The 24/25 promotion charge starts here

[VestasBoro]

We signed 12 first team players in the summer.

Gilbert, VDB, Glover, Rogers, Silvera, Dieng, Jones, Engel, Lath, Bangura, Greenwood, O'Brien

I'd argue and say we signed those in bold as first team players.

I don't think Gilbert or Jones were signed as first team players.

I can see us bringing in a similar number in the summer, around 10-12 players with around 8 to be in and around the first team squad with the rest being reserve players, maybe a 3rd choice keeper and 'projects'

 

[B_G]

I can see us bringing in a similar number in the summer, around 10-12 players with around 8 to be in and around the first team squad with the rest being reserve players, maybe a 3rd choice keeper and 'projects'

I agree. The question is, will the 8 players be better than the players that we have lost/will lose:

Howson
McNair
Crooks
Rogers
O'Brien
Ayling
Greenwood
Thomas
Hackney?
McGree?

Or are we going to reduce the quality of the squad again? That's not an easy group of players to replace and improve without spending good money and using the loan market. Let's be honest, if we replace those players with players of a similar ilk as last season then we are going to be fecked.

 

[TeaCider]

Gilbert, VDB, Glover, Rogers, Silvera, Dieng, Jones, Engel, Lath, Bangura, Greenwood, O'Brien

I'd argue and say we signed those in bold as first team players.

I don't think Gilbert or Jones were signed as first team players.

I can see us bringing in a similar number in the summer, around 10-12 players with around 8 to be in and around the first team squad with the rest being reserve players, maybe a 3rd choice keeper and 'projects'

We spent nearly £1m in compensation on Gilbert, he was definitely bought as a first team player, he's just clearly not impressing Carrick.

 

[BoroMart]

Well villa managed to get us to sell after barely 6 months so depends on the club.

What was the excuse not replacing Chuba in the summer then I’m just frustrated with our obsession not to buy a proven striker latte lath isn’t that btw

proven strikers are poor value for money, see Britt, 5.5m a season for 4 seasons and six years of impact on FFP. Zero resale value. We need to sign young up and coming strikers, for 4-8m, and if someone offers 20m+ we will sell and buy again at 6-10m. This is the model to progress. Building FFP room year on year while inceasing the asset value of the squad until we are strong enough as a squad to go up

 

[BoroMart]

Piece of p*ss, this.

The strategy is a piece of p*ss.......the execution of it is where it takes hard work, talent, knowledge and a bit of luck. But if you haven't got a workable strategy and don't stick to the strategy then you're just throwing sh*t at a wall and hoping some of it sticks.

 

[Humpty]

I'm almost at the "season is written off" stage, I think there's no more than a 5% chance of promotion, injuries have hamstrung us (pun intended).

So, with an eye on next year, the last two seasons have been ruined by poor poor starts, we can't do that again. What should we do in the next 14 games to get as ready as possible for next year?

I guess we need to look at the squad and who will be here:

Here net year: Dieng, Glover, Smith (if fit), Rav, Clarke, Fry, Bangura, Lenihan, Engel, Hackney, I Jones, Azaz, Lath, Silvera, Coburn, Forss (16)

Open to offers: Barlaser, McGree, Gilbert (3)

Fighting for a contract: J Jones, Ayling, Thomas, Howson, O'Brien, Greenwood (5)

Out: Dijksteel, McNair, Crooks, Hoppe (4)

This is what I suggest:

1 - That core 16 need melding into a team, ok Smith, Bangura, Lenihan aren't going to play, but we need to make sure Rav plays every game to get his experience up, he should be first choice next year.
2 - Dieng needs to be back in goal to get the relationship with the defence.
3 - Hackney has to be in his proper position CM to build around
4 - Lath needs a run up front once fit to learn the english game more
5 - The McGree conundrum. If he is out the side because of fitness, get him out completely and let him get 100% fit for next year. Take the opportunity to give Silvera and others game time to learn for next year. If McGree is out of the side because Carrick doesn't fancy him (possible because we did sign Ramsey last year to take his place) then it's pointless playing him and taking game time from others like Silvera who have a future here.
6 - I guess we need that agreement with Dael for an extra year OR, do we sell and buy a top quality replacement? If we are going to sell, I'd look at playing Rav RCB and Clarke alongside
7 - Give Thomas a go and talk to him about signing long term, he looks way better than Engel.

