The relationship between club and fans

[On The Bob]

I think there’s a lot of entitlement in a chunk of our fan base. You only have to look at some the posts on here after a poor result.

I understand disappointment and frustration - and believe me, I was not a happy bunny at the game on Saturday. I left on 85 minutes and went back to the pub. Had a few beers with the lads and started to move on.

A loss used to completely ruin my weekend, but I’ve mellowed out as I’ve hit my late 20’s and 30’s. Football is really important to me but there are many worse things happening in the world or that could be happening in your personal life (as I know through experience) which balances me out a lot.

I think some people are highly emotive with everything. Things are either really good or really chite, depending how well we’ve been doing.

We’ve had it better, we’ve had it worse. We are where we because that’s where we deserve to be. We have no divine right to win every game. We have no divine right to expect promotion because we’ve spunked a chunk of money on a season ticket. That’s the risk you take. If you don’t like, nobody is forcing you to invest the money.

I do think there are a number of aspects where the club could improve relations with the fan base. Some of the communication on certain issues has been abysmal.

I just think there are a multiple things going on at the minute which is upsetting a lot of people - on and off the pitch. It’s a recipe for disaster when you look recent games, topped off with the worst performance of the season on Saturday.

I can’t wait until the season ends now to be honest. We need a break, and a positve summer window to bring back a bit of positivity for next season. Ultimately, we all live in eternal hope!

 

[h_m_boro]

When I were a lad, I remember 6k at Ayresome, Lennie's final season going absolutely nowhere. Fast. Everything about match day was absolutely doomtastic.

But things improved, turned around. Just have to hope it happens again.

Problem Gibson has is that he's been left behind by billionaires moving into football, and subsequently FFP stopping any cheeky upstarts investing heavily and romping the league. Not his fault at all. 1994-2006 was a completely different era - be very surprised we could ever reach that level unless the football financial bubble burst. So we - and about 80-100 other clubs - have to live in hope that next year will "be our year". That's where football is at present. Difficult to drag the club to the next tier without taking a huge financial gamble.

 

[TeaCider]

I think there's been plenty of times it's been worse than this, even in recent history. We've had a horrendous 6 weeks, but before that the period of 18 months under Carrick had been one of the most enjoyable and successful as a Boro fan in the last few years.
It's obviously gone t*ts up since then, but I'd take this period under MC any day over the Strachan, Pulis, Woodgate or Warnock eras.

It wasn't 18 months.
It was just under 7 months from the 24th of October 2022 to the 17th of May 2023, and it was superb.

We then followed that with one of the worst starts to a season in our entire history, bounced back with a 4 week purple patch, but it's been largely poor again since then with an occasional win thrown in.

There are plenty of mitigating circumstances for why we're struggling, and Carrick shouldn't be shouldering the blame for everything, with our huge injury crisis and damagin January window, but knowing that we have injury problems and limited options doesn't make the awful performances any more enjoyable.

 

[Primus84]

I think there’s a lot of entitlement in a chunk of our fan base. You only have to look at some the posts on here after a poor result.

I understand disappointment and frustration - and believe me, I was not a happy bunny at the game on Saturday. I left on 85 minutes and went back to the pub. Had a few beers with the lads and started to move on.

A loss used to completely ruin my weekend, but I’ve mellowed out as I’ve hit my late 20’s and 30’s. Football is really important to me but there are many worse things happening in the world or that could be happening in your personal life (as I know through experience) which balances me out a lot.

I think some people are highly emotive with everything. Things are either really good or really chite, depending how well we’ve been doing.

We’ve had it better, we’ve had it worse. We are where we because that’s where we deserve to be. We have no divine right to win every game. We have no divine right to expect promotion because we’ve spunked a chunk of money on a season ticket. That’s the risk you take. If you don’t like, nobody is forcing you to invest the money.

I do think there are a number of aspects where the club could improve relations with the fan base. Some of the communication on certain issues has been abysmal.

I just think there are a multiple things going on at the minute which is upsetting a lot of people - on and off the pitch. It’s a recipe for disaster when you look recent games, topped off with the worst performance of the season on Saturday.

I can’t wait until the season ends now to be honest. We need a break, and a positve summer window to bring back a bit of positivity for next season. Ultimately, we all live in eternal hope!

