Union Flag

I find being "proud" of a particular piece of land that you relate to because of an accident of birth, or a raggy bit of cloth that represents that piece of land, quite sad really but hey ho, that's just my view. If I relate to anything now, it's being European, and no dodgy referendum is going to change that
 
I find being "proud" of a particular piece of land that you relate to because of an accident of birth, or a raggy bit of cloth that represents that piece of land, quite sad really but hey ho, that's just my view. If I relate to anything now, it's being European, and no dodgy referendum is going to change that
I don't know. I think you can be proud of it. I know its random choice but if a nation achieves certain things it can fill me with pride. Of course the flip side of that is happening right now. When a nation turns itself into a pariah and becomes insular you can be embarrassed by it.
 
I find being "proud" of a particular piece of land that you relate to because of an accident of birth, or a raggy bit of cloth that represents that piece of land, quite sad really but hey ho, that's just my view. If I relate to anything now, it's being European, and no dodgy referendum is going to change that
I can be proud of the people I have some association with. They are numerically mainly from the nation I live in, but I'm also proud of friends and relatives across the world.
 
The best form of patriotism is to look after your compatriots. You know make sure people have enough food, good income and a fair opportunity. That's the antithesis of this Tory government, they are the least patriotic government in my lifetime

A flag is just a piece of cloth and showing deference to a piece of cloth is a bit, erm, 'primitive'. Ditto showing deference to a monarch while ignoring the citizens, which isn't just anti-patriotic but utterly hypocritical.
 
The Song Of The Six Million

It didn’t begin with uniform wearers,
armband bearers, that’s just where it ended,
with proud keyholders to blandly
wicked gas chambers.

It started on the streets, in the shops
and bars, with late night whispers
and jokes about the Jews and who’s
to blame for all the ills of the day.

It was carried along
like a smile, like a song
by the middle-of-the-roaders,
the go-with-the-flow-ers,
the deaf, dumb and blind
and the want-a-quiet-lifers.

And no-one really noticed
unless they were called Cohen,
or Meyer or Levin or Stein
but everybody knew
about the over-sensitive Jews,
touchy and greedy
and have you ever noticed
how they don’t look like us?

And so like a snowball in winter
it rolled merrily along,
like a smile, like a song,
this wonderful new truth
that would make the nation strong,
this great Fatherland
with its old ways and new,
a promised land for all –
well, all but the Jew.

It didn’t start with Panzers
rampaging through Paris,
nor ghettos, nor mass graves,
children cowering in attics.

No human skin lampshades
in the fabled masterplan,
but call people sub-human
and yourself Superman,
and it’s only going one way.

Down a dead end street
where grandmas and grandads,
aunties and uncles, half-starved children
and their mums and dads
are lined up against a wall,
the lucky ones spared
a last train ride to a death camp
nestled in the countryside.

Their voices ghost out
from bulletholed walls,
from obscene trenches,
from railtracks leading
to Arbeit Macht Frei,
a laughable legacy
from a sick joke world.

Six million strangled battlecries
to beware ignorance and fear:
“We too thought
it could never happen here.”
 
The best form of patriotism is to look after your compatriots. You know make sure people have enough food, good income and a fair opportunity. That's the antithesis of this Tory government, they are the least patriotic government in my lifetime

A flag is just a piece of cloth and showing deference to a piece of cloth is a bit, erm, 'primitive'. Ditto showing deference to a monarch while ignoring the citizens, which isn't just anti-patriotic but utterly hypocritical.
Actually I disagree. Flags can be powerful. Flags can be something to get behind. A symbol of an ideology. Its an easy short hand for believing in a cause.

Which is why the far right love them. Which is why ours is being hijacked by the current Junta
 
Actually I disagree. Flags can be powerful. Flags can be something to get behind. A symbol of an ideology. Its an easy short hand for believing in a cause.
Yeah, it is perceived as shorthand for ideology by some, I see through that, it's a piece of cloth to me and an irrelevance in my life. I do find it a bit embarrassing at times when I see flag-shaggers wrapping themselves in it and waving it about in deference to a monarch or whatever.
 
Yeah, it is perceived as shorthand for ideology by some, I see through that, it's a piece of cloth to me and an irrelevance in my life. I do find it a bit embarrassing at times when I see flag-shaggers wrapping themselves in it and waving it about in deference to a monarch or whatever.
I think it's the book Sapiens where they explain how use of language and symbols has allowed the human race to have groups of people so much larger than any other species. You can write a text or create a piece of fabric and convince anyone in the world to follow it. So they are powerful. They can symbolise freedom and, as is the case with the current Union flag, they can symbolise the very opposite.
 
The high water mark for me and pride in my country, what it is and what it can be, was the opening ceremony of the 2012 Olympics. It portrayed us, slightly flatteringly even at the time, as an open welcoming people with a proud history but looking forward and outward. Now in 2021 we are much more inward looking and a lot of people seem to be aspiring to recreate a past that never was. We seem a country still oddly obsessed with WW2. A country that perpetuates privilege and shuns, punishes and stigmatises the poor, the disadvantaged and the other. A country led by a buffoon controlled by the rich.