Looking at that core 16, it's pretty obvious what we need to be signing in the summer:
1 - First choice RB
2 - A LB if we are writing off Engel
3 - A backup CB or a first choice if Fry is sold
4 - Howsons replacement, a top quality CDM
5 - competition at CM
6 - A quality wide forward or sign Greenwood and improve him
7 - A quality CF

Could take 15m investment to get this where we want. Or 10m and a couple of good loans. At least we have loads of FFP room to invest and 7-8 signings instead of 11 (plus 3 in january)

I'm on board with all of that with the exception of your priority list. We're going no where without at least one top quality centre forward. I think we need two personally.

 

[BoroMart]

I'm on board with all of that with the exception of your priority list. We're going no where without at least one top quality centre forward. I think we need two personally.

I did say a quality CF, and I would add that if we get a quality wide forward, I'd prefer it to be in the mold of Forss, someone that can also cover CF, add in Lath, Forss, Jones, Silvera etc and we start to have a bit more cover in multiple positions. The issue with signing two top CFs, is that we only play with one and can't really afford to have some of our best quality on the bench. So flexibility is important in one of those players

 

[VestasBoro]

We spent nearly £1m in compensation on Gilbert, he was definitely bought as a first team player, he's just clearly not impressing Carrick.

600k rising to 1m, even still i don't think he was signed and Carrick thought he'd play very much first team football.
Probably more than he has, but still i don't think anyone thought he'd be in the first team.

 

[Humpty]

I did say a quality CF, and I would add that if we get a quality wide forward, I'd prefer it to be in the mold of Forss, someone that can also cover CF, add in Lath, Forss, Jones, Silvera etc and we start to have a bit more cover in multiple positions. The issue with signing two top CFs, is that we only play with one and can't really afford to have some of our best quality on the bench. So flexibility is important in one of those players

Yeah i agree with that. I meant two centre forward's rather than two top quality forwards. Regardless we need a squad of forwards that can do the job required, similar to 15/16 with Nugent, Rhodes, Kike, Stuani etc.

Lath is good enough to be one of the those forwards but imo, as it stands not THE first choice forward.

 

[Blf]

OK. So we sold Tav Chuba and Morgan for around £30 million plus a few others . Where's the 10 x £3 million or 8 x £4 million players.
It will be the same as this season. Oh we tried but just couldn't get it across the line.
By the way it took Brentford 72 years to get promoted to the Premier league.

 

[Bruce]

This season, according to Transfermarkt, Coventry have spent about 37 million euros on transfers. The results have been mixed. Like us they started slowly because they had a huge rebuild but the greater quality of their recruits is showing now. Mind you, a large amount of their turnaround probably comes from Callum O'Hare being back from injury.

Like Coventry this season, next season I would be expecting us to spend somewhere around £20m-30m with most of that on 2-3 key players even without selling our "crown jewels." We absolutely should be (and need to be) shopping in a better store this summer than last summer. Doesn't mean spending for the sake of it but we absolutely should be focusing on greater quality and greater ability to hit the ground running than this season.

 

[BoroMart]

OK. So we sold Tav Chuba and Morgan for around £30 million plus a few others . Where's the 10 x £3 million or 8 x £4 million players.
It will be the same as this season. Oh we tried but just couldn't get it across the line.
By the way it took Brentford 72 years to get promoted to the Premier league.

There are two distinct issues to allow us to invest.

1) FFP, this is the biggest constraint in recent years. Next year releases a lot of FFP scope for us.

+7m with britt and fletcher finally dropping off
+8m-16m for Rogers
+10m Akpom
+12m Spence
+10m+ Tavernier
On top of this we have large wage earners from previous eras dropping off the FFP window.

We get significant FFP scope next year, that we haven't been able to utilise before.

2) How we finance it is a different question., the club has reduced debts this year, writing off those debts is a significant indicator that we are preparing for investment this summer. The parent company will continue to put money in, probably further loans to invest in playing, and we can get commercial loans too, if necessary.

this is the first time since Garry Monk's short but disastrous reign that we actually have scope to go spend in big numbers.

Brentford......their strategy took about 8 years to get them up, but they started at a much lower base than us and with fewer natural advantages being a traditionally tiny unsupported club.

 

[Jedi boro]

proven strikers are poor value for money, see Britt, 5.5m a season for 4 seasons and six years of impact on FFP. Zero resale value. We need to sign young up and coming strikers, for 4-8m, and if someone offers 20m+ we will sell and buy again at 6-10m. This is the model to progress. Building FFP room year on year while inceasing the asset value of the squad until we are strong enough as a squad to go up

Yet we spent 5 mil on latte lath who is 25 so hardly up and coming. It’s a false economy with a good striker goal supply you’re going nowhere in this league.

 

[Glover_elbow]

Gilbert, VDB, Glover, Rogers, Silvera, Dieng, Jones, Engel, Lath, Bangura, Greenwood, O'Brien

I'd argue and say we signed those in bold as first team players.