Some of that "entitlement" may well come from paying top of the league prices whilst getting walloped by Plymouth Argyle 2-0 with no fight whatsoever.

Recoping millions upon millions from player sales whilst shopping in the bargain basement section and not bringing in a striker in January - again if the club communicated and explained better this might not become such an issue.

 

[HolgateCorner]

"Howevet all opinions deserve to be heard but it looks to me like the club has 'had a word' which if true is absolutely scandalous."

Er, no. And the OP is/was entirely my opinion. Not an FMTTM opinion. And certainly not an MFC opinion.

As you raise this point though, I can say with absolute certainty, in all the years I've been involved with the Admin of this board, I have never been given a steer by the club, or Rob for that matter. Rob just lets me get on with it, using my own judgement. (I'm aware that this last bit might cause some of you to choke on their weetabix)

Choking on weetabix? I shook Rob’s hand on Saturday as he was helping with the food bank collection outside the North Stand, I’ve known him for about 60 years since we were very small kids growing up in neighbouring houses in Marton, massive Boro and Teesside fan, I wouldn’t have a word said against him

 

[The Card Cheat]

It wasn't 18 months.
It was just under 7 months from the 24th of October 2022 to the 17th of May 2023, and it was superb.

We then followed that with one of the worst starts to a season in our entire history, bounced back with a 4 week purple patch, but it's been largely poor again since then with an occasional win thrown in.

There are plenty of mitigating circumstances for why we're struggling, and Carrick shouldn't be shouldering the blame for everything, with our huge injury crisis and damagin January window, but knowing that we have injury problems and limited options doesn't make the awful performances any more enjoyable.

It was a very positive first 15 months, I used 18 months broadly. Obviously last season was brilliant but this year despite a terrible start, injuries etc we were a point off the play offs and were ahead in our first Semi final in 18 years. My point being Carrick's tenure as manager has mostly (until relatively recently) been a very successful and enjoyable one and for people to say it's worse than it's ever been is nonsense in my opinion.

 

[atypical_boro]

It wasn't 18 months.
It was just under 7 months from the 24th of October 2022 to the 17th of May 2023, and it was superb.

We then followed that with one of the worst starts to a season in our entire history, bounced back with a 4 week purple patch, but it's been largely poor again since then with an occasional win thrown in.

There are plenty of mitigating circumstances for why we're struggling, and Carrick shouldn't be shouldering the blame for everything, with our huge injury crisis and damagin January window, but knowing that we have injury problems and limited options doesn't make the awful performances any more enjoyable.

Good post, and a relatable perspective imho.

But I would actually say it was 5 months. 19th October-18th March that was superb. We then won 2 of our last 8 fixtures (both home wins against mid-table sides) and messed up the play-offs. This year but, for exactly one month, it has been very, very hit and miss and without that purple match we'd have been in much bigger trouble.

We've won 1 home game in the last 3 months (and only won 5 in total in that period).

 

[On The Bob]

Some of that "entitlement" may well come from paying top of the league prices whilst getting walloped by Plymouth Argyle 2-0 with no fight whatsoever.

Recoping millions upon millions from player sales whilst shopping in the bargian basement section and not bringing in a striker in January - again if the club communicated and explained better this might not become such an issue.

Saturday was awful. We are all entitled to see something way better than we got on Saturday. That was one of the worst home performances I’ve watched in many years. I have no qualms with people getting angry after that chit show on Saturday.

The type of entitlement I’m referring to is people who spit their dummy out after a couple of defeats, threatening not to bother going to future games or saying we should get refunds for the final matches! (Appreciate that was one person, but that type of example I’m aiming at).

I’m not suggesting people who choose not to go or don’t renew are entitled. Far from it, people make personal choices for various reasons. But this attitude of some is that we should be battering teams every week. When we don’t, there’s a massive finger pointing exercise of who is to blame. It’s a never ending cycle.

We win = the football is brilliant. We lose = the football is terrible. Too much Jeckyl and Hyde with some fans.

As far as transfer policy goes, the club has communicated that since the start of the summer. We’re trying to buy younger, cheaper players with potential to sell on at a profit, rather than the old model of buying expensive has beens who are past their best. Maybe not through a personal video call to each fan from Gibbo, but Carrick and Kieron Scott have discussed this approach at various times for 8 months. The model / policy isn’t a secret.

