Streets ahead? What I’ve learned from my year with an electric car

The_Lizards_Jumpers

Well-known member
I think a better way of putting it is for your average driver, range anxiety shouldn't be an issue. If you are a someone who does 400 miles in a day, twice a week, and often in remote areas, then maybe, but for most people who travel more than 100miles in a day, and charge at home, then it shouldn't be an issue

Big difference between "shouldn't" and what the self proclaimed voice of the EV industry is claiming though, isn't there?

Range may well not be an issue, but his claims that no one has ever experienced anxiety about whether they'll make it somewhere or not because of their battery level, is what I object to. I'm thinking of getting an EV as my next car, but his dismissing of every argument or situation someone comes up with, as to why they may not want a EV, is tiresome at best.
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
Big difference between "shouldn't" and what the self proclaimed voice of the EV industry is claiming though, isn't there?

Range may well not be an issue, but his claims that no one has ever experienced anxiety about whether they'll make it somewhere or not because of their battery level, is what I object to. I'm thinking of getting an EV as my next car, but his dismissing of every argument or situation someone comes up with, as to why they may not want a EV, is tiresome at best.
My advice to anyone having had one for 10 months is, the only way I would dismiss one is a) if I had a job where twice a week I was doing 350-400 mile journeys, b) if I didn't have a charge point at home, c) if the initial cost meant that I could only afford the smallest range cars. Other than that if you can afford it, can charge at home, and you're not a travelling salesman, then it's a great option
 

Nano

Well-known member
It really isn't an issue. You think it's an issue. That's the difference.

You charge at your destination: show me a championship side that doesn't have EV charging infrastructure within walking distance.

Also, these aren't regular journeys, as well you know. SO yes, in this country range isn't an issue. You can't say it is then make up fictional scenarios to "prove" it. I've been up and down the country and even to other countries in an EV and range simply isn't an issue. This is what I'm trying to get across.

These arguments always have the same circularity. a FUD will complain about range, and I'll ask for their scenario. They'll then keep coming up with less likely and more far fetched scenarios until they "prove" range is an issue. But, real world, with normal usage, in this country, Range isn't an issue

In fairness even if championship clubs did have a charger within walking distance I'd bet they wouldn't have 10 or more so that is no good if 10 away fans take their EV and expect to be able to make it home without stopping. 10 isn't exactly a huge number either, it's more likely as EVs become more ubiquitous that the number of people in that situation is more common and it becomes problematic. As I said previously, stopping on long journeys isn't an issue because you stop anyway, it's the 100 mile there and back journeys that people do make regularly that means you have to add a 30 minute stop into your day which is a massive inconvenience.

Anybody that says range anxiety isn't a thing definitely doesn't have children. A stop is much more problematic with kids in the car than without. I had a journey that was about 170m and I had 190m of range remaining when I set off (because I had to use my car that day before setting off so I had no chance to recharge more). About 100m to go it went to 100m remaining and then the range was depeting faster than the remaining distance. It was late and I really didn't want to stop. I spent the entire journey watching the 2 numbers. Thankfully, the 1st half of the journey was uphill and the 2nd was downhill which is why the range was depleting faster than the remaining distance. Got home with about 10m of range remaining. I was definitely anxious the entire way home. Wouldn't have been a disaster having to stop but there is no comparison between a 2 minute petrol stop and a 15+ minute charging stop if it means the kids waking up.
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
Big difference between "shouldn't" and what the self proclaimed voice of the EV industry is claiming though, isn't there?

Range may well not be an issue, but his claims that no one has ever experienced anxiety about whether they'll make it somewhere or not because of their battery level, is what I object to. I'm thinking of getting an EV as my next car, but his dismissing of every argument or situation someone comes up with, as to why they may not want a EV, is tiresome at best.
I'm not dismissing any argument. Just correcting common myths.
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
In fairness even if championship clubs did have a charger within walking distance I'd bet they wouldn't have 10 or more so that is no good if 10 away fans take their EV and expect to be able to make it home without stopping. 10 isn't exactly a huge number either, it's more likely as EVs become more ubiquitous that the number of people in that situation is more common and it becomes problematic. As I said previously, stopping on long journeys isn't an issue because you stop anyway, it's the 100 mile there and back journeys that people do make regularly that means you have to add a 30 minute stop into your day which is a massive inconvenience.