I don't think Gilbert or Jones were signed as first team players.

I can see us bringing in a similar number in the summer, around 10-12 players with around 8 to be in and around the first team squad with the rest being reserve players, maybe a 3rd choice keeper and 'projects'

Two keepers in the first 11

 

[VestasBoro]

I would include subs as first team.
Sub keeper can be included within the first team, especially when MC knew Dieng would be away for ages.
Gilbert wouldn't and shouldn't get a game for the reserves.

 

[h_m_boro]

Yeah i agree with that. I meant two centre forward's rather than two top quality forwards. Regardless we need a squad of forwards that can do the job required, similar to 15/16 with Nugent, Rhodes, Kike, Stuani etc.

Lath is good enough to be one of the those forwards but imo, as it stands not THE first choice forward.

I agree we need 2 possibly 3 CFs in, having a pool of 4. What happens with Coburn will obviously impact our transfer strategy.

But having Lath, Coburn CF, CF as a minimum next season seems sensible to cover injuries, suspension, loss of form etc.

Most definitely quality over quantity this summer

 

[Kowalski]

proven strikers are poor value for money, see Britt, 5.5m a season for 4 seasons and six years of impact on FFP. Zero resale value. We need to sign young up and coming strikers, for 4-8m, and if someone offers 20m+ we will sell and buy again at 6-10m. This is the model to progress. Building FFP room year on year while inceasing the asset value of the squad until we are strong enough as a squad to go up

Why was there 6 years impact on FFP? Thanks.

 

[outoftown]

The squad is hugely imbalanced IMHO , and unless we have all of our 'best 13' available, it is too predictable, one paced, and worst case unadaptable.
We need to bring in 3 - 5 minimum to stop the "square peg round hole" scenario when injuries do occur.
Instead of playing HH elsewhere, your options are adaptable enough to go 3 5 2 for example.

In order of priorities I think it's this.

1) A genuinely athletic / physical DCM. if HH goes, we've 1 CM on our books who isn't in the twilight of his career, and he isn't great defensively . If HH stays, I'd rather he did what he does best, and let someone else do most of the ugly stuff.
( This could be 2 if HH goes )

2) A quick LW , not a drift inside LF, who understands defensive responsibilities. Basically Jones but on the left.
( Could be 2 if RM goes )

3) A solid defense, but quick RB. Ayling would of been fine three years ago. Having two 32 year old right backs isn't sensible. AD isn't the answer unfortunately.

Rough guess of 12 mil for the 3 , or 25 for the 5

I think not getting a CF in , in Jan on loan was bonkers.. But would be okay with starting the season with Coburn Forss and ELL as the options.

 

[BoroMart]

Yet we spent 5 mil on latte lath who is 25 so hardly up and coming. It’s a false economy with a good striker goal supply you’re going nowhere in this league.

It was 4m and you will not get a proven championship goalscorer for anywhere near that. If Lath is a success at this level he'll be worth 15m+ a proven champ scorer will cost you 15m and still be worth 15m when he scores goals. You are gambling on promotion with no plan B with that route. We tried that route with Britt, it was disastrous for the club for 6 years.

Proven means done it more than once at this level, how much was Gyokeres? 20m
Piroe cost 3x what Lath cost

Lath has been held back by injuries his record is pretty good, in fact one of the best in the division, for mins per goal from CFs.



What I geekily find fascinating is how the top scorers this season are NOT CFs

1 - Szmodic - is a 28 year old number 10 with no real scoring history at this level best season 7 league goals. Transfer fee: 1.7m
2 - Whittaker - right wing, 3 goals in 58 games in the champo before this season. Transfer Fee: 1m
3 - Adam Armstrong - CF 56 in 186 games prior to this season, scored just 6 goals in his first 36 champo games, 15m striker
4 - Summerville - RW - transfer fee 1.2m
5 - Jack Clarke - LW - 11 goals in 81 championship games before this season
6 - Jon Rowe - LW - 0 goals in 12 games before this season
7 - Ryan Hardie - CF - first season at this level, but only 1 in 4 in League One
8 - Will Keane - CF - 20 championship goals in 118 games before this season
9 - Dewsbury-Hall - CM 3 goals in 39 championship games before this season
10 - Dan James - LW - 4 in 33 at this level

The idea that you can go out and buy a championship proven goalscorer isn't realistic. The proven ones tend to now be playing in the prem on prem wages, occasionally they play down at this level under parachute payments (adam Armstrong and Piroe I guess). Only 3 of the top 10 scorers this season are actually CFs and only 1 is a consistent scorer at this level............and both Latte Lath and Josh Coburns record at this level is better than the early years for all top 10 scorers this year.