We want promotion, obviously, but being in the champo isn't all bad..

[Glover_elbow]

If clubs like brentford and Brighton we definitely can

Little old Brighton with their billionaire owner

Club	Estimated combined wealth of owners
Newcastle	$620 billion
Man City	$22 billion
Chelsea	$15.8 billion
Arsenal	$12.9 billion
Aston Villa	$11.9 billion
Liverpool	$9.8 billion
Fulham	$7.9 billion
West Ham	$7.3 billion
Wolves	$6.9 billion
Tottenham	$5.8 billion
Crystal Palace	$5.5 billion
Man United	$4.7 billion
Leeds	$4 billion
Everton	$2.9 billion
Leicester	$1.7 billion
Bournemouth	$1.6 billion
Brighton	$1.3 billion
Southampton	$1.3 billion
Nottingham Forest	$620 million
Brentford	$300 million

We have a brilliant manager in carrick but talk about competing like we did in the mclaren era is hugely optimistic given our financial starting point.

 

[atypical_boro]

Little old Brighton with their billionaire owner

Club	Estimated combined wealth of owners
Newcastle	$620 billion
Man City	$22 billion
Chelsea	$15.8 billion
Arsenal	$12.9 billion
Aston Villa	$11.9 billion
Liverpool	$9.8 billion
Fulham	$7.9 billion
West Ham	$7.3 billion
Wolves	$6.9 billion
Tottenham	$5.8 billion
Crystal Palace	$5.5 billion
Man United	$4.7 billion
Leeds	$4 billion
Everton	$2.9 billion
Leicester	$1.7 billion
Bournemouth	$1.6 billion
Brighton	$1.3 billion
Southampton	$1.3 billion
Nottingham Forest	$620 million
Brentford	$300 million

We have a brilliant manager in carrick but talk about competing like we did in the mclaren era is hugely optimistic given our financial starting point.

100%, and hence why it’s understandable to not feel totally buoyant about our chances in the PL if and when we get there.

 

[Anton_Berg]

If we go up yes we could end up as cannon fodder, but we could also end up like Brighton / Brentford etc

I’d like to think we would actually have a go this time round instead of only having an ageing Spanish striker in the opposition half at any time.

Ending up like Brighton and Brentford means 'mid-table'. We've been here before. It's actually an achievement, but it also costs a lot of money. At the same time it doesn't captivate the fans, and last time we were in that position was, I think, when Steve Gibson started to get disillusioned. Having spent a lot a money (before FFP came in) the attendances dwindled.
The only business model that works is the 'yo-yo'.

 

[Alzi]

Ending up like Brighton and Brentford means 'mid-table'. We've been here before. It's actually an achievement, but it also costs a lot of money. At the same time it doesn't captivate the fans, and last time we were in that position was, I think, when Steve Gibson started to get disillusioned. Having spent a lot a money (before FFP came in) the attendances dwindled.
The only business model that works is the 'yo-yo'.

I’m not sure you could describe Brighton as midtable this season, very much still in the hunt for Europe.

I don’t think Gibson got disillusioned, there was still investment after 2006, just terrible recruitment and squad management.

We basically paid more for inferior players to fill the squad whilst not giving the likes of Schwarzer the two year contract he wanted.

 

[Canyoudigit]

We've got an exciting young team and one of the best young and upcoming managers in the country, we need to build upon this by getting promoted and and then aiming to emulate teams like Brentford and Brighton.
Recruitment is going to be absolutely key to our success moving forward, Keiran Scott has so far impressed and will hopefully continue to do so.
I think we have learned lessons from the past and will hopefully target quality rather than quantity.

 

[Lottowyn]

I hate being second rate and that is what the Championship is.

I want to get back to having our players considered for the England team automatically. We have almost forgotten the buzz when we get players at Wembley. Downing was probably one of the last to be regularly thought of

I consider that Boro should be superior to about 10 of the monied clubs rated above.
Financially and skillwise, the gap between the Premier and the rest widens.
We could , in the not so distant future , have “parachute payments “ scrapped and even the opportunity to get in the Premier League removed.
Let’s get up before this happens.

