So Compulsory Vaccinations are Happening Then…..

motownjunk said:
You were lucky. With out the vaccine you will catch it again, every 16 months if not vaccinated is the suggestion,and might not be so lucky next time. The vaccination is safe why not get it.
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1) I certainly was not lucky
2) Those who are vaccinated have caught COVID numerous times than your quoted 16 months. A family member currently has COVID right now even after having their booster.
3) Are you happy to face responsibility/prison if I am maimed or killed by taking the vaccine?
4) Are you happy to have three injections every year from now on until the rest of your days?
5) What criteria must be fulfilled to get back to pre-March 2020 life in your opinion?
 
DanJC said:
1) I certainly was not lucky
2) Those who are vaccinated have caught COVID numerous times than your quoted 16 months. A family member currently has COVID right now even after having their booster.
3) Are you happy to face responsibility/prison if I am maimed or killed by taking the vaccine?
4) Are you happy to have three injections every year from now on until the rest of your days?
5) What criteria must be fulfilled to get back to pre-March 2020 life in your opinion?
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What is the problem with injections, some people have them daily for life?

An injection shouldn't be a big issue.
 
DanJC said:
1) I certainly was not lucky
2) Those who are vaccinated have caught COVID numerous times than your quoted 16 months. A family member currently has COVID right now even after having their booster.
3) Are you happy to face responsibility/prison if I am maimed or killed by taking the vaccine?
4) Are you happy to have three injections every year from now on until the rest of your days?
5) What criteria must be fulfilled to get back to pre-March 2020 life in your opinion?
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You were lucky not sure of age, but the chance of death being maimed or hospitalisation is a lot higher than you think. No one has every said being vaccinated is a perfect suit of Armour but you lower your chances of catching it and spreading it. You are many many times more likely to be killed or maimed by covid than any of the viruses. Will take however many jabs I need. To get back to pre March 2020 deaths need to get covid deaths down to typical flu death numbers maybe a 100 a week, not more than a 100 day like we have now.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
What is the problem with injections, some people have them daily for life?

An injection shouldn't be a big issue.
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They shouldn't be your right. That's not really what Dan is saying though. In terms of protecting others the vaccine is much less effective than we would have hoped. It gives personal protection but doesn't protect others at any where near the levels we expected.

The younger you are the less risk you are at from the virus. There comes a point where the risk of vaccination is greater than the personal protection.

Why the vilification of the unvaccinated when there are other measures that could be taken that are non invasive.

My youngest is 10 and she would not be getting the vaccine of it was released for 10 year olds. My first responsability is to my daughter.
 
motownjunk said:
You were lucky not sure of age, but the chance of death being maimed or hospitalisation is a lot higher than you think. No one has every said being vaccinated is a perfect suit of Armour but you lower your chances of catching it and spreading it. You are many many times more likely to be killed or maimed by covid than any of the viruses. Will take however many jabs I need. To get back to pre March 2020 deaths need to get covid deaths down to typical flu death numbers maybe a 100 a week, not more than a 100 day like we have now.
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Why are Gibraltar cancelling Christmas and reintroducing distancing measures then? If the vaccinated are lowered from catching and spreading it [just simply not true by the way] >99% Population Vaccinated. Not including the % of those who have taken up the Booster.
 
DanJC said:
Why are Gibraltar cancelling Christmas and reintroducing distancing measures then? If the vaccinated are lowered from catching and spreading it [just simply not true by the way] >99% Population Vaccinated. Not including the % of those who have taken up the Booster.
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Gibraltar have 113% vaccination rate. Any guess why that is? A lot of people that work in Gibraltar live over the border in Spain so I an guessing a lot of people got their jabs in Gibraltar rather than Spain.
 
Laughing said:
They shouldn't be your right. That's not really what Dan is saying though. In terms of protecting others the vaccine is much less effective than we would have hoped. It gives personal protection but doesn't protect others at any where near the levels we expected.

The younger you are the less risk you are at from the virus. There comes a point where the risk of vaccination is greater than the personal protection.

Why the vilification of the unvaccinated when there are other measures that could be taken that are non invasive.

My youngest is 10 and she would not be getting the vaccine of it was released for 10 year olds. My first responsability is to my daughter.
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You are right theoretically about there being a point where any of the vaccines are more dangerous than the virus. No one has given the vaccine to anyone under 5 as of yet but even in 5 year Olds there is a safety benefit of having the vaccine. Obviously the benefit isn't so clear cut the younger people are. Anyone over 14 the benefit is clear cut is multiple times safer to have the virus than not.
 