We missed the boat last season with the play offs by not going up. Ultimately it was always going be hard to replace the goals and creativity we lost from Giles, Chuba, Archer, Ramsey. Replacing them with the same quality would have cost more money than we could afford.

We have recouped money from transfers but that money isn’t putting us in profit. Gibbo is still propping the club up financially. That money is just giving us more room against FFP.

We are very similar to a lot of other championship clubs. There’ll be at least 12 other clubs in our boat now, complaining about results, transfer policy etc. because getting out of this league is extremely hard - as we all know.

The striker situation I 100% agree on. If the right permanent transfer wasn’t available, we surely could have loaned somebody to do a job for us for 5 months. That’s been a failure.

 

[Primus84]

Saturday was awful. We are all entitled to see something way better than we got on Saturday. That was one of the worst home performances I’ve watched in many years. I have no qualms with people getting angry after that chit show on Saturday.

The type of entitlement I’m referring to is people who spit their dummy out after a couple of defeats, threatening not to bother going to future games or saying we should get refunds for the final matches! (Appreciate that was one person, but that type of example I’m aiming at).

I’m not suggesting people who choose not to go or don’t renew are entitled. Far from it, people make personal choices for various reasons. But this attitude of some is that we should be battering teams every week. When we don’t, there’s a massive finger pointing exercise of who is to blame. It’s a never ending cycle.

We win = the football is brilliant. We lose = the football is terrible. Too much Jeckyl and Hyde with some fans.

As far as transfer policy goes, the club has communicated that since the start of the summer. We’re trying to buy younger, cheaper players with potential to sell on at a profit, rather than the old model of buying expensive has beens who are past their best. Maybe not through a personal video call to each fan from Gibbo, but Carrick and Kieron Scott have discussed this approach at various times for 8 months. The model / policy isn’t a secret.

We missed the boat last season with the play offs by not going up. Ultimately it was always going be hard to replace the goals and creativity we lost from Giles, Chuba, Archer, Ramsey. Replacing them with the same quality would have cost more money than we could afford.

We have recouped money from transfers but that money isn’t putting us in profit. Gibbo is still propping the club up financially. That money is just giving us more room against FFP.

We are very similar to a lot of other championship clubs. There’ll be at least 12 other clubs in our boat now, complaining about results, transfer policy etc. because getting out of this league is extremely hard - as we all know.

The striker situation I 100% agree on. If the right permanent transfer wasn’t available, we surely could have loaned somebody to do a job for us for 5 months. That’s been a failure.

The club communicated that AFTER thousands of people once again paid top prices for a season ticket renewal in last year's early bird when it looked like we were going in the right direction only for things to change dramatically. The club are awful at communicating and seriously need to up their game - the recent comments about them learning from the season ticket debacle etc is really poor as these were all things they should have anticipated.

If that's our model then why are we charging top, top prices? Are we so badly run that to compete with the mid-table of the Championship we need to pay more than the vast majority of other clubs in the league?

The league is hard enough without shooting yourself in the foot by not signing a striker.

 

[uncle_rico]

We missed the boat last season with the play offs by not going up. Ultimately it was always going be hard to replace the goals and creativity we lost from Giles, Chuba, Archer, Ramsey. Replacing them with the same quality would have cost more money than we could afford.

I disagree. Akpom was a bit of a one off, and was always going to be impossible to replace his impact on the team and the amount of goals he scored.

As for the other three, they were all on loan, and apart from wages and modest loan fees, we could certainly afford to replace them if we went down that same route. I get why we didn't, but in doing so we ended up with inferior players. Our aim was to limit the amount of loans we got in, yet we now have four in O'Brien, Ayling, Thomas and Greenwood. All of those (except maybe Thomas) will need replacing in the summer, not to mention Howson, McNair, Dijksteel, Crooks, Rogers, probably Hackney, and we still need at least one more striker. Then there's anyone else we might sell in the summer, for example if someone comes in with a big offer for Jones or McGree then they'll be off too. So in reality we're probably worse off by choosing not to go down the loan route, and taking punts on unknowns, who are on the whole not good enough for a team with our aspirations. The club's policy is admirable, and hindsight is a wonderful thing, but we are no further forward that we were last summer, if anything we've gone backwards.

 

[atypical_boro]

I disagree. Akpom was a bit of a one off, and was always going to be impossible to replace his impact on the team and the amount of goals he scored.

