The National

Aintree isn't just the Grand National though is it? How does the horse know which race it has been entered in to?
Ok one last answer, it doesn’t, clearly.

However, it does know a racecourse when it sees one, it knows what fences are and they will be going racing. They remember past falls, past races, if a horse doesn’t like somewhere or something it lets you know, horses do have memories. There were several fallers yesterday that continued jumping fences without a jockey on board so were they being remotely controlled? Clearly not. Did they have to jump? No, clearly not, they continued jumping and racing because they wanted to. Granted one or two eventually decided not to and stopped themselves. Horses are not dumb animals that comply to humans, they are intelligent and act on their own minds to suit themselves and if that means ducking a fence, they can and do at will, they are powerful animals and I have yet to meet a human capable of making a horse do something against its will, especially when travelling at 35 mph.

Some trainers do take some horses to racetracks and they are schooled on the course when it is closed to the public, it happens more than you think, sometimes it is on racedays after the public has gone home. Trainers know horses quirks and If you watch the morning show during Cheltenham Festival you will see the horses on the track having a trot around they are shown fences and they know exactly what they will be doing.
 

Looks idyllic this race horse life.....

By the way, the first point addresses something you said above:

The things they say... in defence of horse racing

If the horses didn’t like it, they wouldn’t carry on running after their jockeys fall off. Horses sometimes carry on attempting to run with a severely broken leg – but not out of enjoyment. Horses are herd animals. They feel safer when part of a group, especially in the noisy, often unfamiliar race-day environment.

The horses enjoy the challenge. They are often not equal to the challenge. The modern industry, as we have seen, concentrates on breeding lighter-boned, speedier animals for Flat racing. Less successful Flat race horses, or those good at clearing fences, are consigned to jump racing. But, because they are fine-tuned for speed rather than skeletal strength, they risk fatal injury when they fall.

Horse death is natural. Horses in the wild die too. There is nothing natural about whipping highly inbred horses to force them to run as fast as they can and jump a series of life threatening obstacles.
 
Ok one last answer, it doesn’t, clearly.

However, it does know a racecourse when it sees one, it knows what fences are and they will be going racing. They remember past falls, past races, if a horse doesn’t like somewhere or something it lets you know, horses do have memories. There were several fallers yesterday that continued jumping fences without a jockey on board so were they being remotely controlled? Clearly not. Did they have to jump? No, clearly not, they continued jumping and racing because they wanted to. Granted one or two eventually decided not to and stopped themselves. Horses are not dumb animals that comply to humans, they are intelligent and act on their own minds to suit themselves and if that means ducking a fence, they can and do at will, they are powerful animals and I have yet to meet a human capable of making a horse do something against its will, especially when travelling at 35 mph.

Some trainers do take some horses to racetracks and they are schooled on the course when it is closed to the public, it happens more than you think, sometimes it is on racedays after the public has gone home. Trainers know horses quirks and If you watch the morning show during Cheltenham Festival you will see the horses on the track having a trot around they are shown fences and they know exactly what they will be doing.
So why do we need jockeys then?
 
From the British Horseracing Authority
'We respect the right of anyone to hold views about our sport but we robustly condemn the reckless and potentially harmful actions of a handful of people in disrupting the race at a time when horses were in the parade ring," added Harrington.
"Those involved in British racing are rightly proud of our sport and the role it plays in providing an unparalleled quality of life for horses bred for racing. Love and respect for horses is at the heart of everything we do.
"The Grand National is and always will be an iconic sporting event and the actions of a small number of people will do nothing to diminish its huge and enduring international appeal."

What a load of bolxxcks
I know which side of the fence I'm on.
 
From the British Horseracing Authority
'We respect the right of anyone to hold views about our sport but we robustly condemn the reckless and potentially harmful actions of a handful of people in disrupting the race at a time when horses were in the parade ring," added Harrington.
"Those involved in British racing are rightly proud of our sport and the role it plays in providing an unparalleled quality of life for horses bred for racing. Love and respect for horses is at the heart of everything we do.
"The Grand National is and always will be an iconic sporting event and the actions of a small number of people will do nothing to diminish its huge and enduring international appeal."

What a load of bolxxcks
I know which side of the fence I'm on.
They are as bad as some in this thread.
 
There was one in particular that looked pretty unhappy just after the first fence.

When all is said and done on this thread we have some (me included) saying we don't want horses to die, and others making every excuse under the sun why a clearly unsafe race should be allowed to continue. I feel happy that I am on the right side of this.
Whatever you say with your evidence, fact based approach. You wonder why you get challenged.

