Tory Voters

Borobuddah said:
Thanks for your concern, but I already judge myself, that’s why I have reflected on my leave vote.

Obviously I question my logic and reasoning, I may have demonstrated that already?

of course your politics and philosophy are important, given the last point about all brexiteers are stupid as the Title of a continued discussion?
If you just want an argument about that then count me out
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I don't want an argument. I'd like a discussion because, in my view, it's about much more than just that particular vote.

You have demonstrated you have questioned your logic and reasoning. The question I would ask is, how thoroughly and will it equip you better for the future?

I could easily have been in the same position as you, by the way. As I hope to demonstrate.
 
Crack on.

my suspicions were aroused when you said you weren’t trying to belittle me etc, no one had suggested you were. You have taken quite a patronising position, don’t you think?
 
Borobuddah said:
Crack on.

my suspicions were aroused when you said you weren’t trying to belittle me etc, no one had suggested you were. You have taken quite a patronising position, don’t you think?
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Can't rule that out. It's an accusation I've had levelled at me many times on this subject over the last four years.

I think it's wrong, but that could be me being an arrogant tosser.

There is a problem with the written word. Tone is difficult to decipher. If you knew me, or we were discussing this face to face you'd probably see I'm not intending that. At most it's gentle ribbing.

But mainly the problem is that Leave voters don't actually understand where I am coming from. The fault for that lies with me just as much as with them, if not more.

Judgement of me being patronising, insulting, arrogant etc. really ought to be reserved until people hear my arguments in full, because it is just possible I am privy to information or knowledge that others aren't. Is that a reasonable point?
 
r00fie1 said:
Its unfair to dawb people with the same brush.
I will always stand my own ground, but saying everybody who voted for X, Y or Z = whatever, is neither scientific nor objective.

There are all sorts of reasons people vote and often attitudes and experience effects priorities and they have the choice to vote for who they like.

Thats not to say I have to agree with who they vote for [right or wrong].

None of us know the full ins and outs of other peoples circumstances, and we have no right to deny someone that which we [as a civilised society] have in place, to care for others as well as ourselves.

The day when clinical practitioners decide who to treat dependent on their voting habits, reminds me of how Hitlers SS used to arbitrarily decide who [as they alighted from the cattle trucks] would be lead into the gas chambers first.
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Totally agree.
 
Tory voters south of Watford are to be despised.

Tory voters north of Watford are to be pitied. And despised.
 
I think many of you are over-analysing what happened in December. If you live in England then the realistic choices were -

Conservative - standing largely on "getting Brexit done" and spending more on the North of England. Or

Labour - with a huge and complicated manifesto, offering all sorts to just about everyone. An unclear message on Brexit, and no immediacy, and maybe another referendum. Or

LibDem - pledged to ignore the referendum result as though 2016 hadn't happened.

So, in retrospect, it wasn't surprising that a lot of people dismissed the LibDems and Labour because they just wanted an end to the political turmoil over Brexit and to be able to get on with their lives. And, strange as it might seem, a lot of people vote for what they think is the best choice for the country, not just the best choice for themselves. "No one ever went broke overestimating the intelligence of the people" is as good an axiom as there ever was in politics.

Labour's route back to power involves moving the party to the right, abandoning the Islington Intelligentsia, making an unambitious, clear and patently affordable manifesto and dealing with a ton of baggage that they've been hauling around for a decade or more. Keir Starmer's firing of Rebecca LB is a start, but he can't afford to split the party because that'll end in defeat for both versions of Labour. The Covid-19 thing is a godsend to Labour because it gives them a free hit at the Tories every week while the Labour party is in pieces on the garage floor. Every week that goes by shows how inept Boris and co are, and there'll be an inquiry at some point that lays bare how poor the Covid response has been. These are great cards for Keir Starmer. For the time being, I think he's doing the right thing. A few by-elections in the next 12 months might show whether he's on the right path, or whether the public has just had enough of Labour talking a good game but staying unelectable.
 
Evil said:
I voted Tory, and yes, I am disgusted with many aspects of this. But you cannot lump everyone in the same pot, its a pretty abhorrent personality trait actually.

I've not furloughed my staff, taken anything from the government and our business is haemorrhaging cash, so keep your virtuous opinions to yourself.
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Why haven't you taken anything from government?!?
 
Same_as_before said:
I have no doubt my leave vote was the right decision. As was my vote Labour in the last election.

The Remainers jabber on about the size of the market , if you exclude vehicles I have no doubt we import far more from China, have a look at the side of the boxes.

We are going to Tenerife for 10 days in October as we always do, I don't need a visa.

I no longer have to worry about yet another layer of government .

Without Germany it will collapse. Looking at the major logistics centres locally it is full of Rumanian Greek and West African staff, good luck to them , it's opened oportunitues to those outside the EC, it will become the norm.

It has taken off the shackles of the EC
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Strange brew
 
Soutra said:
I think many of you are over-analysing what happened in December. If you live in England then the realistic choices were -

Conservative - standing largely on "getting Brexit done" and spending more on the North of England. Or

Labour - with a huge and complicated manifesto, offering all sorts to just about everyone. An unclear message on Brexit, and no immediacy, and maybe another referendum. Or

LibDem - pledged to ignore the referendum result as though 2016 hadn't happened.

So, in retrospect, it wasn't surprising that a lot of people dismissed the LibDems and Labour because they just wanted an end to the political turmoil over Brexit and to be able to get on with their lives. And, strange as it might seem, a lot of people vote for what they think is the best choice for the country, not just the best choice for themselves. "No one ever went broke overestimating the intelligence of the people" is as good an axiom as there ever was in politics.

Labour's route back to power involves moving the party to the right, abandoning the Islington Intelligentsia, making an unambitious, clear and patently affordable manifesto and dealing with a ton of baggage that they've been hauling around for a decade or more. Keir Starmer's firing of Rebecca LB is a start, but he can't afford to split the party because that'll end in defeat for both versions of Labour. The Covid-19 thing is a godsend to Labour because it gives them a free hit at the Tories every week while the Labour party is in pieces on the garage floor. Every week that goes by shows how inept Boris and co are, and there'll be an inquiry at some point that lays bare how poor the Covid response has been. These are great cards for Keir Starmer. For the time being, I think he's doing the right thing. A few by-elections in the next 12 months might show whether he's on the right path, or whether the public has just had enough of Labour talking a good game but staying unelectable.
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Yeah, best keep intelligence out of politics!
 
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