As for the other three, they were all on loan, and apart from wages and modest loan fees, we could certainly afford to replace them if we went down that same route. I get why we didn't, but in doing so we ended up with inferior players. Our aim was to limit the amount of loans we got in, yet we now have four in O'Brien, Ayling, Thomas and Greenwood. All of those (except maybe Thomas) will need replacing in the summer, not to mention Howson, McNair, Dijksteel, Crooks, Rogers, probably Hackney, and we still need at least one more striker. Then there's anyone else we might sell in the summer, for example if someone comes in with a big offer for Jones or McGree then they'll be off too. So in reality we're probably worse off by choosing not to go down the loan route, and taking punts on unknowns, who are on the whole not good enough for a team with our aspirations. The club's policy is admirable, and hindsight is a wonderful thing, but we are no further forward that we were last summer, if anything we've gone backwards.

I do think a lot of the lads we brought in last summer may be more effective next season, after a year of bedding in.

But then we have a nervous summer ahead in terms of who we lose. I'd expect there to be interest in Hackney, Rav, Fry, McGree, Jones, Dieng and Forss. Most of whom won't be easily replaced either. We'll also likely lose McNair and maybe Howson.

 

[AytonMews]

You need everything to align at the same time to get out of this league. Last season was our best shot in years and we might not get another one for some time.

We had the perfect mix of -

- Solid core of experienced players at this level - Howson, Lenihan, Smith etc

- Emerging talent that we won’t be able to keep hold of for long - Hackney

- Akpom having the goalscoring season of his life

- A group of quality loans in Giles, Ramsey, Archer



So near, yet so far.

 

[TeaCider]

It was a very positive first 15 months, I used 18 months broadly. Obviously last season was brilliant but this year despite a terrible start, injuries etc we were a point off the play offs and were ahead in our first Semi final in 18 years. My point being Carrick's tenure as manager has mostly (until relatively recently) been a very successful and enjoyable one and for people to say it's worse than it's ever been is nonsense in my opinion.

I just can't see how anybody can try and include this season in "very positive".

At the halfway point, we were 11th, had lost as many as we'd won and had scored less than a goal a game at the Riverside.

The most favourable cup run we've had in decades, which has let the more hopelessly optimistic spin it as a major achievement to reach the semi-finals, when we should have won every single tie in that run up to the Chelsea match. They were all poor, struggling teams and most of them were from the lower divisions.

It was a bang average season before it got even worse.

 

[r00fie1]

Whilst every club has costs — does the fact that we have the sixth-highest average attendance this season in the Championship not impact our income?
People spend money in the stadium as well as the entrance fee: the shop, concourses, hospitality.
We all know that SKY and TV have completely ****d up domestic football and, skewed it, such that there is definitely not a “level playing-field”.
But, surely we are in a better financial place than some of those others in this table?

 

[Nano]

Hypothetically speaking, would posters still write aggressively negative posts, if they knew it might result in Gibson putting the club up for sale?

I used to think the sun shone out of his ****. As I have got older and I have thought about things more, realised that he isn't some genius that gets everything right and other than him being a Boro fan he definitely isn't "one of us". Things like the quotes below that he allegedly said, his letter to Boro fans telling them to support a Tory etc show that he does things that are right for him without thinking about the people that are fans of the club. It feels like we're constantly having our eyes gouged out with prices for tickets, the merchandise is really low quality and never in stock. I can forgive most of the decisions he makes that are football related because it's not a science and it's easy to make a wrong decision but I no longer trust him to do the right thing for the fans. He's almost completely stopped communicating with the fans as well. It's been a long time since the things that he did banked him all that goodwill and for me the 2nd half of his tenure is much more relevant going forwards than the 1st half. When he took charge and through the 90s we had success because he was able to outspend everyone else. With hindsight I don't think he made better decisions but he threw enough money at it that we could compete above the level that we should have been. Now that he doesn't have the money to throw about (his peers being far wealthier and the FFP restrictions) means we are relying on his decision making and that isn't somewhere where I believe he has an advantage.

“Almost as soon as the meeting opened, the representatives of the Thai Banks were shouted at by Mr Steve Gibson, a director of the Development Corporation, stating that ‘… I will not recognise the agenda. This meeting will not last five minutes …’ before trying to throw the agenda across the table at the Thai Banks’ representatives. The Development Corporation’s team, then 12, walked out of the meeting after less than half an hour in the meeting room.”