I'll say this as respectfully as I can, you don't know the first thing about horses nor what is good for them, or, for that matter, bad for them. You haven't even bothered to read any articles before voicing an opinion. You have no idea whether you are on the rightg side of this or not, because, you didn't bother to find out.
 
So why do we need jockeys then?
What a silly question, I am sure you can work that out for yourself.
I will humour you though, they are there to guide and assist, the horse and jockey are a team, sometimes the horse makes the decision it doesn’t want to be a team player and stops racing so they are pulled up, sometimes it ducks out at the wings and dispatches the jockey occasionally, sometimes it ducks out when it knows where the stables are. These things don’t happen often as the horse is fine, when it isn’t it lets you know and there is nowt a jockey can do about it.
 
Whatever you say with your evidence, fact based approach. You wonder why you get challenged.

I'll say this as respectfully as I can, you don't know the first thing about horses nor what is good for them, or, for that matter, bad for them. You haven't even bothered to read any articles before voicing an opinion. You have no idea whether you are on the rightg side of this or not, because, you didn't bother to find out.
I'm pretty sure dying at the first fence is classed as bad for them.
 
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Introduction

The image the racing industry promotes is that of a harmless sport in which its prize asset – the Thoroughbred race horse – is cosseted and treated like a king. Occasionally, it is acknowledged, racecourse ‘accidents’ happen and an animal dies. But all sports, the industry goes on to argue, including those involving people, produce victims. In reality, no other sport comes close to matching racing’s attrition rate. If it did, a ban would quickly be imposed. Approximately one in every 37 horses who starts a season’s racing will have perished by the end of it. They will have died as a result of a racecourse or training injury, or they will be killed after being judged to be no longer financially viable. Far from being cosseted, race horses are typically confined to their stables for much of the day. They are released for short, intense periods of exercise and to travel – sometimes great distances – to and from race meetings. They are confined for such long periods, with feed brought to them, that some even have to be taught to eat grass once their racing days are over.

There is little financial provision for race horses at the end of their careers. Many are shot or lethally injected at their stables, or they are sent for slaughter. In 2007, Animal Aid secretly filmed apparently healthy but unwanted Thoroughbreds being shot in the head and butchered at a Taunton slaughterhouse.

Breeding

Approximately 13,000 foals are born into the closely related British and Irish racing industries each year. There are many crude jokes about the supposedly perfect life of the breeding stallion. But his is an existence of near isolation and deadening routine. Barring physical breakdown, it can go on for 20 or more years. During the six month breeding season, a stallion can be required to ‘cover’ three mares a day. Outside the breeding shed, he is kept separated from mares and other males. When not housed in his stable, he is likely to be confined behind high fences. Breeding females are subjected to drugs and prolonged periods of artificial light to control and speed up reproduction. Left to their own devices, mares in the wild have one foal every two years, or perhaps two every three years. They deliver in the spring, after a pregnancy lasting 11 months.

The racing industry forces many mares to produce a foal every year until late in life – a burden of almost constant pregnancy. The industry is ruthless when sizing up the potential of newborn foals. There has been an increase in foal ‘production’ of around 125 per cent since the 1960s. Approximately 20 per cent of Thoroughbreds born will never race, and a substantial majority will have careers of just two or three seasons. Some of the ‘failures’ are taken up by other equestrian events but most cannot be accounted for. The evidence points to a significant proportion being killed at their yards, fed to hunting hounds, or butchered for meat.

Why is there so much ‘over-production’? Owners and breeders are hooked on the promise of big prizes and glory. They breed speculatively, hoping to produce an ‘X Factor’ champion. When horses come up short – as most inevitably will – there is a good chance that they will be disposed of.

Inbred for speed

The world’s dominant breeders now produce a ‘one model fits all’ animal who is asked to do a variety of jobs that he or she can no longer safely undertake. Speed is a key requisite for this modern all-purpose Thoroughbred – at the expense of skeletal strength and general robustness. The consequences are felt especially by horses entered into jump racing – the sector responsible for 80 per cent of racecourse fatalities. But animals racing on the Flat also suffer a high casualty rate. Amongst a typical group of 100, one fracture will occur every month.

