Southgate - England's best manager?

BoroMart said:
You do realise that Phil Foden was once coached at grassroots, as an U6, at some point he entered manchesters youth system, and had the same messages that he had at grassroots. Then he joined the academy and had the same messages as at youth, then on to city first team and eventually England and of course the detail is more, but it's aligned to what he was taught 10 years earlier at grassroots.

It's about how they play, as much about how they are taught, creating players that are taught to and play the same way. It's how Ajax flourished, and the french national side. It's about consistent messaging and approaches.

It might frighten you, but that doesn't make it worthless.
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There have always been examples of players coming from grass roots football, if you're looking for England players we have some locally, one almost made it to the world cup final in 1990.

Just because there's a lot of fuss made about the 'England DNA', which you've already dismissed as being common to other nationalities and clubs, hence not really our DNA at all, it doesn't mean that you have to agree with it.

'frighten you'

Wow!
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
Just because there's a lot of fuss made about the 'England DNA', which you've already dismissed as being common to other nationalities and clubs, hence not really our DNA at all, it doesn't mean that you have to agree with it.
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It's about professionalising the game and making it right through to grass roots. The reason France came storming through after years of failure was they professionalised training, the germans have always been strong because they have more grassroots qualified coaches than any other country.

We've taken it a step further and are now seeing the benefits. It isn't coincidence that when we actually started to define a book of knowledge and framework that we get better results.

Yes, frighten you, you freely admit to not having read any of it, yet you are wildly dismissive of it. Looks to me like you are scared of the change in our game, Fear Of Change is something I see in my job every day. Adopting standards and frameworks, it works in every other industry so why not football? England DNA isn't the same as french or german or Ajax, but it's the same in that we're actually thinking strategically now.
 
zorro_mfc said:
Not a chance, team maybe but not squad.

as I say look at the players we haven’t currently got in the squad who could play - vardy Maddison Greenwood etc to name 3
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Fowler, Wright, Le Tissier, Les Ferdinand, Merson, Pallister, Beckham. All players with incredible quality available in 96 but not in the first team. I'd take every single one of them over James Maddison. 🙄
I'm not really sure why you're absolutely loath to give any credit to a bloke who has taken us from an absolute embarrassment of a national team (2008-2016 anyone?) to a team England can be genuinely proud of.
 
The Card Cheat said:
Fowler, Wright, Le Tissier, Les Ferdinand, Merson, Pallister, Beckham. All players with incredible quality available in 96 but not in the first team. I'd take every single one of them over James Maddison. 🙄
I'm not really sure why you're absolutely loath to give any credit to a bloke who has taken us from an absolute embarrassment of a national team (2008-2016 anyone?) to a team England can be genuinely proud of.
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You might be forgiven for thinking its an agenda some have.

I would have thought England fans would just sit back and enjoy the ride rather than look to strip Southgate of any credit, wouldn't you.
 
Laughing said:
You might be forgiven for thinking its an agenda some have.
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It is, even if unspoken. He is victim of the working class suspicion of intellectuals. This is something that has been stoked in the last decade, 'bleeding heart liberals', 'London elites', 'experts'. He is there purely on professionalism, not personality and playing to the crowds for laughs.

Southgate is the embodiment of what working class people have been distracted into hating. Eloquent, empathic, intelligent, articulate, and engaged. Working class football fans don't know why they hate him, it isn't for his on field results, it isn't for a style of play which is a million times better than the long ball crap we've played for years, it's purely about his personality matching what people have been told to despise.

The day he leaves England is the day we take a massive step backwards
 
Konrad_the_Barbarian said:
He hasn't won anything so no, he is not Englands best manager.

He's getting close but I fear he will always bottle it at the final hurdle by overthinking. Unfortunately I thing Gareth may fall into the Tim Henman / Devon Loch / Jimmy White category.

I would love to be proved wrong but if you can't get an in form team, with a great bench, leading 1- 0, at home over the line to win the EURO final then there's something lacking.
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Or you're just playing against another top side who have much more experience.
 
Nero said:
The World Cup Semi-Final and Euro Final both followed very similar patterns that indicate a lack of belief from the players. That's not bring critical, as it's a high pressure situation and England don't have the collective memory of playing many of those games.

