Starmer drops another pledge

I'm no fan of Starmer, and I may be totally wrong (time will tell) but it looks like Labour are trying to get as many people on board as possible doing "whatever". Similar to 1997.

Issue they will have is this continuing reversal of policies will be be relentlessly attacked by the Tories and RWM making Labour look like an untrustworthy party who can't be..... trusted. The brain-dead electorate will slavishly fall for it and what should be an absolute landslide election victory becomes......🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️
 
sherlock1969 said:
This time to remove charitable status from private schools.

What is the point of him?

Been Labour all my life but can't believe a word this fella says.

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That was called out months ago - Keep up.

The decision was the best of both worlds. End private schools exemption from VAT on anything fees, buildings work and supplies and it removes the tortuous parliamentary time that would be need to unpick private schools alone from charities laws.

So Private schools costs to folk who send kids there rises and the VAT goes to Govt plus the advantage on building works etc being VAT exempt vs ordinary schools who pay it dissappears.

Name the remaining "Charitable" tax breaks benefit beyond income/corporation tax on profit/surplus?

Its a good start and the reduction in parliamentary time needed to enact it can be better spent on other areas and there are plenty of those to be getting on with.

But you carry on thrashing around finding reasons to keep the Tories in Power
 
Decent_Left said:
That was called out months ago - Keep up.

The decision was the best of both worlds. End private schools exemption from VAT on anything fees, buildings work and supplies and it removes the tortuous parliamentary time that would be need to unpick private schools alone from charities laws.

So Private schools costs to folk who send kids there rises and the VAT goes to Govt plus the advantage on building works etc being VAT exempt vs ordinary schools who pay it dissappears.

Name the remaining "Charitable" tax breaks benefit beyond income/corporation tax on profit/surplus?

Its a good start and the reduction in parliamentary time needed to enact it can be better spent on other areas and there are plenty of those to be getting on with.

But you carry on thrashing around finding reasons to keep the Tories in Power
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They’ll still get business rates relief, they’ll still be entitled to gift aid on donations and they’ll still be exempt from inheritance tax on any gifts made on death. That’s too much and not right - they aren’t charities.

You’re missing the point anyway. If this half way measure is what is needed, why repeatedly make the pledge?

It’s just another example of dishonesty and why he can’t be believed on anything.
 
sherlock1969 said:
They’ll still get business rates relief, they’ll still be entitled to gift aid on donations and they’ll still be exempt from inheritance tax on any gifts made on death. That’s too much and not right - they aren’t charities.

You’re missing the point anyway. If this half way measure is what is needed, why repeatedly make the pledge?

It’s just another example of dishonesty and why he can’t be believed on anything.
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Ordinary Schools get all of Business rates relief and gift aid on charitable donations as well so it levels the playing field & I have no idea what you mean by IHT exemption as NPF document has IHT reform as part of policy so am pretty sure if there is some Private School loophole it will be closed in that policy

Am trying to find any public utterence on Private schools policy since 2019 that goes beyond Charitable Tax status and as far as I can see The VAT issue is the biggie. So if you can supply anything to the contrary let us know.

As for Gift aid there is a personal limit up to a couple of thousand as far as I am aware which is combined with ALL gift aid donations its not a limit per charitable cause.

So as far as I have followed the argument Labour by being more precise about VAT for example is actually putting flesh on the bone rather than cheerleading on a slogan.

Starmer is turning out to be more brutal than I thought he would, for me personally as a passenger on the Nandy bus I'm still furious about his treatment of her and will tell him to his face even though that is simply politics. but to carry on about him being dishonest and not believable is nonsense.
 
If their income is VATable does that mean they will be able to claim the VAT back on the construction costs of their new rowing lakes?
 
newusername said:
If their income is VATable does that mean they will be able to claim the VAT back on the construction costs of their new rowing lakes?
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My latest understanding is that no, when it comes to VAT they will be subject to the same VAT rules as a normal school. If I'm wrong on that then a lot of members understanding is incorrect and there will be hell on as the whole point of the Private schools policy was to remove any (exc profit/surplus issues) advantage over normal schools.
 
sherlock1969 said:
Partially correct. Private schools get huge tax breaks as well. Removing charitable status would remove those tax breaks too.

This compromise approach of leaving charitable status unchanged but charging VAT impacts parents who pay the fees, but leaves all of the school’s tax breaks untouched.
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Huge tax breaks?

The main tax break private schools get is that they are not liable to corporation tax, so long as the profit is reinvested in the school. Property tax is discounted, but private schools pay more than state schools. And of course the money saved on property taxes appears as profit, and therefore is reinvested.
 
I can't defend alot of what the Labour party is doing, but there was an article in the guardian last week that explains their behaviour.

They are basing their run up to the election on avoiding what happened in Norway and New Zealand where parties lost huge poll leads in elections after making big left wing policy announcements.

The feeling is that it made the middle classes/centrists panic - Labour is more likely to win by not making big announcements.

You have to hope that they can gradually turn left in power. Its how the conservatives did it - got in 2010 on a soft tory centrist platform then turned right when in power.
 
Watering it down to the smallest possible change to private schools tax arrangements makes it nice and easy for the next tory government (in 5 years? 10?) to reverse it. The last thing Starmer wants to do is make any big lasting changes. Thats if whats left of the policy gets pushed through at all. Every chance he waters it down even more or drops it altogether next time he feels like signalling how "ambitious" he is.
 
Borotommo said:
That's an horrendous view
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I don’t mean it tommo (poor attempt from me at being a bit sarcky) - these threads always end up with some belllowing “I’ll never vote for Starmer”

I would - the smallest of movement further left than we have now is an start for me.
 
Can anyone name one pledge Starmer made to get the leadership that he still says he'll do?

I'd still prefer Labour to this horror show of a government of course, but anyone who thinks Starmer has been straight with the public or consistent in his expressed views is quite simply bonkers.
 
1finny said:
I don’t mean it tommo (poor attempt from me at being a bit sarcky) - these threads always end up with some belllowing “I’ll never vote for Starmer”

I would - the smallest of movement further left than we have now is an start for me.
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And therein lies one of the problems.

A move left to what we have now is just back to more traditional conservative policies, which is why the view that Starmer is more of a Tory than traditional Labour rings so true.

For the socialist minded among us, there is now no useful vote.
 
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