Typically, race horses die – or are killed – as a result of a broken limb or neck, severe tendon injuries, spinal injuries or a heart attack. One horse dies on a British racecourse every two days of racing, even though these deaths are rarely reported in the media. Serious racing-related illnesses such as bleeding lungs and gastric ulcers are now also endemic. Eighty-two per cent of Flat race horses older than three years of age suffer from bleeding lungs (Exercise-Induced Pulmonary Haemorrhage), which can cause blood to leak from the nostrils. Gastric ulcers are present in no fewer than 93 per cent of horses in training, in whom the condition gets progressively worse. When horses are retired, the condition improves.

Use of the whip

Our research showed that the British Horseracing Authority’s (BHA) rules on the whip were being regularly and repeatedly flouted by jockeys, with 887 breaches during 2010, and 15 jockeys each committing 10 or more offences. In the first six months of 2011, 10 horses were wealed by the BHA’s so-called welfare-friendly cushioned whip.

A long-awaited review of the whip was published by the BHA in 2011. However, following several bouts of rebellion from disgruntled jockeys, the new rules were watered down and former restrictions on whip strikes became merely a guideline – leaving horses who are repeatedly hit vulnerable to the subjective discretion of the Stewards as to whether or not they have been abused. The case for an outright whip ban is stronger than ever. In 2012, a new international initiative was launched, spearheaded by Animal Aid and supported by animal advocacy groups in Australia, France, Germany and the Republic of Ireland – countries in which there are strong horseracing industries.

Norway banned the whip in 1982 – an action that has been met with the enthusiastic approval of racecourse officials, horse trainers and spectators, according to Hans Petter Eriksen, administrative director of the Norwegian Jockey Club.

When racing has finished

Around 7,500 horses leave racing each year. Despite all the [racing industry] initiatives and PR, there is a black hole in the records on the fate of ex-race horses,’ according to a recent investigation by Horse & Hound magazine. There is very little detailed analysis of the fate of ex-race horses. But a telling report was published by the BHA in response to criticism by Animal Aid. It showed that of the 7,590 horses who left racing in 2006, around 43 per cent were either dead or not traceable just two years later. 852 were reported dead while the whereabouts of 2,404 was not known.

Given such dismal statistics, it is unsurprising that the various branches of the multi-billion pound racing and betting industry allocate a comparative pittance to retired race horses. The total revenues in official schemes amounted to less than 1 million in 2010 and those same official channels are managing to retrain fewer than 200 ex-race horses each year.

Conclusion

The evidence points to a hard-headed, exploitative industry that – notwithstanding the soft-focus PR message – treats race horses as disposable commodities. It routinely produces more Thoroughbreds than racing can accommodate but takes virtually no responsibility for the ‘surplus’. Unwanted horses are sold to whoever wishes to buy them or they are killed in their yards or sent for slaughter. The hundreds of annual racecourse and in-training deaths are often written off as unforeseen accidents. Sometimes, as many as four horses perish in a single day at one racecourse.

Terms such as ‘statistical blip’ are used to explain such carnage. Animal Aid has investigated the horse racing industry for more than 15 years, producing several detailed reports and conducting a series of undercover investigations. Our evidence leads us to the conclusion that it is an industry that does not warrant public support in the form of betting income, racecourse attendance fees or commercial sponsorship.



Anything in this incorrect?
 
Some cracking posts in here.

Unfortunately the horse I backed finished outside the top four. 🥺

As for cruelty to horses I'm guessing it's because some died? If we ban horse racing because of that what else do we ban?

Motorsports? Drivers and riders have died over the past decade taking part in car and bike racing.

Football? Players have had to retire or have passed because of health issues related to the fitness requirements. Let's knock that sport on the head too? Too dangerous.

Rugby? Repeated concussions causing problems later on in life? Make it tag rugby only and no scrums.
 

Looks idyllic this race horse life.....

By the way, the first point addresses something you said above:

The things they say... in defence of horse racing

If the horses didn’t like it, they wouldn’t carry on running after their jockeys fall off. Horses sometimes carry on attempting to run with a severely broken leg – but not out of enjoyment. Horses are herd animals. They feel safer when part of a group, especially in the noisy, often unfamiliar race-day environment.

The horses enjoy the challenge. They are often not equal to the challenge. The modern industry, as we have seen, concentrates on breeding lighter-boned, speedier animals for Flat racing. Less successful Flat race horses, or those good at clearing fences, are consigned to jump racing. But, because they are fine-tuned for speed rather than skeletal strength, they risk fatal injury when they fall.