 

[xxlshirts_fit_all]

Every summer we and most other Championship clubs have a number of key players coming to the end of their contracts or loans ending.

If and when we do lose the 3-4 loanees plus cash in on a few other senior players there’s no way we’d just leave the team as above, there’d be other key men have to come in if we are to stay competitive.

It’s a good starting point for a championship team…

Would need a couple of tweaks as a prem first team but would need a much improved squad to give the equivalent level of depth we have right now in the championship…

 

[Frozen Horse]

Little old Brighton with their billionaire owner

Club	Estimated combined wealth of owners
Newcastle	$620 billion
Man City	$22 billion
Chelsea	$15.8 billion
Arsenal	$12.9 billion
Aston Villa	$11.9 billion
Liverpool	$9.8 billion
Fulham	$7.9 billion
West Ham	$7.3 billion
Wolves	$6.9 billion
Tottenham	$5.8 billion
Crystal Palace	$5.5 billion
Man United	$4.7 billion
Leeds	$4 billion
Everton	$2.9 billion
Leicester	$1.7 billion
Bournemouth	$1.6 billion
Brighton	$1.3 billion
Southampton	$1.3 billion
Nottingham Forest	$620 million
Brentford	$300 million

We have a brilliant manager in carrick but talk about competing like we did in the mclaren era is hugely optimistic given our financial starting point.

Do those values include the club itself as an asset?

I'd guess most PL clubs are worth at least a couple of 100 million by virtue of being in the PL, but it's not as if the club can spend itself on the club, is it?

 

[Boroboyyo]

Nah , can’t wait to leave this **** league . Even if not this year, in the future .

Rose tinted glasses when you’re winning that it appears good, but horrible when you’re going nowhere . Which is us the majority of the time

I imagine many would be saying the same if winning constantly in the premier league too

 

[Boro_Interlinked]

When it gets tough in the Prem it's soul sapping. Southgate's team went 13 games without a win in one of our poor runs, Karanka's was 16 games no win. I see Forest just completed 11 games no win so far . Even Leicester just stopped a 10 game run , 8 losses and 1 draw. If you can prepare yourself for these levels of crushing football heartbreaks, then .. let's go

 

[coluka]

If I was offered promotion but instant relegation I’d rather just lose in the play-offs. The 2016/2017 season was my worst following the club, since I started following in the late 80s. We’d waited 7 years to go back up and when we got there we were so far out of our depth it wasn’t funny, and it was mostly down to attitude rather than quality.

This time we’ve waited 6 years and it would feel nearly as bad if we just humiliated ourselves again, and this time with VAR thrown into the mix too. I wouldn’t expect us to be coming top half or anything but if we went up with the attitude of just making up the numbers again I’d rather not bother. Hopefully Carrick wouldn’t be as egotistical as Karanka was, making out like us finishing 17th would be like Bill Shankly levels of achievement for him.

The worst thing about the 2016/17 season was the vile foul mouthed noise coming from some of our supporters in the second half of the season in particular and some of the bile spilled on the old board was shameful. The failure by the clubs hierarchy to invest in the required quality was the reason we were relegated, not the Head Coach.

We invested in the likes of Negredo, Fischer, Valdes, Espinosa, players who all had been recovering or had recently from serious injuries and so values and quality were lower. 2 players came from a just relegated club, namely a raw pacy right winger with no end product and a goalkeeper with the handling of Mr Clumsey. Then there was a Spanish left back who loved a foul throw whose best game was at CB. Chambers was probably our best loanee. Our marquee signing could run around a bit but failed to break any waves.