The only possible difference is the likes of Foden didn't play either of those games. He's quickly becoming England's best player and might be the one to win a really big game.
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I don't think it was down to a lack of belief. I think the one area we're lacking is someone in the centre of midfield who can really dominate a game and take the sting out of it. Both Croatia and Italy managed to get on top in the centre of midfield. It's fine margins though, i mean if Kane had squared for Sterling for a tap in at 1-0 against Croatia we'd have probably got through. Hopefully Bellingham can become that midfield all rounder.
 
Nowhere near.
To get the best out of the players you need to have their respect.
What are Southgate's Managerial achievements?
Relegation.
 
wilkos_perm said:
I don't think it was down to a lack of belief. I think the one area we're lacking is someone in the centre of midfield who can really dominate a game and take the sting out of it. Both Croatia and Italy managed to get on top in the centre of midfield. It's fine margins though, i mean if Kane had squared for Sterling for a tap in at 1-0 against Croatia we'd have probably got through. Hopefully Bellingham can become that midfield all rounder.
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My feelings exactly, we had an absolute top flight novice and technically limited midfielder in Philips, he was integral to our success in going so far, but I think a better ball player like Bellingham who matches Phillips work rate and athleticism will take us forward a step.

For all the talk of how we had an amazing team, individually how many of those players are the best in the world in their positions, or even the best in europe? Few, if any and some of the back up players are way behind that quality.
 
zzzzz said:
Nowhere near.
To get the best out of the players you need to have their respect.
What are Southgate's Managerial achievements?
Relegation.
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But your question was does he have the players respect, and he clearly does. That is unquestionable, I mean which players don't respect him?

As a manager he does have the most competititve wins, most semi-final appearances and most goals and most clean sheets of any england manager. That might not be trophies but it's a sign of success in the role.
 
I dont know what's changed over time for me, but as good as some of these players are, my interest and enthusiasm for international football and specifically England is practically non-existent. In fact if England were barred from international football, it wouldn't bother me one bit.
 
Glover_elbow said:
I dont know what's changed over time for me, but as good as some of these players are, my interest and enthusiasm for international football and specifically England is practically non-existent. In fact if England were barred from international football, it wouldn't bother me one bit.
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I am the exact opposite. I've not felt this engaged with an England team in over 20 years. The manager and players are humble and hungry for success and it's been an absolute pleasure to watch the evolution of the team under Southgate and the progress of various individuals who have yet to come close to reaching their peak. The next 10 years will be a golden period in the history of the England national football team.
 
Glover_elbow said:
I dont know what's changed over time for me, but as good as some of these players are, my interest and enthusiasm for international football and specifically England is practically non-existent. In fact if England were barred from international football, it wouldn't bother me one bit.
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I'd just like to make a conscious effort to put down in words my complete indifference to this subject, which is why I've taken the time and effort to say I'm not interested in something which I don't care about....
Did I mention I'm not really interested?
Oh the irony.
 
BoroMart said:
It is, even if unspoken. He is victim of the working class suspicion of intellectuals. This is something that has been stoked in the last decade, 'bleeding heart liberals', 'London elites', 'experts'. He is there purely on professionalism, not personality and playing to the crowds for laughs.

Southgate is the embodiment of what working class people have been distracted into hating. Eloquent, empathic, intelligent, articulate, and engaged. Working class football fans don't know why they hate him, it isn't for his on field results, it isn't for a style of play which is a million times better than the long ball crap we've played for years, it's purely about his personality matching what people have been told to despise.

The day he leaves England is the day we take a massive step backwards
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Never thought of it in those terms Mart. I thought, more likely, they just didn't like him because he managed boro and ultimately failed.

He isn't your working class manager. educated and articulate. Perhaps some people don't like that, I dunno.
 
Laughing said:
I thought, more likely, they just didn't like him because he managed boro and ultimately failed.
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I don't think most people care that he managed us, I mean people clambered for Keegan to take charge and were behind him despite winning nothing. I distinctly remember shuddering at the thought of him managing at the very tactical international level.
 
zzzzz said:
Nowhere near.
To get the best out of the players you need to have their respect.
What are Southgate's Managerial achievements?
Relegation.
Click to expand...
He got to a world cup semi final and a euros final as a manager.

So he has the most success for an England manager in the last 50 years.

And all the players respect him massively because he treats them like people and his methods get results.
 
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