These people

[SmallTown]

You can’t come on here telling people fu and calling them mofos just because you don’t agree with their opinion. I don’t always agree with you but I have never spoken to you or any other board member like that.

You can, if you can see that person is being selfish and caring more about his Christmas holiday than the rights of thousands of workers.

If you can't see WHY everyone is so upset you're taking this stance then there's no hope for you is there? My belief is you do understand why people get upset it selfishness and contempt for other humans, but chose to do it anyway

 

[FatCat]

Thats fair point - but you can chose not to respond in kind.

You can, if you can see that person is being selfish and caring more about his Christmas holiday than the rights of thousands of workers.

If you can't see WHY everyone is so upset you're taking this stance then there's no hope for you is there? My belief is you do understand why people get upset it selfishness and contempt for other humans, but chose to do it anyway

It’s not justified and never can be - if I spoke to someone like that I would be banned-small town - if someone spoke to you like taht we’d never hear the last of it!

I was initially frustrated for myself yes as it was just another blow in what has been a crap few years for most people - a targeted approach to ruin yet another Christmas did annoy me.

The conversation has moved on and people are discussing what they think is best - I’ve explained I don’t think striking is the answer nor giving everyone what they want is affordable - it’s just my opinion there are plenty of other opinions - that’s all fine. What’s not fine is abusive posting!

 

[WeeGord]

It’s not justified and never can be - if I spoke to someone like that I would be banned-small town - if someone spoke to you like taht we’d never hear the last of it!

I was initially frustrated for myself yes as it was just another blow in what has been a crap few years for most people - a targeted approach to ruin yet another Christmas did annoy me.

The conversation has moved on and people are discussing what they think is best - I’ve explained I don’t think striking is the answer nor giving everyone what they want is affordable - it’s just my opinion there are plenty of other opinions - that’s all fine. What’s not fine is abusive posting!

Poor FatCat getting upset because of a couple of swear words. Try not to be too sensitive about it, I'm sure you hear much worse at games, down the pub etc.

Now if the millions and millions of people you show little regard for only had a few swear words to worry about rather than the very real threat of cold, hunger and homelessness etc wouldn't the UK be a much better place?

Instead of getting all sensitive perhaps you should think of those worse off than you and how them exercising the only option they have through striking. You haven't and won't though because it'll inconvenience you.

 

[sherlock]

It’s not justified and never can be - if I spoke to someone like that I would be banned-small town - if someone spoke to you like taht we’d never hear the last of it!

I was initially frustrated for myself yes as it was just another blow in what has been a crap few years for most people - a targeted approach to ruin yet another Christmas did annoy me.

The conversation has moved on and people are discussing what they think is best - I’ve explained I don’t think striking is the answer nor giving everyone what they want is affordable - it’s just my opinion there are plenty of other opinions - that’s all fine. What’s not fine is abusive posting!

So once again you say they can’t be given their needed pay rise but they shouldn’t strike. Yet they should fight for their rights.

Explain how that works then?

 

[Uwefuchs]

This is the latest offer for staff from the Train operators, bare in mind some of these staff will be on little more than minimum wage:

These proposals set out a two-year pay package which provides 4% increases for years 2022 & 2023. These are way below the current and predicted future rates of inflation and equate to a 20% pay cut..

The proposals are also conditional on your union accepting the following:

1. That all Workforce Changes are accepted without reservation or industrial action;

2. Closure of all ticket offices and displacement of all retail staff;

3. Creation of a new multi-skilled station grades;

4. A mass job severance programme;

5. Driver-Only Operation of trains in all companies and on all passenger services;

6. New arrangements for mandatory Sunday working;

7. A review of all On-Train Catering services leading to cutbacks in provision and jobs;

8. Review of Fleet grades' working practices and depot driving;

9. Flexible working contracts, working and rosters;

10. Mandatory adoption of new technology with no payment;

11. New Attendance Management scheme;

12. Review of Stood Off arrangements;

13. New annual leave and sick pay arrangements.

And remember this is what staff are being asked to concede to get pay offer, so for example changes to annual leave and sick pay won't be changes which benefit the employee, there'll be changes which benefit the employer.