Anybody that says range anxiety isn't a thing definitely doesn't have children. A stop is much more problematic with kids in the car than without. I had a journey that was about 170m and I had 190m of range remaining when I set off (because I had to use my car that day before setting off so I had no chance to recharge more). About 100m to go it went to 100m remaining and then the range was depeting faster than the remaining distance. It was late and I really didn't want to stop. I spent the entire journey watching the 2 numbers. Thankfully, the 1st half of the journey was uphill and the 2nd was downhill which is why the range was depleting faster than the remaining distance. Got home with about 10m of range remaining. I was definitely anxious the entire way home. Wouldn't have been a disaster having to stop but there is no comparison between a 2 minute petrol stop and a 15+ minute charging stop if it means the kids waking up.
I'm always confused by how many "there and back" long long journeys people claim to regularly be doing. Do you not charge at the "there"? And how often do you do these journeys? It's my usual issue with this argument. People complain about range yet can't justify their complaints unless they invent specific, quite complex journeys that they all seem to "regularly" go on. Simple fact is: for 95% of all journeys, if you can charge at home, you don't charge at all. That's the issue I have. We get into a range argument that concentrates on unique or complex journeys and totally ignores the actual journeys we do on average
 

Brian Marwood

Well-known member
Incorrect, I'm showing my working. The fact that people have to make up convoluted and rarely taken journeys to try and disprove the fact range anxiety doesn't exist is helping prove my case

If I could be bothered I would tell you the driving that I do, the stops that I make and why the current range wouldn't work for me and why it would give me anxiety. Basically I drive at least 250 miles until I stop.

But you wouldn't accept it and would spout some other nonsense so I won't waste my time.

You are wrong though.
 

Nano

Well-known member
I'm always confused by how many "there and back" long long journeys people claim to regularly be doing. Do you not charge at the "there"? And how often do you do these journeys? It's my usual issue with this argument. People complain about range yet can't justify their complaints unless they invent specific, quite complex journeys that they all seem to "regularly" go on. Simple fact is: for 95% of all journeys, if you can charge at home, you don't charge at all. That's the issue I have. We get into a range argument that concentrates on unique or complex journeys and totally ignores the actual journeys we do on average

"There" rarely has a charger. I have a charger at home and there are chargers at services but very few destinations have a charger. If you go to someone's house that doesn't have an EV the best you can hope for is a 3 pin which is fine if you are staying a weekend and not using the car but not if you are going home the same day and definitely not if you need to drive around while you are there. I have friends and family all around the country that I meet up with regularly. 100 miles each way is fairly common. You live in London so I presume you meet people in London but the rest of the country don't do that. I'll happily drive 2 hours to someone's house for the day or to a golf course, a football match, a walk or the races etc. I can just about do most journeys in my car but many EVs don't have the same range as mine.

It's admirable you defend EVs so much but people do have concerns and they are valid. You can't dismiss everyone just because your circumstances don't cause you any issues. EVs are great, really convenient for the majority of driving but can be an absolute pain in the **** which you never have with an ICE.
 

Warwickboro

Well-known member
Assuming range will improve anyway, charging times will improve, battery life will improve with replacements located at services in the future, my final question is, are there lots of bug family options either estate or suv with big boots available yet?
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
Oh sorry, can anybody explain how / why the acceleration is so much better in electric vs petrol
Yes, an electric motor has full torque at 0 revs. So in an ICE car you have to wait for the revs to increase before the full torque is available. Electric motors have full torque from a standstill so can start quicker than an equivalent ICE
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
Assuming range will improve anyway, charging times will improve, battery life will improve with replacements located at services in the future, my final question is, are there lots of bug family options either estate or suv with big boots available yet?
I imagine range won't improve much, if at all, in this country because it's fine at the moment for the premium cars. Charging speeds will improve and infrastructure reliability has to improve.
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
You can't dismiss everyone just because your circumstances don't cause you any issues.
It's not "my" circumstnaces though. That's the point everyone, who wants to personally attack me as is the trend, is missing.

It's the average journey. It's the journey the man on the Clapham omnibus takes every day. This is the point I'm trying to get across. The average journey in this country is something like 14 miles. Not MY average journey, or the average Londoners journey, the average journey for everyone.

Let me put it another way, for the majority of the time we use our cars to go to work or go to the shops. How many of us work and shop 100 miles away from where we live?
 

JustTheGent

Well-known member
With regards to my OP, I posted the article because it seemed pretty balanced. The person giving their account is a professor, so you'd certainly presume her judgement with regards to cost and other things to be at least on par with the average person.

My take on it is she is actually overrating her EV purchase. I believe this for many reasons but one of the most obvious ones is if she keeps the vehicle for a lengthy period, it will likely develop problems. There's many reasons for this, but perhaps the most obvious one is we know these batteries are vulnerable by default. They degrade from the word go - in some circumstances this can be quite dramatic.

The emerging problem that is firmly on the horizon is the lack of materials used to make these batteries. Tesla are already starting to use cheaper batteries which have less energy density and less range due to material shortage. You'll often hear about technology, but in this case Tesla are actually going backwards. As detailed in the article underneath.


We also know there is a big supply problem in the EV industry, especially with Tesla. Some people have had to wait up to 6 months to get their cars repaired. This surely has got to push up insurance premiums, but I guess the nature of EVs makes insurance higher anyway. You've got to buy a new one for a stack of money or buy a used one without knowing how long the battery will have left and a potential humongous bill served up if a replacement is needed.