I used to say asking AK to coach that lot into a fit for purpose PL team was like giving a Joiner a plunger, spanner and some copper piping so he could install a new trophy cabinet. Then in the January when he begged for a pacy, creative playmaker and a winger was given Gestede, Bamford and Soisalo. On the last day of the January window Guedioura, all he had to offer was a name full of vowels. The type of player identified by the Head Coach was not delivered by the hierarchy who allowed themselves to be made fools of by at least 3 clubs stringing us along because it was in their interest to do so. To describe it as naivety from those on high does not seemingly do it justice. We were 16th in the league when the January window opened, but teams knew we were a one paced team with little cutting edge, we could not continue having to do so. AK realised that but the club failed to deliver, like they had done for so many seasons thereafter.

We were told after the Southampton game by the owner he knew what we needed to get back up, Many millions of pounds, dozens of players and 5 managers later, a light bulb has lit. To blame it all on the head coach was wrong then and it remains so in hindsight. He did his best with the tools supplied, but the tools were exactly that, tools.

 

[atypical_boro]

The worst thing about the 2016/17 season was the vile foul mouthed noise coming from some of our supporters in the second half of the season in particular and some of the bile spilled on the old board was shameful. The failure by the clubs hierarchy to invest in the required quality was the reason we were relegated, not the Head Coach.

We invested in the likes of Negredo, Fischer, Valdes, Espinosa, players who all had been recovering or had recently from serious injuries and so values and quality were lower. 2 players came from a just relegated club, namely a raw pacy right winger with no end product and a goalkeeper with the handling of Mr Clumsey. Then there was a Spanish left back who loved a foul throw whose best game was at CB. Chambers was probably our best loanee. Our marquee signing could run around a bit but failed to break any waves.

I used to say asking AK to coach that lot into a fit for purpose PL team was like giving a Joiner a plunger, spanner and some copper piping so he could install a new trophy cabinet. Then in the January when he begged for a pacy, creative playmaker and a winger was given Gestede, Bamford and Soisalo. On the last day of the January window Guedioura, all he had to offer was a name full of vowels. The type of player identified by the Head Coach was not delivered by the hierarchy who allowed themselves to be made fools of by at least 3 clubs stringing us along because it was in their interest to do so. To describe it as naivety from those on high does not seemingly do it justice. We were 16th in the league when the January window opened, but teams knew we were a one paced team with little cutting edge, we could not continue having to do so. AK realised that but the club failed to deliver, like they had done for so many seasons thereafter.

We were told after the Southampton game by the owner he knew what we needed to get back up, Many millions of pounds, dozens of players and 5 managers later, a light bulb has lit. To blame it all on the head coach was wrong then and it remains so in hindsight. He did his best with the tools supplied, but the tools were exactly that, tools.

Not sure if this is a personal dig Col, but maybe you remember some of our exchanges back in the good old days of “fansonline”.

I wasn’t one of the most vocal by any means, but by the February I wanted us to roll the dice, we waited til March and then appointed someone who was clearly not up to the task.

But everything I’ve read/listened to since then (and I am pretty podcast obsessed), interviews with players/staff from the time, has pointed to AK being way out of his depth in the PL too, which would explain his absurdly defensive behaviour that season, and his tendency to blame everyone but himself. We have since crucified Wilder for the same behaviour.

He’s also done absolutely nothing since he left to suggest that the promotion was all down to him either, he was one of a group of people who made it happen and gave us the only real decent 2 years we’ve had since our 2009 decline. He should take credit for that but there’s a large part of me that thinks there was a fair amount of beginner’s luck involved.

Anyway, I respect your opinion so not really up for winding back the years on this, but that’s my opinion anyway.

 

[coluka]

Not sure if this is a personal dig Col, but maybe you remember some of our exchanges back in the good old days of “fansonline”.

I wasn’t one of the most vocal by any means, but by the February I wanted us to roll the dice, we waited til March and then appointed someone who was clearly not up to the task.