Horse death is natural. Horses in the wild die too. There is nothing natural about whipping highly inbred horses to force them to run as fast as they can and jump a series of life threatening obstacles.
You will always find comments to suit your view as I can mine, Horses may be social or herd animals, dogs are pack animals, yet we domesticated them to suit our human lives, racehorses are not pack animals, there are very few herds of horses around, Dartmoor maybe, New Forest, most are domesticated to some degree by humans, horses are individuals too. Herd animals have a hierarchy within a herd, that is not the same instinct with a bunch of strangers on a racecourse, they are not of the pack if you will are they?
 
I'm pretty sure dying at the first fence is classed as bad for them.
How many of the 39 horses would die in any given year running around a field? What is the life expectancy for a farm horse versus a race horse, on average?

If you know those numbers you can come to a fact based opinion. Your opinion is anything but fact based.

All animal training is based on a simple premise, get the animal to do what it does naturally, but on command. Horses love to race, or they wouldn't. It makes them happy and content. Yes some die in racing incidents, more die ambling round a field. You have to assess that trade off. A life locked in a paddock, or pulling some machinery at a walking pace bores horses to death.

Everything else you are saying is designed purely to irritate and adds nothing to the conversation.
 
As for cruelty to horses I'm guessing it's because some died? If we ban horse racing because of that what else do we ban?

Motorsports? Drivers and riders have died over the past decade taking part in car and bike racing.

Football? Players have had to retire or have passed because of health issues related to the fitness requirements. Let's knock that sport on the head too? Too dangerous.

Rugby? Repeated concussions causing problems later on in life? Make it tag rugby only and no scrums.
Show me where they have been whipped and we'll talk....
 
How many of the 39 horses would die in any given year running around a field? What is the life expectancy for a farm horse versus a race horse, on average?

If you know those numbers you can come to a fact based opinion. Your opinion is anything but fact based.

All animal training is based on a simple premise, get the animal to do what it does naturally, but on command. Horses love to race, or they wouldn't. It makes them happy and content. Yes some die in racing incidents, more die ambling round a field. You have to assess that trade off. A life locked in a paddock, or pulling some machinery at a walking pace bores horses to death.

Everything else you are saying is designed purely to irritate and adds nothing to the conversation.
Anything factually incorrect in post 234?
 
What a silly question, I am sure you can work that out for yourself.
I will humour you though, they are there to guide and assist, the horse and jockey are a team, sometimes the horse makes the decision it doesn’t want to be a team player and stops racing so they are pulled up, sometimes it ducks out at the wings and dispatches the jockey occasionally, sometimes it ducks out when it knows where the stables are. These things don’t happen often as the horse is fine, when it isn’t it lets you know and there is nowt a jockey can do about it.
It's a silly question because I do know what the jockey is there for.

It's not a silly question when it's replying to you telling me that a horse knows exactly why it's at the racecourse, has memorised the course, understands the risks and is happy to take part.

The horse is instinctively running with the herd. We saw a bunch of horses that had unseated their riders running alongside the course but not over the fences. Had they forgotten where they were supposed to be going in all the excitement?

Personally, I'm not against animals in sport (or animals for eating) but don't dress it up as something it isn't.


Whatever you say with your evidence, fact based approach. You wonder why you get challenged.

I'll say this as respectfully as I can, you don't know the first thing about horses nor what is good for them, or, for that matter, bad for them. You haven't even bothered to read any articles before voicing an opinion. You have no idea whether you are on the rightg side of this or not, because, you didn't bother to find out.
Again, this is disingenuous. I don't need to know the first thing about horses to know that humans using animals for entertainment can be viewed as a moral wrong and in a completely just universe it wouldn't happen.

Are you pro-slavery (human)? If not (and I'd like to assume you're against), why not?

If you put a race horse on a plain with a bunch of other horses and then drive up with a horse box that the race horse will associate with going to a race course, would you expect the race horse (given your extensive article reading that allows you an opinion) to leave the herd and climb into the horse box?

If not, why would you deprive the horse of it's freedom to put it there. What rights do you have over the horse? Where is the line drawn?
 
Hey Sherlock here’s a tip for you? Why not ban traffic from the roads so foxes and badgers can stroll safely and pheasants can fly without fear of being killed?

Surely worth another 100 posts from you……
 
Hey Sherlock here’s a tip for you? Why not ban traffic from the roads so foxes and badgers can stroll safely and pheasants can fly without fear of being killed?

Surely worth another 100 posts from you……
Well there is certainly a discussion to be had about ensuring more tunnel crossing points for wild animals given we kill so many on the roads each year.

You're a very unpleasant individual aren't you? Why is that?
 
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