There's not much to be proud of in 2021.

The Union Flag has never been more anachronistic. Union, what Union?

And yet I am proud to be English and European, I know that the youth of this country will make my country a better place, will make this country all that it can be. Our leaders are hiding behind those flags. Look at us, look at how much we love our country, look at my flag! Don't even mention the national anthem. We criticise anyone who won't wear a poppy but leave our ex-servicemen (whose sacrifice the poppy is meant to symbolise) to poverty and mental illness.

There's not much left to be proud of. But I am proud that I am English, I am European also and a member of Homo Sapiens just another monkey on a blue jewel spinning carelessly in the void. I don't need a flag on my Twitter profile to prove it.
 
The high water mark for me and pride in my country, what it is and what it can be, was the opening ceremony of the 2012 Olympics. It portrayed us, slightly flatteringly even at the time, as an open welcoming people with a proud history but looking forward and outward. Now in 2021 we are much more inward looking and a lot of people seem to be aspiring to recreate a past that never was. We seem a country still oddly obsessed with WW2. A country that perpetuates privilege and shuns, punishes and stigmatises the poor, the disadvantaged and the other. A country led by a buffoon controlled by the rich.

There's not much to be proud of in 2021.

The Union Flag has never been more anachronistic. Union, what Union?

And yet I am proud to be English and European, I know that the youth of this country will make my country a better place, will make this country all that it can be. Our leaders are hiding behind those flags. Look at us, look at how much we love our country, look at my flag! Don't even mention the national anthem. We criticise anyone who won't wear a poppy but leave our ex-servicemen (whose sacrifice the poppy is meant to symbolise) to poverty and mental illness.

There's not much left to be proud of. But I am proud that I am English, I am European also and a member of Homo Sapiens just another monkey on a blue jewel spinning carelessly in the void. I don't need a flag on my Twitter profile to prove it.
Beautifully written.
 
The high water mark for me and pride in my country, what it is and what it can be, was the opening ceremony of the 2012 Olympics. It portrayed us, slightly flatteringly even at the time, as an open welcoming people with a proud history but looking forward and outward. Now in 2021 we are much more inward looking and a lot of people seem to be aspiring to recreate a past that never was. We seem a country still oddly obsessed with WW2. A country that perpetuates privilege and shuns, punishes and stigmatises the poor, the disadvantaged and the other. A country led by a buffoon controlled by the rich.

There's not much to be proud of in 2021.

The Union Flag has never been more anachronistic. Union, what Union?

And yet I am proud to be English and European, I know that the youth of this country will make my country a better place, will make this country all that it can be. Our leaders are hiding behind those flags. Look at us, look at how much we love our country, look at my flag! Don't even mention the national anthem. We criticise anyone who won't wear a poppy but leave our ex-servicemen (whose sacrifice the poppy is meant to symbolise) to poverty and mental illness.

There's not much left to be proud of. But I am proud that I am English, I am European also and a member of Homo Sapiens just another monkey on a blue jewel spinning carelessly in the void. I don't need a flag on my Twitter profile to prove it.
Great summary 👍

But at the same time I think all this political posturing around the flag is a sign of an insecure government.
 
The high water mark for me and pride in my country, what it is and what it can be, was the opening ceremony of the 2012 Olympics. It portrayed us, slightly flatteringly even at the time, as an open welcoming people with a proud history but looking forward and outward. Now in 2021 we are much more inward looking and a lot of people seem to be aspiring to recreate a past that never was. We seem a country still oddly obsessed with WW2. A country that perpetuates privilege and shuns, punishes and stigmatises the poor, the disadvantaged and the other. A country led by a buffoon controlled by the rich.

There's not much to be proud of in 2021.

The Union Flag has never been more anachronistic. Union, what Union?

And yet I am proud to be English and European, I know that the youth of this country will make my country a better place, will make this country all that it can be. Our leaders are hiding behind those flags. Look at us, look at how much we love our country, look at my flag! Don't even mention the national anthem. We criticise anyone who won't wear a poppy but leave our ex-servicemen (whose sacrifice the poppy is meant to symbolise) to poverty and mental illness.

There's not much left to be proud of. But I am proud that I am English, I am European also and a member of Homo Sapiens just another monkey on a blue jewel spinning carelessly in the void. I don't need a flag on my Twitter profile to prove it.
This is very well said
 
The thing I find uncomfortable about patriotism in general, but specifically the style of Brexit patriotism, is that its divisive and that our countries strength seems to have to be at the expense of Europe.

I'd much prefer a government and a nation that builds relationships with other nation's, for the good of everyone.
 
If people want to get all teary eyed and start tugging their forelock whilst looking at the union flag then all power to them.

My issue is that the current government are cynically using the flag as a distraction whilst they take away our rights and freedoms; such as we are not allowed to peacefully protest if it causes any 'annoyance' to Priti Patel.
And also a cynical attempt by the Tories at distracting people away from the EU and Brexit
Create another talking point fills the pages rather than focus on the monumental fcuk up that is Brexit
 
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