Chris_Boro
Well-known member
Think this would mean a narrow Labour majority (18) - or so a seat predictor site said
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Think this would mean a narrow Labour majority (18) - or so a seat predictor site said
View attachment 59894
I prefer the one you used
The Tories are only planning to make it personal, like the Jimmy Savile rubbish.I don't see how he comes out intact with what they will throw at him and he won't have the lefts support
No it's probably centre-left now.Is Labour still a left wing party?
I would defend Starmer with the same vigour that the centrists defended Corbyn against all the allegations thrown against him.No it's probably centre-left now.
But the question was, all tribalism aside, are you saying that left wing supporters wouldn't defend Starmer against such grotesque accusations?
I can't be bothered going over the starmer good v bad left v tory lite debate.Possibly or a hung parliament
I don't think anyone expects a Tory win, but the Tories have already announced they plan to make their whole election campaign about Keir Starmer. I don't see how he comes out intact with what they will throw at him and he won't have the lefts support
Labour are offering the same failed Thatcherite policies. You can't then claim or expect things to magically get better if you're going to offer the same policies but done in a slightly different way
Whilst I agree with you, I must point out that Johnson never appeared in debates either.I can't be bothered going over the starmer good v bad left v tory lite debate.
However, it really doesn't matter what sunak throws at starmer, or indeed the press. Sunak has to appear in debates and he is godawful. Tories will continue to fall in the polls, there isn't a recovery coming. The economic forecast is set to get worse, interest rates ecpected at 6.5% early next year. The covid enquiry and the publicly funded defence of whatsapp messages suggests there is some bad news coming there too.
Hung parliament, not at the next election there won't be.
Whilst I agree with you, I must point out that Johnson never appeared in debates either.
No it's probably centre-left now.
Johnson did appear in tv debates, not all of them, but a proportion. Furthermore, he had a poll lead, so didn't need to win folks over. Sunak finds himself 20 odd points behind and will have to appear in debates.Whilst I agree with you, I must point out that Johnson never appeared in debates either.
I don’t think you should be too depressed, the Labour government will be picking up the pieces after a populist and right wing Tory disaster show.Based on...?
It's a right wing party now. Between Reeves fiscal rules blocking any Keynesian spending to stimulate the economy, Starmer pledging against nationalising anything, Streetings talk about "reforming" (privatising) the NHS I genuinely don't see what anyone could point to as left wing policy wise.
If you mean there's still a few left/centre-left mayors, councillors, and MPs kicking about within this right wing party then yeah I guess that's something. All on borrowed time though.
If you mean the membership/party conference are still way to the left of the PLP then yes I'd agree with that. Even after the purges. But so what? The membership and conference can't force anything with the leadership.
I don’t think you should be too depressed,
No I didn’t mean that, as you say I meant not happy with him as a leader.I'm not depressed hopefully you meant depressed as a way of saying discouraged or displeased or something. And you don't actually assume people must be mentally unwell if they don't rate Starmer of all people.
No I didn’t mean that, as you say I meant not happy with him as a leader.
I just think that Labour is bigger than Starmer, he is only passing through.
If you can't make the arguments from inside the party then it isn't your party any more.Fair enough. There's some truth to that but leaders do leave an impression on the party. Say he does win an election or two and ends up having been leader for 15 years odd - his successor won't be from the left of the party. They've all been purged. So what are socialists supposed to do? Hang around for 20/30/40 years in the hope that eventually the party drifts back to a leader that isn't openly hostile to the left?
Labour has always been a coalition across the left hasn’t it?Fair enough. There's some truth to that but leaders do leave an impression on the party. Say he does win an election or two and ends up having been leader for 15 years odd - his successor won't be from the left of the party. They've all been purged. So what are socialists supposed to do? Hang around for 20/30/40 years in the hope that eventually the party drifts back to a leader that isn't openly hostile to the left?
You can't make arguments from inside the party for a range of reasons. Fear of deselection by some MP's, parachuting of favoured candidates of the leadership over locally picked and supported candidates. The disciplining and investigation of members for liking, sometimes the most innocuous of social media posts. Kicking out left wing Jewish members for being anti semitic. The changing of the criteria for selecting the Party leader, to the point that the current leader (who I voted for), wouldn't have been allowed to stand. It's no longer a level playing field for those viewed as being on the wrong side of the Party.If you can't make the arguments from inside the party then it isn't your party any more.
It is the same as The Conservatives not being conservative any more.
Labour was a broad church coalition of the left and center left until Starmer took over and began to systematically purge the left.Labour has always been a coalition across the left hasn’t it?