink. In Tesco, BBC News 24 was on the screens and they were replaying the footage of the bank window being smashed. On a loop. And that was the image of the protest that went out to the rest of the country. The protest itself and the reason thousands and thousands of people were out protesting peacefully was completely forgotten. Or, to be frank, hidden away behind footage of 'rioters' and 'thugs'. That was the day the Met killed Ian Tomlinson and tried to cover it up, if you remember.
This is when I realised I'd been a very naive young lad. You realise that this is how protests work. People go out and march peacefully. A small group of people arrive much later on and cause trouble. I'm not saying the police are 'in' on that but given my previous experiences I wouldn't be surprised. We know they have a lot of history for that sort of thing anyway, don't they, the undercover police officers. The 'professionals' pitch up, cause some chew, people and police officers get injured, fires lit, stuff gets chucked about and smashed up. There's your news footage. Nobody is talking about the reason people were out protesting any more. Politicians and news people discuss the violence, not the hours and hours and peaceful protests of earlier on or the issues behind those protests.
I do not condone violence against police officers or anyone else. I've seen some pretty dodgy policing in my time, and been on the end of it. But I think many of the violent episodes at the end of protests are essentially stage managed. That is the experience I have of them. There will always be a tiny number of people who start trouble but you should never, ever let governments and politicians get away with hiding behind the actions of those people. That is exactly what they want, which is why I think it's possible that some of the people involved in the violence are essentially there to agitate on behalf of the government and the state.
I understand why people are out protesting now and why they will be again. The welfare state and social fabric of the country has essentially been dismantled over the course of more than a decade of austerity and Conservative rule. The politics have shifted to the right, there will be a pushback against that. It is natural. As has been said already, this is what happens when the Tories are in office. And you can wang on about Labour and Labour politicians all you like, the bottom line is that they haven't been in office for over a decade.
What was interesting was that there was now a large number of people who sort of looked like 'professional protestors', with dreadlocks and boomboxes and booze and what have you, dancing away at the front. They weren't there at the start of the protest/march and we'd been kettled into a very small space, nobody allowed in or out, so how did they get to the front? It was weird. How did they get all of that equipment through? And then you see someone smashing a window, I think they threw something heavy through a bank window. How did they get out of the kettle to do this? It was almost as if we were now on a different protest. The police stood by and did absolutely nothing. Russell Brand turned up. There were scuffles, lots of pushing and pulling.
Out of the blue, the police lifted the cordon. The kettle was over. We walked away and looked for somewhere to buy a drink. In Tesco, BBC News 24 was on the screens and they were replaying the footage of the bank window being smashed. On a loop. And that was the image of the protest that went out to the rest of the country. The protest itself and the reason thousands and thousands of people were out protesting peacefully was completely forgotten. Or, to be frank, hidden away behind footage of 'rioters' and 'thugs'. That was the day the Met killed Ian Tomlinson and tried to cover it up, if you remember.
This is when I realised I'd been a very naive young lad. You realise that this is how protests work. People go out and march peacefully. A small group of people arrive much later on and cause trouble. I'm not saying the police are 'in' on that but given my previous experiences I wouldn't be surprised. We know they have a lot of history for that sort of thing anyway, don't they, the undercover police officers. The 'professionals' pitch up, cause some chew, people and police officers get injured, fires lit, stuff gets chucked about and smashed up. There's your news footage. Nobody is talking about the reason people were out protesting any more. Politicians and news people discuss the violence, not the hours and hours and peaceful protests of earlier on or the issues behind those protests.
I do not condone violence against police officers or anyone else. I've seen some pretty dodgy policing in my time, and been on the end of it. But I think many of the violent episodes at the end of protests are essentially stage managed. That is the experience I have of them. There will always be a tiny number of people who start trouble but you should never, ever let governments and politicians get away with hiding behind the actions of those people. That is exactly what they want, which is why I think it's possible that some of the people involved in the violence are essentially there to agitate on behalf of the government and the state.
I understand why people are out protesting now and why they will be again. The welfare state and social fabric of the country has essentially been dismantled over the course of more than a decade of austerity and Conservative rule. The politics have shifted to the right, there will be a pushback against that. It is natural. As has been said already, this is what happens when the Tories are in office. And you can wang on about Labour and Labour politicians all you like, the bottom line is that they haven't been in office for over a decade.
BoroMart
Well-known member
we won't end up with the army on the streets, they're being cut by 10,000 soldiers, we don't have enough to put thousands of them on the streets.
Alvez_48
Well-known member
It's not that people don't care mate.
It's been brewing for a long time for sure as pointed out by my good friend @BoroMart since probably 2008 at least.
On top of that people have had everything taken from them the past 12 months.
People are at the end of their tethers. A few of us could see it coming, a weak opposition, a corrupt government and then you get the match paper that is this particular legislation.
The lockdown 'bill' is only just starting to come due. The cost I can't even begin to think about.
Not to mention you have huge mixes of people at these events and sadly some of them literally will just want to see the world burn.
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Funky_Chicken
Well-known member
We do know who started it - the riot police turned up an started pepper spraying and battening people, before they appeared it was a peaceful protest
“The best way to control the opposition is lead it ourselves” (Vladimir Lenin)
Laughing
Well-known member
It is very relevant, that you don't see the relevance is neither here nor there. One was responsible for the other. If you don't think that mismanagement of the pandemic had no bearing on protest marches then fine, it doesn't make it true though.
jam69
Well-known member
I don't, and as it turns out I was right. And by his own admission they are not all the same
HolgateCorner
Well-known member
I think the point is that all that really does not matter any more.
Like Johnson being at 45% in the you gov poll or the Tories hoping to win Hartlepool.
Its gone beyond all that, the rabbit is out of the box.