Many of them are being asked to sacrifice their own jobs in the near future, those that survive the cull will be asked to work more hours, more weekends with cuts to their terms and conditions and then be financially worse off.

Apart from striking how else can workers stand up to this?

 

[sherlock]

This is the latest offer for staff from the Train operators, bare in mind some of these staff will be on little more than minimum wage:

These proposals set out a two-year pay package which provides 4% increases for years 2022 & 2023. These are way below the current and predicted future rates of inflation and equate to a 20% pay cut..

The proposals are also conditional on your union accepting the following:

1. That all Workforce Changes are accepted without reservation or industrial action;

2. Closure of all ticket offices and displacement of all retail staff;

3. Creation of a new multi-skilled station grades;

4. A mass job severance programme;

5. Driver-Only Operation of trains in all companies and on all passenger services;

6. New arrangements for mandatory Sunday working;

7. A review of all On-Train Catering services leading to cutbacks in provision and jobs;

8. Review of Fleet grades' working practices and depot driving;

9. Flexible working contracts, working and rosters;

10. Mandatory adoption of new technology with no payment;

11. New Attendance Management scheme;

12. Review of Stood Off arrangements;

13. New annual leave and sick pay arrangements.

And remember this is what staff are being asked to concede to get pay offer, so for example changes to annual leave and sick pay won't be changes which benefit the employee, there'll be changes which benefit the employer.

Many of them are being asked to sacrifice their own jobs in the near future, those that survive the cull will be asked to work more hours, more weekends with cuts to their terms and conditions and then be financially worse off.

Apart from striking how else can workers stand up to this?

It’s an insulting ‘offer’ and industrial action is completely justified.

People like FatCat really astound me. They become offended at the slightest abuse or criticism, yet stand up for a government that is literally abusing millions of people on a daily basis. Weird.

 

[Uwefuchs]

It’s an insulting ‘offer’ and industrial action is completely justified.

People like FatCat really astound me. They become offended at the slightest abuse or criticism, yet stand up for a government that is literally abusing millions of people on a daily basis. Weird.

The mainstream media spend a lot of time and money turning working people against each other and it works.

Fatcat, I'm gonna lose a lot of money over Xmas if the strikes take place. Its a lot of money that I can't afford to lose but sometimes you've got to stand up for yourself. I've had Xmas where I couldn't spend it with family due to covid and it was horrible but this year will be far worse. Xmas is a financial struggle at the best of times without losing a weeks pay and having no overtime. I'd rather be forced to get a bus instead of train versus having no money at Xmas.

Hopefuply you'll be able to make alternative arrangements, no one is wanting to ruin Xmas but the government have allowed this to drag on for a year now, we've cancelled strikes in good faith recently and its got us no where.

 

[festa5]

Just frustrating that fatcat (and those who think like him) are directing their anger/annoyance at the wrong people.

The Tories have long seen the public sector as a soft touch and an easy way to make "savings". Largely driven by their ideological obsession of a small state and refusal to take money off the rich.

Unfortunately for them you can only go back to the well so many times. Now it's dry. Unfortunately for the country we're governed by a load of self serving millionaires. They're incompetent, completely lacking in imagination and unable to plan for the future. Those chickens have come home to roost.

The Tories do not have any solutions, they've spent 12 years bleeding the country dry. No growth, no investment, no clue. Their only solution to the crisis is to keep on cutting and double down on their tired and failed policies. That's all they have.

The more disruption these strikes cause the better as far as I'm concerned. In an ideal world they'd bring the country to it's knees and force a general election. The longer it goes on and more and more workforces strike (and there's no sign this government will cave, they're too arrogant, so it's going to be interesting) the more damage it does to them.

I'd rather we hit rock bottom now than have another 2 years of death by a thousand Tory cuts and end up in the same place anyway.