As far as this TCO goes, it's all spin. If it looks expensive - it is expensive, for me. Your pocket will tell you anyway. In fact, studies have shown that a petrol car that only averages 33mpg is still cheaper to run than an EV. In California data illustrated that it cost $12.95 to go 100 miles on electric and only $8.58 on petrol.


Those with common sense know about technology and cars and how it breaks. Just look at those Tesla owners who were locked out of their vehicles because the internet went down. They needed to use an app to get into their vehicles but couldn't access it 😆

Whatever happened to that good old technology called a key?
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
Those with common sense know about technology and cars and how it breaks. Just look at those Tesla owners who were locked out of their vehicles because the internet went down. They needed to use an app to get into their vehicles but couldn't access it 😆

Whatever happened to that good old technology called a key
I can’t pick out all the lies genty is spewing so I’ll just concentrate on one: Tesla have changed their battery technology because they want one which uses less rare earth minerals.
I’m actually glad genty pulled that little nugget from his troll sack because it highlights where he is at:

Tesla use new, slightly less energy dense batteries for it’s latest vehicles. Trolls like Gent have it easy here: if they don’t use these batteries he’ll say something seemingly honest about lithium mines. As they do use them, he can say something seemingly honest about energy density. Either way he’s just looking for a troll-line. He knows that the new batteries are more environmentally friendly but of course he can’t be honest and say that
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
With regards to my OP, I posted the article because it seemed pretty balanced. The person giving their account is a professor, so you'd certainly presume her judgement with regards to cost and other things to be at least on par with the average person.

My take on it is she is actually overrating her EV purchase. I believe this for many reasons but one of the most obvious ones is if she keeps the vehicle for a lengthy period, it will likely develop problems. There's many reasons for this, but perhaps the most obvious one is we know these batteries are vulnerable by default. They degrade from the word go - in some circumstances this can be quite dramatic.

The emerging problem that is firmly on the horizon is the lack of materials used to make these batteries. Tesla are already starting to use cheaper batteries which have less energy density and less range due to material shortage. You'll often hear about technology, but in this case Tesla are actually going backwards. As detailed in the article underneath.


We also know there is a big supply problem in the EV industry, especially with Tesla. Some people have had to wait up to 6 months to get their cars repaired. This surely has got to push up insurance premiums, but I guess the nature of EVs makes insurance higher anyway. You've got to buy a new one for a stack of money or buy a used one without knowing how long the battery will have left and a potential humongous bill served up if a replacement is needed.

As far as this TCO goes, it's all spin. If it looks expensive - it is expensive, for me. Your pocket will tell you anyway. In fact, studies have shown that a petrol car that only averages 33mpg is still cheaper to run than an EV. In California data illustrated that it cost $12.95 to go 100 miles on electric and only $8.58 on petrol.


Those with common sense know about technology and cars and how it breaks. Just look at those Tesla owners who were locked out of their vehicles because the internet went down. They needed to use an app to get into their vehicles but couldn't access it 😆

Whatever happened to that good old technology called a key?
We know he’s lying about the battery life thing. Ignoring degradation of ICE over time and ignoring the huge warranties manufacturers are giving their batteries so I’ll ignore that lie and concentrate on some others:

the Tesla app lie as a cracking lie in so many ways: firstly because it only affects one manufacturer. Genty is trying to make EV about a single manufacturer because it makes his trolling easier. Secondly it’s false because all Tesla come with a key card as well as a phone up. Thirdly it’s a lie because the phone app doesn’t need the internet to work. My parking has no signal for either the phone or the car, and yet the access app works. Fourthly, and this is perhaps my favourite part of the lie IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH EVs🤣🤣🤣 even if it wasn’t a lie, it’s related to how a manufacturer controls access to half its line up of vehicles (model s and x do come with a key). I had a Merc diesel that had keyless entry too. So desperate is he to try and troll EVs he’s picking a problem that isn’t even related to EV. Priceless
 

morrissey

Active member
I have a smallish electric SUV Hyundai Kona.
The heating does significantly reduce remaining mileage but as someone has said, try to charge the car with heating timed to come on just before you set off. Motorway driving at 70mph also reduces the mileage but can serve to 'persuade'you to reduce your speed.
I went to Stoke in my car and recharged at the last Service Sration north of Stoke, had a cuppa and a sarnie and had enough charge to get home (just).
Nice little car but with a list price of 35k, not feasible yet for mass sales (mine's a company vehicle).
Home charger is a complete no-brainer and it is handy getting into a warm, fully defrosted car on a freezing cold morning.
I have a short commute with the occasional long trip, so ideal for me.
All in all, I like the EV and I love the acceleration, even in a Kona, it's rapid!
 
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