Warnock was holding us back

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Chris_Boro said:
The team was a mess heading for certain relegation, most "competent" managers wouldn't go near us in that state, let alone pull them together to win those few games.

You can stay whatever after that, and most I agree with, but keeping us up in the state we were in was a minor miracle and Warnock has to be credited for that because he was the one to front up and did it, not these other invisible hypothetical competent managers.
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Grateful that he kept us up, but minor miracle? Come on, that's ridiculous.
He beat 3 equally poor teams plus a decent Millwall.
Lost 4 games including against rock bottom Hull.
Solid but not miraculous.
 
Chris_Boro said:
Yes it is, there's no context in posting a snap shot of the league table without also showing the form we were in.

In 8 games (half of which were against teams pushing for the playoffs) to turn around the team we had, playing the way we were and after one of the worst performances ever in getting beat 3 nil at home to Swansea after lockdown, added to those around us picking up points and form from nowhere was a minor miracle.

To state that any decent manager could do the same in those circumstances is just incorrect as most wouldn't even try letting alone succeed with our circumstances.

I'm not a fan of Warnock, his style or his actions but it was exactly what we needed at that time and for that has my respect.
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Posting the league table at the time he was appointed and pointing out that we weren’t in the bottom three is hyperbolic? Erm, ok then!

You’re just repeating the same things again. If you believe it was a minor miracle to save a team that wasn’t in the bottom three and with the squad we had by winning 4 out of the last 8 games then more power to you. I obviously don’t agree. There was nothing miraculous about it.
 
Rofesleg said:
M

Grateful that he kept us up, but minor miracle? Come on, that's ridiculous.
He beat 3 equally poor teams plus a decent Millwall.
Lost 4 games including against rock bottom Hull.
Solid but not miraculous.
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We had won 1 game in the previous 12 before that, in isolation we should have won the games we won and probably more but that's the whole point, we were playing like a team accepting relegation without a fight.
 
Adi_Dem said:
Posting the league table at the time he was appointed and pointing out that we weren’t in the bottom three is hyperbolic? Erm, ok then!

You’re just repeating the same things again. If you believe it was a minor miracle to save a team that wasn’t in the bottom three and with the squad we had by winning 4 out of the last 8 games then more power to you. I obviously don’t agree. There was nothing miraculous about it.
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No, you using it to exaggerate our position as anything other than dire given our form and that any competent manager could have done the same is however.

Lockdown allowed teams around us to reset and go again, it was a mini league of 9 games and we started with a home humiliation to Swansea. Given everything that was happening at the time and the darkness around the club, winning a game was a minor miracle let alone staying up.

Also, all of those game had to be played in just over 1 month.
 
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Chris_Boro said:
No, you using it to exaggerate our position as anything other than dire given our form and that any competent manager could have done the same is however.

Lockdown allowed teams around us to reset and go again, it was a mini league of 9 games and we started with a home humiliation to Swansea. Given everything that was happening at the time and the darkness around the club, winning a game was a minor miracle let alone staying up.

Also, all of those game had to be played in just over 1 month.
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No, I’m using the league position to demonstrate that it wasn’t a miraculous achievement. Nothing more and nothing less. Somehow you’re now arguing that winning a single game was miraculous!
 
Think it’s fairly obvious to all of us Warnock was holding us back, even though some will be reluctant to admit it. To have us sat in 5th after such a tough run of games is remarkable. Warnock himself admitted he was getting all he could out of this group of players, and this last few weeks has shown they clearly had so much more potential.

Frustrating that we didn’t make this change in the summer when everyone could see it was needed, or we would likely be in the top 2 now
 
parmoboy said:
He was doing well up until January, then completely lost his way.

I still can't understand why he brought in three wingers. Fans were buzzing at the time but my main thought was how is he going to fit them all into the same side. He spent the remainder of the season trying to figure that out himself, and ultimately failing to come up with a solution.
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Bolasie was brought in with a view to playing him as a striker, if we were going to make the playoffs we needed that extra bit of zing.. but we didn’t really have the money to make that happen, they didn’t take really get up to speed and we dropped points (no back up for Fry or Tavernier either) still a respectable finish given where we were the season before. Equal to the Mowbray/Karanka season with more players moving on/bigger rebuild.

Far to many fans underestimating the job that Warnock did here. Much better than Monk, Pulis, Woodgate. Very similar to Mowbray and his record was comparable with Karanka’s.

I do like Chris Wilder’s brand of football.. but Warnock built the squad that allows him to play like that for absolute buttons.