But everything I’ve read/listened to since then (and I am pretty podcast obsessed), interviews with players/staff from the time, has pointed to AK being way out of his depth in the PL too, which would explain his absurdly defensive behaviour that season, and his tendency to blame everyone but himself. We have since crucified Wilder for the same behaviour.

He’s also done absolutely nothing since he left to suggest that the promotion was all down to him either, he was one of a group of people who made it happen and gave us the only real decent 2 years we’ve had since our 2009 decline. He should take credit for that but there’s a large part of me that thinks there was a fair amount of beginner’s luck involved.

Anyway, I respect your opinion so not really up for winding back the years on this, but that’s my opinion anyway.

No it wasn’t a dig at you, but at how many people blamed one man who carried the can, the one man who recognised what was needed and had a say, but wasn’t backed properly. It was all a bit scrooge like. Of course he (AK) made mistakes, he wasn’t a god. He clearly wasn’t a people person and has some responsibility for the events that unfolded (see WHU at home). Many culpable people, including players, and the hierarchy seemed to get a free pass from most fans though, it all soured so quickly and it culminated in the horror of the bet365 stadium In March.

 

[atypical_boro]

No it wasn’t a dig at you, but at how many people blamed one man who carried the can, the one man who recognised what was needed and had a say, but wasn’t backed properly. It was all a bit scrooge like. Of course he (AK) made mistakes, he wasn’t a god. He clearly wasn’t a people person and has some responsibility for the events that unfolded (see WHU at home). Many culpable people, including players, and the hierarchy seemed to get a free pass from most fans though, it all soured so quickly and it culminated in the horror of the bet365 stadium In March.

At that point though, it felt like the chairman who’d delivered so much (and had got us back to the promised land) was still fairly infallible. The 6 years since has, I think, given most fans a reality check about the ever-changing hierarchy/structure of the club. That said, the one currently in place is performing well and may well outperform the Karanka/Kenyon/Mendes regime (or whatever that was).

 

[parmoboy]

The Championship is rubbish. I can imagine it's an exciting league for any supporter whose club isn't in it but it's not for me personally.

If we don't go up we will almost certainly lose Akpom and it's going to be a challenge getting the loan lads back for another season. There's no guarantees we would be pushing for promotion next season, even with Carrick at the helm and I find it odd that some may not mind us being midtable, as being midtable would mean we would lose a fair amount of games.

It's great that we're averaging healthy crowds now but we've mainly had a half-empty stadium during our time in the Championship.

Give me a match vs Man City and a packed out Riverside ahead of playing Hull or Reading in front of 20,000 any day.

 

[coluka]

At that point though, it felt like the chairman who’d delivered so much (and had got us back to the promised land) was still fairly infallible. The 6 years since has, I think, given most fans a reality check about the ever-changing hierarchy/structure of the club. That said, the one currently in place is performing well and may well outperform the Karanka/Kenyon/Mendes regime (or whatever that was).

Oh, yes, I agree, I have no doubt you are right about how some fans held Mr G at that time. I also think the debacle of the Charlton game the season before and the issues with Mr Downing had a bearing too. It was only under Pulis it became clear that Downings contract beggered belief and imho Karanka was possibly managing it so the required starts did not quickly materialise to trigger the extension for his unrequited gift.

The current structure is in its early days but appears to be working quite well. I think that has more to do with the likes of Carrick as a coach and man manager and the excellent capture of Danks but time will tell. I suspect Danks influence helped Ramsey and Archer choose Boro over other teams and the January window was one of our best in a very long time. The next window (whatever league we are in) will be crucial. Carrick will have tremendous pulling power, as will our performance and style of play. However, the $64K question is… will there be the financial clout on offer to close the deals and capture the quality of talent that will be needed for purchases and loans to keep driving us forward?
Time will tell

 

[Cardiffdaffs]

Think its obvious we will have more depressing days that happy days in the EPL but we have to forgo that for the future of our Club to be honest.

 

[newyddion]

can we at least get to the playoffs before we start moaning about being in the premier league?