 

[SmallTown]

It’s not justified and never can be - if I spoke to someone like that I would be banned-small town - if someone spoke to you like taht we’d never hear the last of it!

I was initially frustrated for myself yes as it was just another blow in what has been a crap few years for most people - a targeted approach to ruin yet another Christmas did annoy me.

The conversation has moved on and people are discussing what they think is best - I’ve explained I don’t think striking is the answer nor giving everyone what they want is affordable - it’s just my opinion there are plenty of other opinions - that’s all fine. What’s not fine is abusive posting!

The problem is you started from a position of pure selfishness. And you offer nothing else other than whining about striking. So people extrapolate that to you not caring about the working man. Perhaps we should be kind and say you don't care about it enough to not put up with mild inconvenience to yourself in order for these people to fight for their rights.

The main issue with me is that you're complaining about the one tool workers have to deal with unfair practices, agreeing that they are being treat unfairly and odnt offere anything else. You know strikes can work and you know these people are being badly treated. But you don't want to suffer a mild inconvenience to help them address this

 

[SmallTown]

Poor FatCat getting upset because of a couple of swear words. Try not to be too sensitive about it,

He's not being upset. As a few have mentioned on here it's fake outrage. It's becoming the lead trait of Tories these days: Start a conversation that invites anger, and division and hatred. Then whine when that hatred gets directed at you. It's such a poor way to behave. At least own your scummy opinions, not whine when someone questions them

 

[FatCat]

He's not being upset. As a few have mentioned on here it's fake outrage. It's becoming the lead trait of Tories these days: Start a conversation that invites anger, and division and hatred. Then whine when that hatred gets directed at you. It's such a poor way to behave. At least own your scummy opinions, not whine when someone questions them

For the love of god - he’s allowed to question them no issue with that - it’s the abuse !! You were trying to say it’s justified earlier - it’s really not!

 

[SmallTown]

For the love of god - he’s allowed to question them no issue with that - it’s the abuse !! You were trying to say it’s justified earlier - it’s really not!

You can see how people get upset with your views though, right? Especially on a website predominantly populated by left leaning people who care for others. Not referring to myself here of course, but others certainly do care about their fellow man. So you can't be TOO shocked that a post that attacks working people gets a negative reaction

 

[sherlock]

You can see how people get upset with your views though, right? Especially on a website predominantly populated by left leaning people who care for others. Not referring to myself here of course, but others certainly do care about their fellow man. So you can't be TOO shocked that a post that attacks working people gets a negative reaction

I'd say that's what he counted on to be honest....

 

[FatCat]

You can see how people get upset with your views though, right? Especially on a website predominantly populated by left leaning people who care for others. Not referring to myself here of course, but others certainly do care about their fellow man. So you can't be TOO shocked that a post that attacks working people gets a negative reaction

He’s more than entitled to his opinion he just needs to express it properly.

 

[sherlock]

He’s more than entitled to his opinion he just needs to express it properly.

Why have you randomly started talking about yourself in the third person?

 

[r00fie1]

Play the victim
Me me me

 

[NoloBoro]

Yes sorry if I don’t want Christmas messed up by some idiots trying to cause maximum disruption!

I’m not spoiling for a fight. However, from the tone of most of your posts, I would imagine you voted for the idiots causing maximum disruption.
Do yourself a favour, have a good look at the whole situation before making comments on something you know little about.

 

[gregorgregorovich]

I’m not spoiling for a fight. However, from the tone of most of your posts, I would imagine you voted for the idiots causing maximum disruption.
Do yourself a favour, have a good look at the whole situation before making comments on something you know little about.

Take out the word "little" and substitute "nothing".

 

[NYboro]

The Tories do not have any solutions, they've spent 12 years bleeding the country dry. No growth, no investment, no clue. Their only solution to the crisis is to keep on cutting and double down on their tired and failed policies. That's all they have.

In reality it's a lot longer than 12 years. All started by Thatcher selling off everything.

 

[gregorgregorovich]

In reality it's a lot longer than 12 years. All started by Thatcher selling off everything.

Don't tell Sid.