Lumley - picked up for nowt, still young

Dijksteel - thrown on the scrap heap by woodgate
Fry - was going backwards under woodgate
McNair - premierleage defender, championship midfielder

Jones - gave him his debut and managed expectations
Crooks - an absolute steal!
Howson - how many fans
Tavernier - did a fantastic job
Bola - thrown on the scrap heap by woodgate

Sporar - recommended by bolasie
Watmore - thrown on the scrap heap by sunderland (fools)

Sol Bamba - magnificen! saw a bit of Sol Bamba‘s body positioning and control in Dijksteel. fantastic addition to the squad and coaching set up.

The set up for the romantic Hollywood finish was there but it wasn’t to be, Warnock played his part but now Chris Wilder takes the leading role.

Great to see us getting managerial appointments right after having such a long run of absolute duffers. Onwards and upwards UTB!
 
Ex Footy Legs said:
Wilders brand of passing front foot organised football and developing this steely mentality is more alongside it is better than karankas brand of football never mind Warnock !
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Karanka believed in a slow build up in possession, Wilder wants to work it forward quicker 2 or 3 passes at the back to create the opportunity then drive forward. Karanka wanted a slow build up to get the whole team forward. Karanka wanted to always keep two CBs and two holding player deep to prevent counters, Wilder wants hie wingbacks high and one of his CBs to join, leaving two CBs and a deep midfielder. So Wilder commits more bodies forward, generally in a wide overload. I guess the key is that Wilder commits more bodies forward.

Without the ball Karanka and Wilder are very different. Karanka was all about delay the oppositions attempts to break so that we could regroup, into a line of 4 and 5 to block space to attack. Wilder wants to press high, win high and start the counter high. It's more risk, but can be more reward if done well.
 
BoroMart said:
Karanka believed in a slow build up in possession, Wilder wants to work it forward quicker 2 or 3 passes at the back to create the opportunity then drive forward. Karanka wanted a slow build up to get the whole team forward. Karanka wanted to always keep two CBs and two holding player deep to prevent counters, Wilder wants hie wingbacks high and one of his CBs to join, leaving two CBs and a deep midfielder. So Wilder commits more bodies forward, generally in a wide overload. I guess the key is that Wilder commits more bodies forward.

Without the ball Karanka and Wilder are very different. Karanka was all about delay the oppositions attempts to break so that we could regroup, into a line of 4 and 5 to block space to attack. Wilder wants to press high, win high and start the counter high. It's more risk, but can be more reward if done well.
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It’s why we love this game, there’s more than 1 way to skin a cat
 
GazC_MFC said:
I disagree, not every manager comes in and gets a reaction from the players. Warnock is renowned for his man management skills. He was the right man and the right time in terms of keeping us up.
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He's a short term fire fighter, and really hasn't been much more than that for 15 years, other than managing to get things to click at Cardiff. Even then they went up with 10 league defeats and then got sacked after yet another horrific performance in the prem league from a Warnock side. Has he ever lasted a full season in the top flight??
 
newyddion said:
Lumley - picked up for nowt, still young

Dijksteel - thrown on the scrap heap by woodgate
Fry - was going backwards under woodgate
McNair - premierleage defender, championship midfielder

Jones - gave him his debut and managed expectations
Crooks - an absolute steal!
Howson - how many fans
Tavernier - did a fantastic job
Bola - thrown on the scrap heap by woodgate

Sporar - recommended by bolasie
Watmore - thrown on the scrap heap by sunderland (fools)

Sol Bamba - magnificen! saw a bit of Sol Bamba‘s body positioning and control in Dijksteel. fantastic addition to the squad and coaching set up.
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Lumley isn't a kid, he's ok as a back up but I'd be looking to improve on him
Dijksteel took a few months to settle but actually looked fairly decent for Woodgate after injury and adjusting to the speed of the champ. Had a dodgy start though
Fry - was always a decent player, he didn't develop under Warnock at all
McNair yes, Warnock played him in his best position, I'll give him credit there.

Jones - dropped him
Crooks - decent signing and clearly a warnock type
Howson - kept playing him as a CB terrible decision
Tav - played him in CM did great then switched him to RWB breaking his confidence?!
Bola - he did pick him off the scrap heap, he was awful under Woody and played well under Warnock

Sporar - not a Warnock type and Warnock failed to get a tune out of him
Watmore - probably warnocks greatest success turning him into a goal machine for 6 months, but then lost faith in him

Bamba - only brought in as a squad player and adequate at that role
 
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