Laughing said:
They shouldn't be your right. That's not really what Dan is saying though. In terms of protecting others the vaccine is much less effective than we would have hoped. It gives personal protection but doesn't protect others at any where near the levels we expected.

The younger you are the less risk you are at from the virus. There comes a point where the risk of vaccination is greater than the personal protection.

Why the vilification of the unvaccinated when there are other measures that could be taken that are non invasive.

My youngest is 10 and she would not be getting the vaccine of it was released for 10 year olds. My first responsability is to my daughter.
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Thank you @Laughing. I'm just perplexed that so many seem to double down on covid injections and refuse to admit they are not the key to returning to normality as we were promised.

Public Perception​
Jan 2020​
Present Day​
How many injections required for a return to normal?​
Two​
Two to Three per Annum (Immunity on Average Wanes every Six months and depending on age)
Does it prevent transmission?​
Yes​
No​

If January 2020 proved correct, I'd admit thats a solid vaccine. But to what we know to this present day? Not a chance.
 
motownjunk said:
You are right theoretically about there being a point where any of the vaccines are more dangerous than the virus. No one has given the vaccine to anyone under 5 as of yet but even in 5 year Olds there is a safety benefit of having the vaccine. Obviously the benefit isn't so clear cut the younger people are. Anyone over 14 the benefit is clear cut is multiple times safer to have the virus than not.
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I wouldn't argue with that as I haven't had to look at the numbers. You may well be right and if the vaccine was released for 10 year olds I would do my due diligence at that point.

The point I was making was that is ok to make a decision based on personal risk and ignore the greater good.

I was vaccinated because it protects me, first and foremost. That it reduces, albeit, slightly the risk of those I come in to contact with is a pleasant benefit, but not the driving force behind my decision.
 
motownjunk said:
Gibraltar have 113% vaccination rate. Any guess why that is? A lot of people that work in Gibraltar live over the border in Spain so I an guessing a lot of people got their jabs in Gibraltar rather than Spain.
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Please answer my question of why Gibraltar are still cancelling Christmas and reintroducing restrictive measures with a >99% vaccination rate?. They have had 98 deaths since this began and five covid deaths in the last 8 months.

Using your earlier provided barometer of returning back to pre-2020, shouldn't they be staying back to normal?
 
DanJC said:
Please answer my question of why Gibraltar are still cancelling Christmas and reintroducing restrictive measures with a >99% vaccination rate?. They have had 98 deaths since this began and five covid deaths in the last 8 months.

Using your earlier provided barometer of returning back to pre-2020, shouldn't they be staying back to normal?
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Firstly gibraltar has a population of about 30000 people 98 people is quite a lot. Gibraltar isn't even canceling xmas it's bringing in a few restrictions so xmas isn't cancelled.
 
motownjunk said:
Firstly gibraltar has a population of about 30000 people 98 people is quite a lot. Gibraltar isn't even canceling xmas it's bringing in a few restrictions so xmas isn't cancelled.
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So five covid deaths in eight months is justifiable to bring in restrictions?
 
Am I alone in thinking that too many people look at vaccinations as supporting a "team" and perform some mental gymnastics to continue beratting the unvaccinated? it's probably true for the "other team" too but the other team are not trying to demand any particular behaviours.
 
Laughing said:
Am I alone in thinking that too many people look at vaccinations as supporting a "team" and perform some mental gymnastics to continue beratting the unvaccinated? it's probably true for the "other team" too but the other team are not trying to demand any particular behaviours.
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Yep, @Corcaigh_the_Cat willingly fell into this behaviour when they tried to make out I was slating all form of injections, which is clearly not the case at all. It shouldn't really even have to be explained at this stage but some just use it as a stick to beat others with when stuck for a retort, that or a 'drama queen'.
 
Laughing said:
Am I alone in thinking that too many people look at vaccinations as supporting a "team" and perform some mental gymnastics to continue beratting the unvaccinated? it's probably true for the "other team" too but the other team are not trying to demand any particular behaviours.
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I don't think so. It's more the mental gymnastics required to not see the vaccines for what they. Either choosing carefully info that suits their narrative or just believing about BS.
 
motownjunk said:
I don't think so. It's more the mental gymnastics required to not see the vaccines for what they. Either choosing carefully info that suits their narrative or just believing about BS.
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Please refer to my above table on not seeing the covid vaccine for what it is.
 
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