"You're shaking your head, you'll be F***ing shaking it again soon, I'll be F***ing shaking it."

"I want your walls and I want your eyes out of your head; I want the F***ing roof off your house; I want your kids out of private school; I want no shoes on your F***ing feet; that's what is going to happen."

"Do you understand that? You F***ing answer the question. You've got 21 F***ing days and Armageddon is coming."

I still love everything he did for the club and he put us on the map but if he left now I don't think it would be a disaster. We might sink lower, we might go higher but the same would be true with him in charge. The major benefit of having him is I think we have a floor and we won't sink below it. I.e. he won't see us go out of business. I don't want him to leave though. I want him to accept he has made mistakes and concentrate on improving things off the pitch as well as on it. The fans are more important than Steve Gibson and improving things for the fans is something that he can definitely control. He is never going to have us winning the PL but he could make a huge change to the way he runs the club/fan relationship very easily.

 

[On The Bob]

The club communicated that AFTER thousands of people once again paid top prices for a season ticket renewal in last year's early bird when it looked like we were going in the right direction only for things to change dramatically. The club are awful at communicating and seriously need to up their game - the recent comments about them learning from the season ticket debacle etc is really poor as these were all things they should have anticipated.

If that's our model then why are we charging top, top prices? Are we so badly run that to compete with the mid-table of the Championship we need to pay more than the vast majority of other clubs in the league?

The league is hard enough without shooting yourself in the foot by not signing a striker.

Find me another club in the championship who tells their fanbase their Transfer strategy ahead of a summer window? Why would our club be any different?

At the time, we won’t have knew the strategy because we may have been in The PL or Championship. I totally agree, with certain things, the club have been awful from a communication perspective. I don’t think the transfer policy is one of those issues. The circumstances were unknown, and I don’t think any club will necessarily reveal their master plan to the masses.

I can’t disagree on the pricing. I think we pay the price (literally) for our legacy of poor decisions since the last relegation. We’ve obviously structured the club on a certain financial model and getting x amount from Gate Receipts. I also think a lot of the concessions we give (GRFZ for example) props the price up for others.

Likewise, I don’t think the club were planning on a mid table finish either. Albeit, with some of the additions, they must have expected Carrick to work miracles with a lack of strikers.

I’m not really here to get in a pricing debate. I avoided it at the time. I can’t disagree with many of the opinions on it, but the main thing I take away is that we’re still running at a loss (like the majority of football clubs). If people want more / better investment on one hand but want the club to reduce income on ticket sales at the same time, it feels like those are two issues that work against each other as it gives us less FFP wiggle room.

I don’t know what the answers are. It’s ultimately a balancing act.

 

[Primus84]

Find me another club in the championship who tells their fanbase their Transfer strategy ahead of a summer window? Why would our club be any different?

At the time, we won’t have knew the strategy because we may have been in The PL or Championship. I totally agree, with certain things, the club have been awful from a communication perspective. I don’t think the transfer policy is one of those issues. The circumstances were unknown, and I don’t think any club will necessarily reveal their master plan to the masses.

I can’t disagree on the pricing. I think we pay the price (literally) for our legacy of poor decisions since the last relegation. We’ve obviously structured the club on a certain financial model and getting x amount from Gate Receipts. I also think a lot of the concessions we give (GRFZ for example) props the price up for others.

Likewise, I don’t think the club were planning on a mid table finish either. Albeit, with some of the additions, they must have expected Carrick to work miracles with a lack of strikers.

I’m not really here to get in a pricing debate. I avoided it at the time. I can’t disagree with many of the opinions on it, but the main thing I take away is that we’re still running at a loss (like the majority of football clubs). If people want more / better investment on one hand but want the club to reduce income on ticket sales at the same time, it feels like those are two issues that work against each other as it gives us less FFP wiggle room.

I don’t know what the answers are. It’s ultimately a balancing act.

I'm not asking for in depth information - in fact if our strategy matches our position as one of the most expensive season tickets then that's fine.

But when you depart from the existing strategy to a new strategy - selling off millions of pounds of players and replacing them with bargain basement options - then the club needs to be more upfront if, at very least, it doesn't want the fans to be unhappy and complain. I'm not asking for information in extreme depth - when was the last time Gibson actually spoke to the fans properly rather than with the exclusive clique events that are put on?

If you charge top dollar and provide rubbish then people are going to call you out on it. Expectations, rightly or wrongly, are set by factors such as how much fans are being asked to pay.

 

[LessoftheLip]

Find me another club in the championship who tells their fanbase their Transfer strategy ahead of a summer window? Why would our club be any different?

I don't think there's many fans who demand the club communicates its transfer strategy before they decide if they are going to commit to purchase a season ticket but they are looking for some 'intent'.

But I would take issue with a number posters who are certain that we are in a transition period despite the club never confirming such.

Further, the same posters are insistent that next season we have a considerable 'war chest' and the supporters must stick with it. How would they know?

 

[Humpty]

I used to think the sun shone out of his ****. As I have got older and I have thought about things more, realised that he isn't some genius that gets everything right and other than him being a Boro fan he definitely isn't "one of us". Things like the quotes below that he allegedly said, his letter to Boro fans telling them to support a Tory etc show that he does things that are right for him without thinking about the people that are fans of the club. It feels like we're constantly having our eyes gouged out with prices for tickets, the merchandise is really low quality and never in stock. I can forgive most of the decisions he makes that are football related because it's not a science and it's easy to make a wrong decision but I no longer trust him to do the right thing for the fans. He's almost completely stopped communicating with the fans as well. It's been a long time since the things that he did banked him all that goodwill and for me the 2nd half of his tenure is much more relevant going forwards than the 1st half. When he took charge and through the 90s we had success because he was able to outspend everyone else. With hindsight I don't think he made better decisions but he threw enough money at it that we could compete above the level that we should have been. Now that he doesn't have the money to throw about (his peers being far wealthier and the FFP restrictions) means we are relying on his decision making and that isn't somewhere where I believe he has an advantage.

“Almost as soon as the meeting opened, the representatives of the Thai Banks were shouted at by Mr Steve Gibson, a director of the Development Corporation, stating that ‘… I will not recognise the agenda. This meeting will not last five minutes …’ before trying to throw the agenda across the table at the Thai Banks’ representatives. The Development Corporation’s team, then 12, walked out of the meeting after less than half an hour in the meeting room.”

"You're shaking your head, you'll be F***ing shaking it again soon, I'll be F***ing shaking it."

"I want your walls and I want your eyes out of your head; I want the F***ing roof off your house; I want your kids out of private school; I want no shoes on your F***ing feet; that's what is going to happen."

"Do you understand that? You F***ing answer the question. You've got 21 F***ing days and Armageddon is coming."

I still love everything he did for the club and he put us on the map but if he left now I don't think it would be a disaster. We might sink lower, we might go higher but the same would be true with him in charge. The major benefit of having him is I think we have a floor and we won't sink below it. I.e. he won't see us go out of business. I don't want him to leave though. I want him to accept he has made mistakes and concentrate on improving things off the pitch as well as on it. The fans are more important than Steve Gibson and improving things for the fans is something that he can definitely control. He is never going to have us winning the PL but he could make a huge change to the way he runs the club/fan relationship very easily.

If you park your personal opinions of him as a person to one side (i don't particularly agree with some of them) do you think it's likely we'll find another benefactor that's willing to unconditionally gift us £21 million a year out of his own pocket just to stand still without any further guarantee of promotion?

 

[The Card Cheat]

I just can't see how anybody can try and include this season in "very positive".

At the halfway point, we were 11th, had lost as many as we'd won and had scored less than a goal a game at the Riverside.

The most favourable cup run we've had in decades, which has let the more hopelessly optimistic spin it as a major achievement to reach the semi-finals, when we should have won every single tie in that run up to the Chelsea match. They were all poor, struggling teams and most of them were from the lower divisions.

It was a bang average season before it got even worse.

It's obviously not been a good season, largely thanks to a terrible start and a catastrophic last six weeks. I'm just trying to get a sense of perspective regarding the idea that this is one of the worst times to be a Boro fan.
If you'd asked pretty much any fan after the Chelsea then Millwall games six short weeks ago whether they were happy with how Carrick was doing they'd have said definitely yes.
I think even you said you'd potentially give Carrick a B for how this season was going at that point!
It's crap at the moment but I'm confident we'll turn it around.
Eventually...